Geelong in game discussion

[bodgie]

There are more benefits in 'bottoming out' than just raw first round picks. There is greater flexibility in trades and second round pick-ups. Out of form stars get to have a rest prolonging career and freshness. You can experiment a bit more with structure and personell. Half hearted fans can take a break (they seem to be anyway).

Our injuries to key players blurs the issue (as did early hot form against bottom teams) but the last few years of 'finals before develpment' has delayed our progress anyway. ROK and McVeigh are stuffed. Mumford is looking tired. Kirk should be playing off the bench. Goodes played out of position so we could retain the tall-forward formula. Watching him try to lift the team almost single-handed is almost sad. Young players look nervous, tentative waiting to be dropped.

I don't say we should bottom, but the drive to get into the bottom quarter of the eight each year is not building a premiership contending team.

[aardvark]

But who have each team got that makes a significant difference? OK, St. Kilda have Riewoldt and Goddard from bottoming out. I'll give you that. But Collingwood have Thomas and Didak. Good players, but not integral to the side. They'd be a premiership threat with or without them. The Dogs? Cooney and Griffen. Maybe I don't always give Cooney the credit he deserves, but I really don't think those two players would affect the Dogs' chances that much, at least opposed to similar players taken a few picks later.

So what about Scott Pendelbury Pick 5 overall and Mudpies second pick in the 2005 draft after Priority pick Thomas at pick 2. I'm sure most pies supporters would consider him pivotal to their finals chances.

[aardvark]

I don't say we should bottom, but the drive to get into the bottom quarter of the eight each year is not building a premiership contending team.

Yes ...and trying to hold on to fickle Sydney fans is a poor reason for doing it.

[RogueSwan]

I'm shocked at the number of posters suggesting "bottoming out" which is just a euphemism for tanking.

[Vonsteinman]

Yes ...and trying to hold on to fickle Sydney fans is a poor reason for doing it.

Holding on to fans, increasing membership, increasing attendances, etc are all very good reasons for not tanking. So much income relies on these figures staying healthy. If the club bottoms out, the fans drop off, the sponsors tend to look elsewhere. All of a sudden the club's debts start mounting again.... etc, etc.

[aardvark]

Holding on to fans, increasing membership, increasing attendances, etc are all very good reasons for not tanking. So much income relies on these figures staying healthy. If the club bottoms out, the fans drop off, the sponsors tend to look elsewhere. All of a sudden the club's debts start mounting again.... etc, etc.

Finishing 7 - 12 for a long period of time would have the same effect IMO. and we have the added bonus that the AFL will not let a Sydney team fold.

[jono2707]

I'm shocked at the number of posters suggesting "bottoming out" which is just a euphemism for tanking.

I would like to think that I support a team that tries to win every game, and doesn't tank or bottom out or whatever else people want to call it. If we have a poor season or two here or there because of injuries/ a thin list etc, then well and good, but to go out to lose games for the purpose of getting better draft picks will never, ever be acceptable in my book. I would have thought that integral to a bloods culture is to scratch and fight and give 110% to winning every single game we play.

[Go Swannies]

Finishing 7 - 12 for a long period of time would have the same effect IMO. and we have the added bonus that the AFL will not let a Sydney team fold.

So you don't think the Swans current list - with retirees and tops ups but based around the nucleus at present - could develop into a premiership team but rather will always be Richmond-like mediocre to poor and aiming for 9th?

[aardvark]

I'm shocked at the number of posters suggesting "bottoming out" which is just a euphemism for tanking.

I dont think thats quite right. Tanking is deliberately playing people out of position or not playing your better players even when they are available to deliberately lose games. Essendon and Richmond have bottomed out because they have invested in giving their young players game time at the expense of their borderline seniors thus developing their youngsters for the future. This has the added bonus of making them eligible for higher draft picks which becomes a win-win situation in the long term for the club. This is the direction I wish our club had taken this year but unfortunately IMO it hasn't happened.
Having said that Melbourne definitely tanked and so did Carlton.

[Mr Magoo]

Thats one thing I like about this years comp , no one stands to benefit from tanking due to the Sunny Boys getting all the low draft picks so no one is tanking. In any other year Port for example would have almost been encouraged to tank once Williams was gone but with no incentive to, they are fighting out the finish. Gives further kudos to a lottery type draft that allows say anyone from 8-16 to get the top draft pick.

