Paul Kelly, OUR Paul Kelly, considering GW job

[Bear]

The Swans were not solely a Sydney team at inception...they were a team for NSW. I grew up in the middle of the Hunter Valley (League Heartland) and started following the Swans seriously while living in Newcastle. I think it's safe to assume if you showed any interest in Aussie Rules living in Sydney you'd be following the Swans after 30 years in their current form.

I appreciate your second point - and have held the same view for the same reasons...unfortunately the more I think about it I go in the opposite direction. I'm sure over time they will become established but established like Collingwood or established like North Melbourne?

In reality, the Swans are an eastern suburbs/north shore/inner city team. This is reflected in the membership, their sponsors and their brand.

Just because you're in the <1% of people from or who have lived in Newcastle who are a Swans member doen't make it a Newcaste/ NSW/ Port Macquarie/ Eden/ Mudgee/ Parramatta/ Blacktown team.

The AFL knows this so has created a team that will actually appeal to GWS. Our team does not.

[liz]

In reality, the Swans are an eastern suburbs/north shore/inner city team. This is reflected in the membership, their sponsors and their brand.

What data about the Swans membership / supporter base do you have access to to support that assertion?

[Industrial Fan]

BFW re: Kelly.

Great for the code.

[hot potato]

let bogans be bogans. over the next 20 years, 'the west' will continue to change as it has with increased immigration of people with no affiliation to either league or afl (but possibly soccer) and a general socioeconomic lift. Afl is a great game and as usual, the bogans on here can't handle the thought that people out west are at least as diverse as the east and are just as likely to convert as the east was 30 years ago

Sensible post.
Lets embrace two teams in Sydney, Melbourne has 10 (well 9 + Cats).

HP

[laughingnome]

(well 9 + Cats).

Pah. Just call it 10.

[timthefish]

What data about the Swans membership / supporter base do you have access to to support that assertion?

most people i know converted after their first live game (definitely the case with me). it stands to reason that there is going to be a bias towards the east as the matches were played there almost exclusively for 25 years. would actually be interesting to see the numbers though: numbers the afl would have plenty of i imagine.

[Bloody Hell]

In reality, the Swans are an eastern suburbs/north shore/inner city team. This is reflected in the membership, their sponsors and their brand.

Just because you're in the <1% of people from or who have lived in Newcastle who are a Swans member doen't make it a Newcaste/ NSW/ Port Macquarie/ Eden/ Mudgee/ Parramatta/ Blacktown team.

The AFL knows this so has created a team that will actually appeal to GWS. Our team does not.

Alot of assumption and making up fact there.

Having attended a couple of pre-season games at No.1 Sports Ground (1999-2002???) there were a few thousand that turned up to that...prior to the premiership. How many attend pre season? Like to know where you get your less than 1%.

So the fact that GWS doesn't like AFL is because of the Swans and a different team will fix that???

The main point I was making was in reference to marketing and television broadcast. Swans games were always broadcast every week during prime viewing hour on free to air...probably starting in about the mid 90's...a real effort was made and it wasn't limited to Sydney.

[Kanga]

Sensible post.
Lets embrace two teams in Sydney, Melbourne has 10 (well 9 + Cats).

HP

[goswannie14]

Pah. Just call it 10.

You can't do that, Geelong is no more a part of Melbourne than Newcastle is a part of Sydney, or the Gold Coast is part of Brisbane.

[Bear]

What data about the Swans membership / supporter base do you have access to to support that assertion?

Apart from it being obvious (see below), I've worked with a previous membership manager on different projects and seen the breakdown.

If you're suggesting that >1% of GWS (let alone regional NSW) are members of the Swans, that's 20,000 members from GWS alone. We don't even have that many in NSW as a whole!

[Bear]

Alot of assumption and making up fact there.

Having attended a couple of pre-season games at No.1 Sports Ground (1999-2002???) there were a few thousand that turned up to that...prior to the premiership. How many attend pre season? Like to know where you get your less than 1%.

So the fact that GWS doesn't like AFL is because of the Swans and a different team will fix that???

