Swans vs Cats Game Thread

[Triple B]

They do play under a different rulebook in regards to handballing than most. Seriously at least half a dozen clear throws today, most weeks in fact, are let go by the scumps in the name of letting the free flowing Cats show their wares.

No doubt they are a class above, but a throw is a throw.

[Nico]

Stop blaming Bevan a few other players had crap games in defence LRT and waht about C Bolton hewas ripped up early and it was hard to defend against such a potent forward line when forward line has so much space remember Bevan went on him because C Bolton was getting taken to the cleaners.

Bevan did have a shocker but why in hell was he put onto Johnson in the second Q. People say Bolton was getting towelled up, but at the point he as moved off him he only had 1 goal. He kicked 3 on Bevan in an appalling mismatch that could only be blamed on the coaches box.

I think Johnson only kicked one more for the game when Bolton went back on him.

[Nico]

They do play under a different rulebook in regards to handballing than most. Seriously at least half a dozen clear throws today, most weeks in fact, are let go by the scumps in the name of letting the free flowing Cats show their wares.

No doubt they are a class above, but a throw is a throw.

They play under a different rule book, full stop. There were so many missed frees to us it wasn't funny. Some obvious frees were within 5 metres of the umpires. Mattner got one high in the last Q that was so obvious. It was that high there is no way an umpire's sight could have been obscured or blind sided.

What about when Taylor was atckled near the boundary, heaps of prior opportunity and he disposed of the ball by bouncing it with one hand. Everyone saw it but the umpire who was 5 metres away.

[Nico]

Went to the game and we clearly beaten by a very good side. Some say they should have beaten us by more but if our delivery into the forward line was of any standard at all we should not have gone down by 50 points.

Our skills were as bad as they could possibly be. Grubbers to leads, fumbles, nothing handpasses, kicking to small targets and very, very poor forward line pressure. Geelong just took the ball from our forward line with little pressure.

Observations

Our midfield is horribly slow and work between the 50 metres arcs. Rarely do they go inside 50 metres either end but nor do they present when we come out of defence. Goodes is the exception. It seems to me our smalls only offer anything at stoppages and we have fallen right away in that area.

When will the penny drop that McVeigh is wasted as a tagger.
When will we start to take the odd risk and make some play instead of the standard, mark, hand ball, hand ball, hand ball, crap kick. Watch Geelong, they tap on from their feet, in contests and overhead, they kick ahead of players to run onto the ball and they kick to a leading players offensive side of their body etc etc etc.

I read somwhere that Mike Pyke played well. Not at the game I watched. Yep he competed in the ruck and I think had a mark and a couple of kicks and handpasses.
Did someone say Buchanan was in our best? If he was then we were worse than I first thought. I thought he was rubbish. Tried hard, but rubbish.
Meredith continues to show signs. Should he now go into the midfield?
Shaw was outstanding again and was very good out of the centre in the last Q. Runs all day has pace, goes staright at the ball, has good quick clearance; well hello that's what is missing in the midfield.
Goodes worked his guts out all game.
Moore did a few things but I don't recall him winning a one on one and once the ball went he didn't work a whole lot. I have been a rap for him but I am having doubts about his motor. Just doesn't do enough.
Grundy, out of his depth today. Might be a lead up forward only and that's a worry because we don't kick to those types.
Symptomatic of how we play dumb footy; 15 points down 10 minutes into the 3rd Q, Mcveigh wins a free on the wing and instead of playing on our momentum and moving it deep forward he goes back to Bevan, who drops the mark (awful call, awful kick, and was marked) turnover for goal, game over.
Our midfield is a dilemma. We have the olds and bolds in Kirk and Bolton who you might say are playing well enough to keep their spots but offensively offer us zilch. You have on the other hand Shaw who has pace and "finds" the footy out of the centre and can kick. McVeigh is the same. Meredith has genuine skills and can kick and will only get better. Goodes we know about. Bird although not quick has good skills and knows how to find the footy.
So is it time to move on from the negative stopper mindset at centre bounces and introduce a complete new mix. Ideal but not likely from the coaches bench.
My frustration and that of many at the game is that are playing group isn't that bad but something has to change and fast. We have dropped back to "try hards" with an increasing number of passengers and poor skills.
I think it's time we started to rotate a few more seconds players like Laidlaw and Currie to see how they go because on today we can't make the finals and we are at that point of having nothing to lose. You never know we might be a better team for it.

