Swans Academy and player watch

[707]

Liz, Abe davis a chance to get nominated by us as an Academy selection? Is he KP size for AFL?

[liz]

Liz, Abe davis a chance to get nominated by us as an Academy selection? Is he KP size for AFL?

He's got to be a chance. He's showing as much, if not more, than someone like Jack Lynch at an equivalent stage. He played in the U18s last year as an underager and caught the attention of some well-informed BF junior footy watchers. And he's been regularly contributing goals this year for both the RAMS and the Swans reserves team.

I think he has the size to play key position at AFL level. He's low 190s height wise but looks to be a strongish build already. Still raw but looks to have quite a bit to offer.

[Matt80]

Liz, Abe davis a chance to get nominated by us as an Academy selection? Is he KP size for AFL?

If Isaac Heeney is presumably going to be taken by the Swans as a first round academy selection, do we need to find another first round selection to have access to Abe Davis? How does the system work if you want to draft two academy selections? If rival AFL clubs bid for both Heeney and Davis in the first round, are we in trouble?

[Ludwig]

I saw Abe Davis listed at 193cm and 90kgs. So that's a great size for an 18 yo.

The Academy and F/S bidding takes place before the trade season, so clubs only have their regular draft picks at that time. My understanding is that if 2 players are bid for prior to a club's given selection then the nominating club can use its next 2 selections for those players. For example, if the Swans have regular picks 17 and 37 as their first 2 draft picks, and Heeney is bid for by Carltion with pick 8 and Davis by Freo with pick 15 then we can counter by taking Heeney with our pick 17 and Davis with our pick 37.

Interestingly, there are 2 other 1st round FS possible nominations, Darcy Moore for Collingwood and Waterman for WC. So there is the possibility that these will be bid for and countered, thus taking up 4 club moves in the 1st round. Gives Heeney a long shot of sneaking through to the second round, but it would be a fluke.

I'm doing this from memory from a post from last year, so if someone knows the actual rule, help me out here.

[ugg]

Rams team to play NT Blacktown 12.50. As a bonus it appears the Ressies are playing UWS (GWS reserves) in a practice match starting at 4pm

[707]

Academy bidding is the same as F/S. You have to use your next available ND pick after the pick that has been put up by another club. I understand there is a fair bit of above board but back room discussion to ensure F/S, and now additionally Academy picks, penalise the claiming club fairly for the player they will receive. The claiming club doesn't pull any swifties either to leave the "underbidding" club with a player they may not actually want to pick up, so it's played by gentlemen's rules.

Assuming this year we have picks 19, 39, 59 etc. Heeney will be rated top 10 as a minimum you would think so Hawthorn would bid their pick 17, we have to use pick 19 to claim him. Let's say Abe Davis lights up the U18s and rockets up the charts to be a top 10! Another club will bid for him between late teens and mid 30s but regardless of where in that range the rival bid is placed we have to use our NEXT AVAILABLE pick and that's pick 39.

This situation may occur next year with Josh Dunkley and Callum Mills both very highly rated at this early stage. It's when we get two top picks for a late teens and late 30s that the excrement will really hit the Eddie fan!

[707]

Is Pennant Hills in the GWS zone? I thought I read somewhere that it is, which, if true, is a real shame for the club that produced our captains.

Surely once GWS become established and rocket up the ladder there should be a redistribution of the state along much fairer lines, just so we get some decent players out of our Academy :-) The way the boundaries were drawn originally was very lopsided to favour GWS.

[Ludwig]

With a list that needs trimming down and still a load of high draft picks to come, GWS may well pass on most of their zone selections, like they did on Cunningham. I am not sure if we get the next dip on those players.

[liz]

Is Pennant Hills in the GWS zone? I thought I read somewhere that it is, which, if true, is a real shame for the club that produced our captains.

Surely once GWS become established and rocket up the ladder there should be a redistribution of the state along much fairer lines, just so we get some decent players out of our Academy :-) The way the boundaries were drawn originally was very lopsided to favour GWS.

Given we are on track to net the most highly rated NSW player (at U18 age) since McVeigh this year, with another highly rated player looking likely next year, I hardly think we can complain about not getting any decent players out of our Academy.