The main point I was making was in reference to marketing and television broadcast. Swans games were always broadcast every week during prime viewing hour on free to air...probably starting in about the mid 90's...a real effort was made and it wasn't limited to Sydney.

There were no assumptions.

LOL, so you base your stats on one pre-season game at MSG. Did you take the stats on where the people came from?

No, GWS isn't into AFL because it has never had real exposure to AFL in any meaningful sense. Just like Westfield builds shopping centres in Bondi Junction and Parramatta, the AFL needs to have a product convenient to and relevant to people in Blacktown/ Parra/ etc.

Ok, so you're talking about TV now. You're hard to keep up with!

[liz]

Apart from it being obvious (see below), I've worked with a previous membership manager on different projects and seen the breakdown.

If you're suggesting that >1% of GWS (let alone regional NSW) are members of the Swans, that's 20,000 members from GWS alone. We don't even have that many in NSW as a whole!

But you can apply that line of thought to the population of Sydney as a whole. Clearly with a membership of approx 20k, it represents a very small portion of the population of any area of Sydney.

RWO may or may not be representative of the Swans membership or supporter base but there is no inherent reason to believe it isn't. The geographical spread of Sydney based posters here seems quite evenly spread across the city.

I am with you in the sense that IF GWS is a success, it will be great for the code in NSW and therefore great for the Swans. I don't think, though, that it is a fait accompli that it will be. In particular, I think the assumption that there is a significant untapped market in western Sydney who have shunned the game purely because the Swans are based in the East is speculation, rather than tried and tested fact.

I understand that the role of GWS will be to build support over a period of time - not even the most optimistic supporters believe there is a potential membership of 20k waiting to sign up in 2012. And the strongest argument in my eyes for starting the venture sooner rather than later is that it puts another set of resources in the city to spend umpteen hours at kids' clinics helping the game grow.

[wearebloods]

IF GWS is a success, it will be great for the code in NSW and therefore great for the Swans

In a nutshell, this is what all Swans fans should be focussing on...our future depends on it.

[Bear]

But you can apply that line of thought to the population of Sydney as a whole. Clearly with a membership of approx 20k, it represents a very small portion of the population of any area of Sydney.

RWO may or may not be representative of the Swans membership or supporter base but there is no inherent reason to believe it isn't. The geographical spread of Sydney based posters here seems quite evenly spread across the city.

I am with you in the sense that IF GWS is a success, it will be great for the code in NSW and therefore great for the Swans. I don't think, though, that it is a fait accompli that it will be. In particular, I think the assumption that there is a significant untapped market in western Sydney who have shunned the game purely because the Swans are based in the East is speculation, rather than tried and tested fact.

I understand that the role of GWS will be to build support over a period of time - not even the most optimistic supporters believe there is a potential membership of 20k waiting to sign up in 2012. And the strongest argument in my eyes for starting the venture sooner rather than later is that it puts another set of resources in the city to spend umpteen hours at kids' clinics helping the game grow.

We'll agree to disagree on most of that.

There is a difference between actively "shunning" something and not engaging with something that isn't relevant and meaningful. E.g. I don't think people in Blacktown "shun" Westfield in BJ, but they don't often go there for various reasons.

I think you and the doomsayers will be quite shocked in the next 12-24 months to see that the 20,000 on start up is in fact quite achievable.

It won't be long before we find out.

I also believe that GWS will have an influence in growing OUR membership. One of the key reasons for that is the promotion of the local rivalry, and the fact we'll be far better placed to properly resource and focus on the schools, clubs, families, etc who are more predisposed to a Swans membership rather than wasting limited resources out west. The only area that will be really fought over is the Hills district. GWS will likely win that fight though due to geographic proximity... and typical bogans they are not.

[liz]

There is a difference between actively "shunning" something and not engaging with something that isn't relevant and meaningful. E.g. I don't think people in Blacktown "shun" Westfield in BJ, but they don't often go there for various reasons.

I pretty much shun Westfield BJ despite the fact I used to live almost next door and still walk past it every day on my way home from work!