[ugg]

When will the penny drop that McVeigh is wasted as a tagger.

I'm pretty sure Ling was tagging him and then McVeigh was moved forward in the 2nd half in an attempt to shake the tag.

When will we start to take the odd risk and make some play instead of the standard, mark, hand ball, hand ball, hand ball, crap kick. Watch Geelong, they tap on from their feet, in contests and overhead, they kick ahead of players to run onto the ball and they kick to a leading players offensive side of their body etc etc etc.

And go against the team ethos? Unbloody likely.

I read somwhere that Mike Pyke played well. Not at the game I watched. Yep he competed in the ruck and I think had a mark and a couple of kicks and handpasses.

He won plenty of clean hitouts, looked lost with the ball, but that was all expected. Not sure what you were expecting. Pyke over White - better at the hitouts, White over Pyke - more versatile. The coaches will have to decide which attributes they want in the 2nd ruckman.

Did someone say Buchanan was in our best? If he was then we were worse than I first thought. I thought he was rubbish. Tried hard, but rubbish.

Probably tries too hard, and tries to do things that he isn't capable of.

Meredith continues to show signs. Should he now go into the midfield?

Only if you want him to get crunched, his skills are terrific but at this early stage he is too slight to play any long periods in the midfield. Will be terrific in 3-4 years.

Shaw was outstanding again and was very good out of the centre in the last Q. Runs all day has pace, goes staright at the ball, has good quick clearance; well hello that's what is missing in the midfield.

One word: run. He's prepared to do it, and isn't getting much support. Speaking of support, he also gave a couple of good shepherds, something

Moore did a few things but I don't recall him winning a one on one and once the ball went he didn't work a whole lot. I have been a rap for him but I am having doubts about his motor. Just doesn't do enough.

Yep totally agree. Gets outpositioned too easily and goes missing for long periods. Wonder what his TOG was like

Grundy, out of his depth today. Might be a lead up forward only and that's a worry because we don't kick to those types.

We'll have to persist with him, key forwards take time to mature.

So is it time to move on from the negative stopper mindset at centre bounces and introduce a complete new mix. Ideal but not likely from the coaches bench.

ROK's move to the midfield today was great, he was definitely intent on gettign the ball out instead of jumping stacks on the pack. I hope this move will be at least semi-permanent.

[giant]

Seemed to be quite a bit squabbling in the team today - can understand the forwards getting a bit shorty given some of the decision-making with kicks inside 50 but they didn't look the "crawl over broken glass for me mates" Bloods of old.

[top40]

The signs are there in this game that Sydney are now a very long way from the top. In recent years, (say in 2007, they only lost to the Cats by three goals at Kardinia), they were at least competitive for most of the game.

The Round 9 2009 lost to Geelong represents the equal second worst lost for Sydney in the 163 games under Paul Roos. The worst was a 71 point lost to the eventual Premier, Port Adelaide at Football Park in Round 12, 2004, when the Swans were vastly undermanned, missing Ball, Barry, O'Loughlin, and Schauble. They also lost by 51 at the G against St Kilda in the same year in a semi final, when two key players, Williams and Matthews went down around half time.

What concerns me is that Sydney in this game were not particularly undermanned, and there was no mid game injuried players. AND, Geelong did not have a fit Gary Ablett Junior!.

[liz]

The signs are there in this game that Sydney are now a very long way from the top. In recent years, (say in 2007, they only lost to the Cats by three goals at Kardinia), they were at least competitive for most of the game.

But that's not "news" is it. I think we all knew before 2pm yesterday afternoon that the current Swans side is a long way from the top. Twelve other sides are in exactly the same boat, and based on their 2009 form to date, it is arguable that Hawthorn and the Dogs belong in this boat too.

This current Geelong side is an awesome combination of highly skilled players in their prime playing years, very well drilled/structured and supremely confident. It is a potent mix and only the Essendon side of 1999-2001 comes close over the past decade. Hard, determined and mentally tough as the Lions team of 2001-4 was, it wasn't close to this current Geelong team in terms of skilled dominance. The scary thing is that it is hard to see Geelong dropping off as Essendon did so quickly. They were able to add Selwood and Hawkins to the roster as recently as 2007 - a worrying thing for the other 15 clubs.