Also, the purpose of the Academies is to accelerate the development of talent in places were it might not otherwise get a chance. We have first dibs on the largest metropolitan regions in the state outside Sydney (ie all the coastal region north of Sydney, plus the Wollongong region). We also have most of the Sydney region where the AFL demographic has largely resided. Some of the suburbs that supply the junior clubs in the Hills region fall into our zone, together with the east and north of the city. GWS might have the western regions of Sydney in their zone, but other than small pockets (Campbelltown, the rest of the Hills region), knowledge of and interest in the game has traditionally been quite low. That is GWS' challenge - to increase interest in junior players who reside in the expanses of the west. To date their better players seem to be largely coming from the Riverina and other areas close to the Vic border.

[707]

Thanks Liz, an informed voice as always. Bit hard for an Adelaide based supporter to understand the lie of the land. Is Pennant hills GWS?

It was tongue in cheek about getting decent players out of the Academy. Having Heeney this year and probably Mills next year, whilst very nice, will shine an unwelcome equalisation spotlight on the Academies that we probably didn't need in the first years.

I'm all for a stronger AFL environment in NSW and all for a much larger NSW representation in our squad. I always have a soft spot for our NSW players and am really stoked that our captains are NSW products. We are Sydney, we are NSW!

Will be a test of GWS to see if they can get players coming out of western Sydney.

[unconfuseme]

GWS makes it's own challenges!

As you point out 707, GWS were "gifted" the Swans major nursery in Southern NSW, and sorry to say, they have stuffed that up. The classic example is still there for all to see. Passing on their "Inaugural Academy Member" - Harry Cunningham - who the Swans snapped up as a rookie, and now looks a good chance of being a premiership player (touch wood!) whilst GWS battle for the spoon ... ouch!

Pennant Hills, from memory IS Swans territory ... or was? ... but then, I notice that the AFL has removed all reference to those boundaries of late, so who knows what is in store!?

The big problem is, the AFL, in concert with GWS, has clearly taken the stance that development is too hard.

The easy short sighted approach has been to move boundaries ... regardless of research, regardless of demographics or history, and regardless of outcomes.

With the proposed introduction of the GWS franchise several years ago, someone at the AFL, for no good reason, decided to take a map of Sydney, and draw a crooked line through it. This imposed GWS alignment on Bankstown Local Government Area, and in spite of well founded and researched protest from the club and region, telling the AFL it would be the downfall of the code in Sydney's biggest LGA, they persevered.

The outcome has been devastating.

The only junior club in that area - the Bankstown Sports Junior AFL Club - who's members had warned them of the outcomes, were good to their word,and confirmed their research. When push came to shove, and they were told there was no place for them in the Swans Zone to play or represent, they folded, and 150+ kids, + families, coaches, administrators and volunteers, and importantly, the largest Junior Sports Sponsor in Sydney, simply walked away from the code in Sydney's largest LGA.

No one plays AFL at any competitive level in Bankstown anymore, and one of the ONLY AFL specific facilities in NSW, Kelso Oval, looks likely to be handed to other sports very soon. The AFL is totally responsible for this, and GWS is complicit.

The AFL have also tried to impose the same thing on Baulkham Hills Juniors - they are still resisting, and have promised the AFL and GWS similar outcomes to the Bankstown scenario. The AFL typically seem undaunted, and so long as the "numbers add up", have no interest in what is happening in reality. That situation remains unresolved, GWS remain mute on the subject ... at least their President and the AFL GM are not lying to their face about it.

The bigger concern about player development is not that the Swans are missing out on potential players from other NSW and Sydney areas, but that the approach of the AFL and GWS is driving kids out of the sport altogether ... FACT.

Just a few quick teasers ...

How many millions of $'s has the AFL pumped into GWS and the development of AFL in Western Sydney in the past say 4 years (eg. we know Izzy got $3mill +) ...?

How embarrassing would it then be to claim that they have successfully "grown" the junior numbers to the extent that "... Each and every week over 2000 kids between under 9 and under 17?s play our great game."

... and they see this as a bragging right - there are more kids playing soccer in Bankstown!... seriously, if they just offered kids $5,000 a year to play Auskick, it would be cheaper, and they would have a LOT more playing!

