Tonights Game

**Vonsteinman** · 29 March 2009, 02:54 AM

Melbournehammer, agree with plenty of your points.

I think a bit too much time is being spent on Barlow. He can still prove himself if he gets back to what we saw of him in his first few games but agreed he would prefer to forget tonight.

Wonder about McVeigh's decision making when with ball in hand on a number of occasions. But, damn, he looked good more than once bursting out of the middle.

Hall never looked like it with one bloke on his arm and another dropping back in front.

Goodes - I think he'll get it right but just didn't seem to click tonight despite pundits putting him in the best.

Kirk - as someone else posted, generally consistent, but stood out for some glaring errors in the second half.

Bird - he is the rock upon which we build our future.

Richards, Bolton - Terrific efforts for the most part

LRT - If he puts in anywhere near that effort consistently over the next five months, some RWO posters can start preparing to eat some humble pie.

Grundy's two late goals were like prescription painkillers and I would love for him to stay up there but perhaps he doesn't have the presence to hold down a key forward position...

Too frustrating to judge the rest... thankfully I'll be on a beach in Bali when the majority of you are biting your nails in anticipation of meeting the premiers next week...

**msb** · 29 March 2009, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by 573v30

After that performance, I'm not sure on how the Swans are going to produce a win against the reigning Premiers, even if they aren't at full strength.

Dont even think that we will win next week! The Hawks will towel us unless there is some MAJOR turnaround on that effort last night. I cant pencil in a win till Round 6 against Richmond!

**thejones,s** · 29 March 2009, 08:04 AM

From what this guy saw its the same old game plan,,year after year,,,

**Dalai Lama** · 29 March 2009, 08:20 AM

cut the cheese

Cheese was off....
At lease Oscar the Crouch was consistent?

**SCGonasunnyday** · 29 March 2009, 08:34 AM

I thought Barlow's game against West Coast at Subiaco some time ago was one of the worst individual performance I had seen for a while - probably topped last night. The way he was just standing by whilst others were fighting tooth and nail for the ball was frankly un-swans like. I mean whatever our faults, the teams love for the tough stuff is not in dispute.

I was blown away in the 1st quarter, I was not expecting us to win, and yet to start like that reminded me of our 1st quarter in the 2005 PF. The way Moore, McVeigh and others moved with speed and picked out forwards, the slick handballs - I was buying in to us actually having a new game plan and also to our younger brigade having stepped up.

It almost made the rest of the game worse because we started so well. I can't understand why we went so defensive and flooded (yep call a spade a spade) from the end of the 1st quarter onwards.

Some special mentions:

LRT I've been a fan of for a long time and I can't understand his position in the team is still questioned by some. When a defender makes a mistake it can result in a goal, but they are human. But time and time again LRT makes the spoil or takes the mark. And a lot of the time when one on one - how often did we get the ball to Hall legitimately one on one in the goal square.

As others have said, back 6 fantastic.

Unfavourably, Buchanan's goal kicking is a liability, ironically given he is our grand final winning goal kicker. But he does not have the confidence to kick when he is 40 out (recall the holding the ball when just about any other player would have kicked for goal) and his set shots are woeful.

I thought Bevan was good and looks set for an even better year. Confidence to kick for goal from 60 out and his tackles really look like they hurt.

White was good eh?? Won plenty of taps, got possession himself, I think we have a 2nd ruckman who can only improve.

Bird, very classy. Wait about 18 months or so for the commentators to catch on.

I don't have too much to say about Hall, I think our flooding and forward line structure are to blame more than him.

**BigD** · 29 March 2009, 08:58 AM

One word - PATHETIC!!

They were switched on for the first quarter then they seemed to think the game ended at qtr time.

I predict we'll get annihilated next week.

**Nico** · 29 March 2009, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by 573v30

After that performance, I'm not sure on how the Swans are going to produce a win against the reigning Premiers, even if they aren't at full strength.

Or any team.

**Nico** · 29 March 2009, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by sharp9

Captain, you forgot that Goodes did nothing of note when the game was to be won.

Also White looks pretty good. Grundy is alright. Jolly doing his job fine. (except for all the frees and the times he taps it straight to the opposition for a goal...and gets used as a stepladder...hmmm....maybe he's not doing so well

)
Shaw really adds something.

And Bird...well as they say in the English Premier League "The Boy's a Bit Special."

All our defensive midfielders failed spectacularly tonight. yuck, yuck, yuck.

Worst of all we were smashed in contested possession and smashed in the tackle count.

we should never, ever attempt any sort of zone defence.

Defensive midfielders indeed. It doesn't work. In the last Q the 4 at a centre contest were. Bird, Crouch (ouch), Jolly and J Bolton. Bird got the clean clearance and the other 2 are still looking for the footy. Crouch spent his time all night holding Montagna. Blind Freddy can see that defensive midfielders don't work any more particularly when they are players who are no good at it. Crouch was a defensive defender now in his old age they think he can be a defensive midfielder. Why take a bloke into a centre bounce to just follow his man if has no clearance ability. Roos fell for it hook, line and sinker time and time again. GIVE ME A BREAK. This crap has been going on since at least 2007.

