White's future

[Legs Akimbo]

Jesse White

Age: 22
2010 games: 17
2010 goals: 20
Career games: 37
Career goals: 40

Lachlan Henderson

Age: 21
2010 games: 16
2010 goals: 20
Career games: 31
Career goals: 21

Short of being some sort of Lockett or Lloyd like prodigy, bigger forwards don't hit their straps until later. I actually think Jesse was shaping up for a big year at full forward but the Bradshaw drafting threw him a bit.

Put him at Full Forward. Leave him there. Agree, he will really step up next year.

[BSA5]

I was away when this thread ran, and couldn't resist commenting. As I said elsewhere, Jesse is big enough (the biggest Swan by weight) and fast enough to frighten any defence. He simply needs to grow into it and through sheer experience get an increasing feel for what he's capable of. That final goal against Freo was exciting - McVeigh puts a handball into space (great decision) and Big J pounced like a cat on a mouse while holding off a helpless defender. The speed and agility had me drooling.

Would that speed and agility be better served stopping other forwards and rebounding though? That's the point. There's no doubting White's athletic talent, nor strength, nor even his footy smarts. I just question whether he has the tools necessary to ply his trade up forward, or if he'd be better served in the equivalent position down back. Both positions are equally important. Both require to equal extents the attributes he has so far shown at senior level, but playing forward requires an attribute which he certainly hasn't shown at senior level, and that is consistently safe hands. If he'd started down back, we'd all be saying "No, don't move him up forward, he would frighten any opposition forwardline".

[royboy42]

Trade bait

Only if we got 2 first round picks!! or one and half a mill!

[liz]

Would that speed and agility be better served stopping other forwards and rebounding though? That's the point. There's no doubting White's athletic talent, nor strength, nor even his footy smarts. I just question whether he has the tools necessary to ply his trade up forward, or if he'd be better served in the equivalent position down back. Both positions are equally important. Both require to equal extents the attributes he has so far shown at senior level, but playing forward requires an attribute which he certainly hasn't shown at senior level, and that is consistently safe hands. If he'd started down back, we'd all be saying "No, don't move him up forward, he would frighten any opposition forwardline".

I think he lacks - or at least, hasn't demonstrated - one absolutely critical attribute of being a good defender, which is solid concetration for the whole game. Arguably it costs us when as a forward he drifts away for a while but as a defender the impact would be even more noticeable and certainly more direct.

[BSA5]

I think he lacks - or at least, hasn't demonstrated - one absolutely critical attribute of being a good defender, which is solid concetration for the whole game. Arguably it costs us when as a forward he drifts away for a while but as a defender the impact would be even more noticeable and certainly more direct.

It would. But I see concentration as a far more learnable asset than clean, strong hands. There's also the question of why he loses concentration. If you're playing up forward, you have to be constantly proactive, and that requires a constant, active maintenance of concentration even in the absence of anything exciting or engaging. If you're responsible for an opponent, your opponent is always there, serving as a constant reminder of your duties. The job never stops, never lulls, never gives an opportunity for concentration to wave.

[liz]

It would. But I see concentration as a far more learnable asset than clean, strong hands. There's also the question of why he loses concentration. If you're playing up forward, you have to be constantly proactive, and that requires a constant, active maintenance of concentration even in the absence of anything exciting or engaging. If you're responsible for an opponent, your opponent is always there, serving as a constant reminder of your duties. The job never stops, never lulls, never gives an opportunity for concentration to wave.

I reckon the problems with his hands are overstated. He has had games where everything has stuck, others where he can't mark to save his life. I doubt he'll ever be as reliable a mark as Riewoldt but I don't see it as an area which can't be worked, on with results.

[BSA5]

I reckon the problems with his hands are overstated. He has had games where everything has stuck, others where he can't mark to save his life. I doubt he'll ever be as reliable a mark as Riewoldt but I don't see it as an area which can't be worked, on with results.

I'm struggling to think of a game in which he hasn't dropped marks he should have taken. Think about the goals White has kicked this year.... How many have been from set shots? How many have been from burning off an opponent and pouncing on a loose ball? White is averaging 3.3 marks per game this year. 3.3. That puts him behind all of our key position players (including Goodes, and not including Bolton, who was struggling with injury and not really playing key position anyway before he finally succumbed), and players such as: Bevan (6), McGlynn (5.5), Malceski (5.2), Kennelly (5.1), Hanners (4.7), O'Keefe (4.4), Shaw (4.3), Mattner (4.0), TDL (3.8), Meredith (3.8), Jetta (3.6), McVeigh (3.5), Bird (3.5) and Moore (3.4). White also averages less than 1 contested mark per game, and less than 1 mark inside 50 per game. These are NOT good stats. You want your key forwards taking marks, you want these marks to be contested, and you want them inside 50. White is failing on all three counts, and even taking into account experience, it's not a good look.