[aardvark]

So you don't think the Swans current list - with retirees and tops ups but based around the nucleus at present - could develop into a premiership team but rather will always be Richmond-like mediocre to poor and aiming for 9th?

We will probably have some salary cap room to buy a couple of players due to retirements. A lot depends on who we can pick up but ATM we really only have 1 A Grade player, Goodsy. Its hard to see us making top 6 unless we find or develop a few more to go with him.
I will be really happy to be proved wrong......

[Vonsteinman]

We will probably have some salary cap room to buy a couple of players due to retirements. A lot depends on who we can pick up but ATM we really only have 1 A Grade player, Goodsy. Its hard to see us making top 6 unless we find or develop a few more to go with him.
I will be really happy to be proved wrong......

Define A grade mate. O'Keefe (although a little out of form lately), Malceski (tipped by some as AA this year), Hannebery potentially (as a favourite for Rising Star), Mumford is young but in the top handful of ruckman going around. There are not many teams that have more than a handful of "A Grade" players. Geelong does and they never sat at the bottom for four years to get them. Hawthorn and Carlton are showing that extended stays at the foot of the ladder don't automatically guarantee sustained success afterwards

I'd love to see a team of superstars running around in red and white too mate and a lot of us - possibly you too - have proved that we'll still be there after an extended stay at the bottom of the ladder. But I would prefer to see the club continue to operate under its own steam, doing its best to win each and every week and not be relying on handouts from the AFL stay alive.

[Hartijon]

Define A grade mate. O'Keefe (although a little out of form lately), Malceski (tipped by some as AA this year), Hannebery potentially (as a favourite for Rising Star), Mumford is young but in the top handful of ruckman going around. There are not many teams that have more than a handful of "A Grade" players. Geelong does and they never sat at the bottom for four years to get them. Hawthorn and Carlton are showing that extended stays at the foot of the ladder don't automatically guarantee sustained success afterwards

I'd love to see a team of superstars running around in red and white too mate and a lot of us - possibly you too - have proved that we'll still be there after an extended stay at the bottom of the ladder. But I would prefer to see the club continue to operate under its own steam, doing its best to win each and every week and not be relying on handouts from the AFL stay alive.

I think most fans who go to the matches would agree with you.They want to see the swans win every game. On the other hand "playing the kids" has been seen by many as a form of tanking and a policy which will see us losing games. The reality is that we are also losing games not playing the kids however. I am dissappointed that we have not seen more of Vez,MOD,Johnstone and TDL this year and we saw too much of some others. I don't believe playing them would have changed the score too much in any game and the old reliables would still be ready for the Finals if we need to revert to them. To me it offered a win/win solution which unfortunately the club did not pursue.Of course I still want the Swans to win every game,but I also want them to build towards a future premiership team. Young players usually need 20-30 games to really click. We will therefore not have the core of a young dynamic side for another 2 seasons and thats if we play them next year.This stage of the year is when we should be settling the side down for the finals a point followed by the coaches last week.

[Mr Magoo]

Theres two teams coming into the competition in the next few years that will most definitely be full of young untried players and that will bottom out at least for two or three years (and maybe will even have some a grade players sprinkled through them) . Anyone who heavily subscribes to this theory should jump on the bandwagon as they will need all the support they can get.

[aardvark]

Define A grade mate. O'Keefe (although a little out of form lately), Malceski (tipped by some as AA this year), Hannebery potentially (as a favourite for Rising Star), Mumford is young but in the top handful of ruckman going around. There are not many teams that have more than a handful of "A Grade" players. Geelong does and they never sat at the bottom for four years to get them. Hawthorn and Carlton are showing that extended stays at the foot of the ladder don't automatically guarantee sustained success afterwards.

I'd love to see a team of superstars running around in red and white too mate and a lot of us - possibly you too - have proved that we'll still be there after an extended stay at the bottom of the ladder. But I would prefer to see the club continue to operate under its own steam, doing its best to win each and every week and not be relying on handouts from the AFL stay alive.

The only player at this point of time who could possibly make all Australian or even Mike Sheahans top 50 is Goodsy, maybe Mal but I doubt it. Hanners ,Mummy and maybe further down the track Rohan and Smithy are all going to be great players and unfortunately ROK is crippled with a groin problem. Another way to look at it is who from our group would be an automatic selection in any of the top 4 teams? I too would hope the club continues under its own steam, I believe it would even if we did have one or two extensive rebuilding years, oh and like you say I've been a supporter for over 50 years and will be buried with my scarf and cap on.