Lyon must have been having a quiet chuckle to himself.

Why does he insist on starting Bird on the bench at the start of every quarter? Why does he, when he has Bird on the ground start him on the wing at most centre bounces.

Why is that Jude Bolton who hasn't got a centre clearance since Jesus played full back for the Sinai seconds, is still the nominated number one centre bounce midfielder. He is in there nearly every time. GIVE ME A BREAK.

He had McVeigh in there in the first Q with spectacular results. What happened after that. Sheeesh.

**sharp9** · 29 March 2009, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Swans_Lad11

Sharp I'm glad we didn't attempt any zones tonight, the Saints would have just strolled right through the middle with the way the midfield went tonight. I would have been a massicare

I'm assuming you're being humourous here...the zoning back was the problem...that's why there were free men everywhere...no one was manning up, just manning space.....zones get defeated by moving players into the spaces and QUICKLY giving them the ball. That is what St. Kilda did to us and what Geelong do to everybody (including the Hawks....don't forget each of their last 2 games has been about 40 scores to 25).

When the Saints zone was slack we looked million bucks because we moved into space and delivered QUICKLY (compared to how fast the zone was operating). We are EASILY the worst team in the league against a decent zone and our own zoning is slow and putrid....down with Richmond and Melbourne...any reasonable team will slice through it.

Manning up from Centre Half Forward and back through the middle is when we look far, far more dangerous. Last year we had, by quite a large margin, the most number of scoreless quarters...even Richmond amd Essendon and Melbourne will eke out a goal or 2 in a bad quarter....but not us....we just get completely paralysed when under pressure....worse, the only way out of that pressure is to move the ball fast and WIN THE CONTEST DOWNFIELD, but when we are stopped we lose all confidence and can't even hold the ball in the forward half, let alone actually win the ball in a contest.

On the other hand, when we are free flowing (ie opposition pressure is poor) we ALSO win the contested ball...confidence methinks...and we score at a very good rate.

We have had a number of games (Bulldogs a couple of times too) where we score very early, stop scoring for a couple of quarters, then score heavily again when the game is over.

When you consider that all our best players (the veterans) had shockers (Hall, Goodes, Kirk, O'Keefe) then I have to think that there will remain a bit of optimism that we can, somehow, learn to bullock our way through to score when the defensive pressure is good. we must not, must not STOP when confronted by pressure. That's my solution. When there is no zig-zag ay through the zone we must kick it long to an EVEN contest and then win the ball (or at least hold it up). McQualter goal was a perfect example of how this should be done...he was a bit lucky the ball bounced the right way....BUT the key thing was that the numbers at the contest were even so there was a 50/50 chance of a score. Smart play. Somehow we manage to isolate Barry with 3 opponents..and then kick it to him. Dumb footy.

**sharp9** · 29 March 2009, 10:05 AM

Commentators are on to Bird...I think the quote was "Geez he's got some tricks, young Bird" he seems to dance Ablett like through traffic...or rather...he seems to have a way of standing still that causes other players to fall this way and that. LOVELY

**dimelb** · 29 March 2009, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by sharp9

I'm assuming you're being humourous here...the zoning back was the problem...that's why there were free men everywhere...no one was manning up, just manning space.....zones get defeated by moving players into the spaces and QUICKLY giving them the ball. That is what St. Kilda did to us and what Geelong do to everybody (including the Hawks....don't forget each of their last 2 games has been about 40 scores to 25).

When the Saints zone was slack we looked million bucks because we moved into space and delivered QUICKLY (compared to how fast the zone was operating). We are EASILY the worst team in the league against a decent zone and our own zoning is slow and putrid....down with Richmond and Melbourne...any reasonable team will slice through it.

Manning up from Centre Half Forward and back through the middle is when we look far, far more dangerous. Last year we had, by quite a large margin, the most number of scoreless quarters...even Richmond amd Essendon and Melbourne will eke out a goal or 2 in a bad quarter....but not us....we just get completely paralysed when under pressure....worse, the only way out of that pressure is to move the ball fast and WIN THE CONTEST DOWNFIELD, but when we are stopped we lose all confidence and can't even hold the ball in the forward half, let alone actually win the ball in a contest.

On the other hand, when we are free flowing (ie opposition pressure is poor) we ALSO win the contested ball...confidence methinks...and we score at a very good rate.

We have had a number of games (Bulldogs a couple of times too) where we score very early, stop scoring for a couple of quarters, then score heavily again when the game is over.

When you consider that all our best players (the veterans) had shockers (Hall, Goodes, Kirk, O'Keefe) then I have to think that there will remain a bit of optimism that we can, somehow, learn to bullock our way through to score when the defensive pressure is good. we must not, must not STOP when confronted by pressure. That's my solution. When there is no zig-zag ay through the zone we must kick it long to an EVEN contest and then win the ball (or at least hold it up). McQualter goal was a perfect example of how this should be done...he was a bit lucky the ball bounced the right way....BUT the key thing was that the numbers at the contest were even so there was a 50/50 chance of a score. Smart play. Somehow we manage to isolate Barry with 3 opponents..and then kick it to him. Dumb footy.