Now, I don't mean to bag White. I'm not saying he should be dropped. He's contributing in other ways. He's kicking over a goal a game despite such struggles. He's basically playing as a small forward for us! It's a huge testament to his athletic ability that he's able to kick such opportunistic goals with his athleticism. He would be able to outsprint the vast majority of other KP players in the league, and a very healthy proportion of midfielders/flankers. But wouldn't you rather see him using that ability to stick with a gun key forward, spoil a marking attempt, collect the loose ball in defence, rebound and hit the chest of a leading key forward THAT CAN ACTUALLY MARK?

[liz]

These are NOT good stats. You want your key forwards taking marks, you want these marks to be contested, and you want them inside 50. White is failing on all three counts, and even taking into account experience, it's not a good look.

Do you? I would have thought ideally you'd want a large proportion of them to be uncontested on the lead, especially for a player with the pace of White, who can burn off many an opponent in a few metres.

I am not defending his season as a key forward. Despite showing odd flashes of what he is capable off, he clearly has some way to go. I don't think he yet understands the physical advantages he has, or at least, how best to put them to good effect. And I don't think he realises how hard the best key forwards work in terms of leading, leading, and leading again.

Yes, he has dropped several doozies this season and he needs to improve on that. Is it a concentration issue or a technique issue? Probably a bit of both. But I think that for his output to improve, it is the number of contests he gets to or leads he makes that is going to be more significant.

[BSA5]

Do you? I would have thought ideally you'd want a large proportion of them to be uncontested on the lead, especially for a player with the pace of White, who can burn off many an opponent in a few metres.

I am not defending his season as a key forward. Despite showing odd flashes of what he is capable off, he clearly has some way to go. I don't think he yet understands the physical advantages he has, or at least, how best to put them to good effect. And I don't think he realises how hard the best key forwards work in terms of leading, leading, and leading again.

Yes, he has dropped several doozies this season and he needs to improve on that. Is it a concentration issue or a technique issue? Probably a bit of both. But I think that for his output to improve, it is the number of contests he gets to or leads he makes that is going to be more significant.

You definitely want your key forwards taking contested marks. Uncontested on the lead is also good, but you want your key forwards doing both. Bradshaw and Goodes average 1.6 and 1.7 contested marks a game this year. Hall consistently averaged 2-3 contested marks per game in his time with us. Ideally you want your key forwards doing both. White is doing neither.

White makes plenty of leads, and gets to plenty of contests. He just struggles to influence them.

I just can't see why people are so stuck on the idea of making him into a key forward, despite meeting NONE of the key forward KPIs. He has kicked a few goals, but very, very few of them have been "key-forward" goals. We have in White a freakishly strong and athletic player with a good attitude, good skills, and seemingly good smarts. And yet, he's not performing anywhere near where he should be, even accounting for inexperience. Next year there will be a new coach, and two very talented key position players with another preseason under their belt who are already pressing for selection in the forwardline. It will be the perfect opportunity to try him in another role and see how he goes with that.

[goswannies]

Can someone please just run a poll to see whether RWOs think Jesse should be played as a foward, defender, ruckman, in the twos or traded so this thread can be retired?

[dimelb]

Would that speed and agility be better served stopping other forwards and rebounding though? That's the point. There's no doubting White's athletic talent, nor strength, nor even his footy smarts. I just question whether he has the tools necessary to ply his trade up forward, or if he'd be better served in the equivalent position down back. Both positions are equally important. Both require to equal extents the attributes he has so far shown at senior level, but playing forward requires an attribute which he certainly hasn't shown at senior level, and that is consistently safe hands. If he'd started down back, we'd all be saying "No, don't move him up forward, he would frighten any opposition forwardline".

I can see your point and he could well make a good defender, bit imo we need him up front where he has shown, especially in the reserves, that he has the required attributes. He certainly needs to show them more consistently at the higher level, and I'd like to see him continue to work himself into the game. We are well off for defenders: Craig B may have another season, LRT has a few more seasons in him, Reg is going great guns, Sam Reid looks the goods, Nick Smith is a gem, etc., but we know how hard it is to get a genuinely big, fast, scary key forward who is a decent kick. atm he is our best prospect.
(edit) I meant to add, the other players seem really happy to have him there; I think that counts for something.

[dimelb]

Can someone please just run a poll to see whether RWOs think Jesse should be played as a foward, defender, ruckman, in the twos or traded so this thread can be retired?

I'd like to see that!

[Bas]

I'd like to see that!

Can someone run a poll to see if we need to run a poll on this.

[goswannie14]

Can someone please just run a poll to see whether RWOs think Jesse should be played as a foward, defender, ruckman, in the twos or traded so this thread can be retired?

Why don't you do it? Just a thought.

[goswannies]

Why don't you do it? Just a thought.

Dunno how..... hang on, I just learned how to