[Legs Akimbo]

But that's not "news" is it. I think we all knew before 2pm yesterday afternoon that the current Swans side is a long way from the top. Twelve other sides are in exactly the same boat, and based on their 2009 form to date, it is arguable that Hawthorn and the Dogs belong in this boat too.

This current Geelong side is an awesome combination of highly skilled players in their prime playing years, very well drilled/structured and supremely confident. It is a potent mix and only the Essendon side of 1999-2001 comes close over the past decade. Hard, determined and mentally tough as the Lions team of 2001-4 was, it wasn't close to this current Geelong team in terms of skilled dominance. The scary thing is that it is hard to see Geelong dropping off as Essendon did so quickly. They were able to add Selwood and Hawkins to the roster as recently as 2007 - a worrying thing for the other 15 clubs.

I think you are doing Brisbane an injustice. A midfield including the fab four of Akermanis, Voss, Black, Lappin at the height of their powers was formidable. We'll judge this team based on premieships thanks, not home and away wins.

As for the Swans, realistically, I don't think too many expected a win yesterday. However, the substance of the loss was concerning in that some of our 2nd tier mid-aged players are being exposed as potential list cloggers due to deficiencies in their game. Actually, it's not just that game, it's a number of recent games. If we accept the Swans are in rebuilding mode, the the following 'starting 22' players have big question marks against their name...

1. Amon Buchanan - disposal is sub-standard
2. Luke Ablett - has lost a yard of pace
3. Nick Malceski - injury has clearly taken a heavy toll.
4. Paul Bevan - just a lack of natural talent

You could add Moore to that list in a way in that as good as he is when on song, he is ultimately a limited player in many ways because of his poor aerobic fitness. I like Moore as a player but I am starting to think he is playing in the wrong era.

My point is not that these guys are duds, but that the number of games they play from here is going to be determined by the speed of development of younger players as much as their own form. However, if younger guys don't come through, we need them all to find their best form if we don't want to slide big time.

[satchmopugdog]

[QUOTE=liz;437381]But that's not "news" is it.

This current Geelong side is an awesome combination of highly skilled players in their prime playing years, very well drilled/structured and supremely confident. QUOTE]


When you do an analysis of the playing lists in the footy record and look at the birth years, plus take it as a given that men are in their prime at 25, Geelong have stars at that age.

We had Goodes 25 in 2005 plus the Boltons,Davis maybe Fosdike.

For the equivalent age this year we only have LRT, Playfair and 2 others I think(haven't got the record in frontof me)and they are not stars like the Geelong 25 year olds.

Looking to the future the 25 year olds of the future don't exhibit any class until we get to Vespremi and Meredith. It is going to be a long wait but that is what the draft is all about.

[top40]

[QUOTE=satchmopugdog;437471]

But that's not "news" is it.

It is going to be a long wait but that is what the draft is all about.

Unfortunately the market in Sydney does not tolerate bottoming out sides. The Swans face the usual problem here. They can not get early draft picks unless they fall towards the bottom on the ladder, or they unusually trade big time for early draft picks as they did in 1998. The former means a badly impacted market will occur, where average SCG crowds and Sydney membership both fall to a financially disasterous 15,000. The latter is simply not feasible in 2009.

The Swans best option is to get a diamond among the rough, eg an Andrew Dunkley who was picked up at draft number 56 in 1991, an Adam Goodes who was picked up at draft number 43 in 1997, or a Ryan O'Keefe (no. 56 in 1999), or an Adam Schnieder (no. 60 in 2002)

[robamiee]

just plain poor decision and skill set..
We should start to worry about WCE next week, they would actually think they could beat us...

Also is Joel Selwood in his 2nd year or third year?
i thought i heard the commentators say in his 2nd year a great honor to be tagged by Kirky..
if so how the hell did he get through the draft to such a late pick by Geelong..
great yng player..

we need to start getting some yng pace midfielders into the side and we need to do it now. we know we aren't going to do anything if we even make to september, set up for next year as the draft even though GC have the picks has been said as a poor draft year they r3eckon

[ScottH]

Speaking of Skill and decisions. Wasn't this new pommy bloke gunna fix that ???