Comment of the thread for mine. A bit hard on Hall who got poor delivery, absolutely right about Bird.

**thejones,s** · 29 March 2009, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by BigD

One word - PATHETIC!!

They were switched on for the first quarter then they seemed to think the game ended at qtr time.

I predict we'll get annihilated next week.

well for one this guy is happy in melbourne were i can turn the tele off rather than sitting thru another AGONISING LOSS .....

And yes this year is showing signs of the beginning of the end ..

**satchmopugdog** · 29 March 2009, 11:11 AM

There was definitely zoning on our behalf. Our back 3 were up on the defensive 50 line defending and area with Richards to help when the zone was set up.

At times it worked well but a couple of times we were killed by our inability to win one-on-one contests (often by a matter of centimetres as I have stated in another thread.) Those of you who play another sport that uses zoning such as basketball/hockey/soccer would know you rely on others to win their area and you get killed when they don't and it quickly turns into a 1 on 2 situation.

**2005** · 29 March 2009, 12:46 PM

Been at the Swans Kids Clinic this morning where suprisingly was a very good turnout by supporters with all the kids having a great morning.

Not even going to read the thread.
You pretty much know who will say what about who and put the boots in or say its the umpiring or that St Kilda are crap and its just the 1st game.
Lst night was so dissaponting and while Liz made a thread to look at the positives, I really honestly couldnt think of any.
When you cant kick a goal for nearly 90 mins on a perfect night against moderate opposition , somethings wrong

There are 2 GLARING standouts with the SWANS right now :

1 . PACE : We are so ,so slow and predictable
We will get carved up all year in the department especially in the middle
Watch Carlton ,Geelong ,Hawthorn ,Crows and you will get the drift.

2 : KIDS
We are They ?? Who are they ??? When will they deliver ????

How can a Jeff Gartlett,Mitch Robinson,Sam Jacobs, (Carlton) play so early @ so well on the big stage.
Taylor Walker & Jason Petrenko (Crows ) standouts in there Ist games yesterday after being drafted this year.
We must stop this premiership credits things if it does exist.
From our picks last year, it looks like none will play again in 09.
It just really @@@@s me that these kids are not being exposed enough.
Whilst our recruiting of rejects has been Exellent our recritment of kids has been ordinary to say the least. Adelaide who pretty much have our ideas on not bottoning out do have managed to pick up great kids who all look ready to play and have played . Vespa is our only shining light at the moment.

Its easy to be critical after performances like last night, though I rekon its where we sit and after talking to a few people in the right places this morning I rekon we are really going to be in for some tough times .

Seriously we would struggle to beat Richmond right now.

**Nico** · 29 March 2009, 06:27 PM

Like everyone else has said last night was embarrasing.

Bird for mine was our best along with LRT and C Bolton. Other genuine contributors were Mattner, Richards, Jolly, Shaw, White (when he was on) MCVeigh early, and that's about it.

Stats; how they can lie.

Goodes 21, ranking points 108, slaughtered the footy and got junktime stats
Bevan 19, Ranking points 90, good early but towelled up in the 2nd half and looked slow.
Kirk 24, 24 poor disposals, actually woeful, sloppy and scrubby
Malceski 18, soft, soft, soft, no defensive skills and is adverse to hard footy, real concern where he is at. Just as soft as Barlow was.
White only 6, does not reflect his top palming to position in the first quarter.

Stats that don't lie.

Crouch 10, 8 uncontested, 3 frees against, 4 clangers, 0 clearances. How does that translate to 80% effective?

Observations

LRT gives a genuine tall key position backman. Finally has shrugged off the foot injury. Worked his bum off and one of only a few prepared to run.

Backline in general. Still only had 12 goals against.

Buchanan finished. He set the scene for his game in the 1st Q when he selfishly tried to beat 2 players 20 metres out when he had a player on his own screaming for the ball 10 metres out. "Ball", dope. Kicking for goal is hopeless and refused to chase. Has become a bludger of large proportions. Doesn't look interested. Better off developing his clothing range. At least his partner had a go.

Craig Bird as predicted is quality. Just hope the coaches realise this and use him accordingly instead of starting on the bench each Q and on the wing at centre contests.

Kirk although sloppy usually starts a season slow.

Jesse White, excuse me but why waste this talent with a lousy 49% ground time.

Grundy presented well in the 1st Q but by mid second Q was in the backline. Puzzling.

O'Keefe. His was either not ready or didn't come to play. Someone remind him please he has another 4 years on his contract. Looked disinterested.

Jack, didn't work hard at all.

When we ran out after half time the body language was ordinary. A few knee lifts and a jog where as the Saints came out bouncing. Were we lacking fitness?

It's convenient for the coaches to blame the players but there was a fair slice of NFI from the bench last night.