... it is truly frightening, if the future development of AFL level players is in NSW and most of Sydney is in the hands of GWS ... their amateur administration and models are like chalk and cheese compared with how the Swans go about it.

[Reggi]

AFL site is saying Abe Davis 2nd rnd pick postulates that all of our ND picks may be decided before the draft

[Matt80]

AFL site is saying Abe Davis 2nd rnd pick postulates that all of our ND picks may be decided before the draft

Is the minimum ND intake two or three players?

[dimelb]

GWS makes it's own challenges!

As you point out 707, GWS were "gifted" the Swans major nursery in Southern NSW, and sorry to say, they have stuffed that up. The classic example is still there for all to see. Passing on their "Inaugural Academy Member" - Harry Cunningham - who the Swans snapped up as a rookie, and now looks a good chance of being a premiership player (touch wood!) whilst GWS battle for the spoon ... ouch!

Pennant Hills, from memory IS Swans territory ... or was? ... but then, I notice that the AFL has removed all reference to those boundaries of late, so who knows what is in store!?

The big problem is, the AFL, in concert with GWS, has clearly taken the stance that development is too hard.

The easy short sighted approach has been to move boundaries ... regardless of research, regardless of demographics or history, and regardless of outcomes.

With the proposed introduction of the GWS franchise several years ago, someone at the AFL, for no good reason, decided to take a map of Sydney, and draw a crooked line through it. This imposed GWS alignment on Bankstown Local Government Area, and in spite of well founded and researched protest from the club and region, telling the AFL it would be the downfall of the code in Sydney's biggest LGA, they persevered.

The outcome has been devastating.

The only junior club in that area - the Bankstown Sports Junior AFL Club - who's members had warned them of the outcomes, were good to their word,and confirmed their research. When push came to shove, and they were told there was no place for them in the Swans Zone to play or represent, they folded, and 150+ kids, + families, coaches, administrators and volunteers, and importantly, the largest Junior Sports Sponsor in Sydney, simply walked away from the code in Sydney's largest LGA.

No one plays AFL at any competitive level in Bankstown anymore, and one of the ONLY AFL specific facilities in NSW, Kelso Oval, looks likely to be handed to other sports very soon. The AFL is totally responsible for this, and GWS is complicit.

The AFL have also tried to impose the same thing on Baulkham Hills Juniors - they are still resisting, and have promised the AFL and GWS similar outcomes to the Bankstown scenario. The AFL typically seem undaunted, and so long as the "numbers add up", have no interest in what is happening in reality. That situation remains unresolved, GWS remain mute on the subject ... at least their President and the AFL GM are not lying to their face about it.

The bigger concern about player development is not that the Swans are missing out on potential players from other NSW and Sydney areas, but that the approach of the AFL and GWS is driving kids out of the sport altogether ... FACT.

Just a few quick teasers ...

How many millions of $'s has the AFL pumped into GWS and the development of AFL in Western Sydney in the past say 4 years (eg. we know Izzy got $3mill +) ...?

How embarrassing would it then be to claim that they have successfully "grown" the junior numbers to the extent that "... Each and every week over 2000 kids between under 9 and under 17?s play our great game."

... and they see this as a bragging right - there are more kids playing soccer in Bankstown!... seriously, if they just offered kids $5,000 a year to play Auskick, it would be cheaper, and they would have a LOT more playing!

... it is truly frightening, if the future development of AFL level players is in NSW and most of Sydney is in the hands of GWS ... their amateur administration and models are like chalk and cheese compared with how the Swans go about it.

Devastating critique unconfuseme. Is this the sort of responsibility Tom Harley is supposed to take on? Whoever it falls to, you'd expect the AFL to be a bit more aware of what's happening, and to be acting to rectify it instead of repeating it.

[unconfuseme]

Just factual observations dimelb, I have refrained from any serious critique!

There is no-one who has been involved either now or over the past 7 years at GWs or AFL in NSW in a managerial or administrative position, who is NOT aware of ALL of this

... yet, they remain belligerently unmoved on the "policy", although no one seems to be able to explain by whom or how it was devised, and how it benefits the clubs involved ... sorry, former clubs