Is Horse impressing anyone?

[The Big Cat]

I hate posts like this.

Just because you are good at playing football, doesn't mean you are good at analysing or coaching football. Also, just because you haven't played football at the highest level, doesn't mean you can't have an opinion.

Most posts critical of Longmire have valid reasons. They are probably areas Longmire himself is working on. Not sure how this is sniping.

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

[Cpt. Kirk]

5 Things piss me off about threads like this.

1. Longmire has been taught how to coach from the best (roosy) and to judge him after 8 games is a bit ambiguous imo
2. His sub selections have been average, Sydney lacks a good sub and being the first year of this rule being out ofcourse there is going to be miss appointments of the sub rule our best sub (Gary Rohan) is injured and is out for the next six weeks and even with his skills as a sub i would still prefer him getting a full game. Also in the first game when a lot of people judged him about using seaby as a sub was because he was not 100% on mumfords fitness and he didnt want mummy to go down and only have jesse white rucking.
3. TDL coaches have given him a role to do in the 2s which is to learn how to apply pressure in the forward line and he isnt showing what they want yet, so they want him to work at it.
4. The people that constantly said get seaby in before pyke got injured, Seaby was performing worse in the 2s then what pyke was so pyke was the first choice in the eyes of the coaches. And also getting goodes to ruck ever since Adam did something regarding his leg(i am not sure what it was) the coaches since 2007 have not rucked goodes they obviously think that him rucking could risk reinjuring his leg.
5. This year we have plagued by injuries to some of our best players such as Malcheski, Kennelly, Jack and Rohan. These players other then Rohan i would put in the top 8 of my 22 and not having them there left massive gaps which i thought longmire did to the best of what the list offered.

[bodgie]

I thought threads like this are what these forums are for?

Sure its early days but there are some strange selection and position decisions going on. Players seem to be left stranded out of their depth (old and new) and there seems to be a lot of frustrated arm waving and bitching already.

Great to see a lot of new guys getting a run. Is he developing a medium term top contender or muddling along to keep us in the 8 still?

[Big Al]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

Here's the problem with this Big Cat. If Horse had guided us to 8-0 and there was nothing but praise on RWO for his coaching wouldn't it also hold true that these positive opinions are also uninformed?

We don't know the inner workings of the club so how do we know that positive opinions are accurate?

I've said all along that on some issues our opinions are indeed being made without the full picture. Doesn't mean those opinions can't be made.

[Cpt. Kirk]

I thought threads like this are what these forums are for?

Great to see a lot of new guys getting a run. Is he developing a medium term top contender or muddling along to keep us in the 8 still?

Your right bodgie.

I think in the past coaches may have been able to get away from not getting a finals position to rebuild a team but there is no point this year as GWS gets a majority of the good picks this year.

[Bloody Hell]

Threads like this are how Mexican stand-offs begin.

Nothing wrong with reviewing the coaches performance so far. He has done some things that make me scratch my head, most of which are noted here. Generally seem to lack a firm gameplan and is just picking players (why 5 KD played last week, I have no idea) continuously. Pick who you think are best and stick with them! The more players play together the better they get, a merry-go-round makes it tough for all.

To be fair he has a hard act to follow (who also copped a fair bit of criticism on this site), premiership coach much loved by the fans, leading me to the only contribution I have to make (which has already been pointed out).

He lacks charisma.

"So what", I hear you think. The role of coach has evolved so that the part that tells the player how to run, mark and kick has diminished, often falling to the assistants. In the commercial world we live in, Coach is a face of the Swans in Sydney and to the rest of the comp. Think back to those heady days of 2005. Roos, Kirk, BBB....alot of charisma - alot of fans came to the club (and before you say Premiership year, I'm talking about the groundswell on the way).

ATM we have Longmire....McVeigh....even Goodes all seem like various shades of Vanilla - as a fan I want some Raspberry Ripple with my footy!

I know this is an inane post, but I think what a difference someone like Malthouse could make to the club.

[Bloody Hell]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

Footy isn't quantum physics.

There are different types of fans in the world - those who like a tough scrap, those who like end to end football, those who appreciate high flying pack marks, those who appreciate quick hands in close, those who like to analyse the strategy, application and execution of football and those who don't.

If you can't watch 44 guys run around in a big circle (while understanding the rules of the game) for 3 hours and gain no data, or not want to gain data for dissemination there's no point abusing those who do.

Your argument is in the same vain as saying the only people who should comment on finance are the brokers who work in the pits at the stock exchange.

[Bleed Red Blood]

Footy isn't quantum physics.

There are different types of fans in the world - those who like a tough scrap, those who like end to end football, those who appreciate high flying pack marks, those who appreciate quick hands in close, those who like to analyse the strategy, application and execution of football and those who don't.

If you can't watch 44 guys run around in a big circle (while understanding the rules of the game) for 3 hours and gain no data, or not want to gain data for dissemination there's no point abusing those who do.

Your argument is in the same vain as saying the only people who should comment on finance are the brokers who work in the pits at the stock exchange.

this. also, we get it. no more posts saying we dont need afl experience to have a say, and no more saying we do. deal? we're all in the same boat,

[Hartijon]

Give me a group of highly decorated ex-players (whose reputations, every day employment and livelihood revolve around analysing games and strategies) over a bunch of amateurs who have about as much idea about the strategies and intricacies of top level football as they do about the finer points of quantum physics. We, the public have absolutely NO idea of what is happening at club level and your "valid reasons" for criticism are not reasons at all, but the opinions of the uninformed. I call it sniping when the coach is being called into question when he has coached EIGHT games, SIX of them against top eight sides and has a positive winning percentage. And the call to recruit Malthouse is not only ridiculous but bordering on betrayal to the club.

You make it sound like politics where the inner sanctum of experts make the real decisions that we poor fools could not possibly understand so they give us lame press releases that we foolishly discuss.The flaw in your position is that we are discussing a game ,just a game that gets played publically once a week.The ignorant masses of plebians that watch this game uninformed of the planning ,coaching etc that happened first can now see the results of this work before them.What do they see? Some teams working like a machine with high skill levels ,great team work and a functional team structure.Other teams working like a bunch of individuals with poor skills and little team work.Its not rocket science,its there for all to see.Coaches are and I argue should be, judged on results .These results are there for all to see every week. If we play well,have a team structure and display good skills but lose against a good team fans can still take satisfaction from the result.The coach is clearly doing his job in this instance.When the players are not switched on ,skill levels of basics are poor and the team has no forward structure the coach must be accountable whether he has coached 8 or 80. You don't need to know the insider details to know when things are not going well,you can see it on the field. Your opinion based on this weekly observation is perfectly valid.

[Swanner]

5 midfielders and a fullback selected this weekend as our forward line. the signs aren't good.

[Bas]

I wrote up in a previous thread some time ago, the break down of player experience. We have LOTS of players who have only a few seasons experience at best.

I think you're delusional if you think the Swans can compete with the Cat's, Magpies or Hawks at the moment. At the moment.

Next year it could be better. It could be but not guaranteed.

If the Swans lose today, most will go into meltdown for Horse's chaff bag.

Just enjoy seeing some major major talent developing. That includes Everitt.

[royboy42]

You make it sound like politics where the inner sanctum of experts make the real decisions that we poor fools could not possibly understand so they give us lame press releases that we foolishly discuss.The flaw in your position is that we are discussing a game ,just a game that gets played publically once a week.The ignorant masses of plebians that watch this game uninformed of the planning ,coaching etc that happened first can now see the results of this work before them.What do they see? Some teams working like a machine with high skill levels ,great team work and a functional team structure.Other teams working like a bunch of individuals with poor skills and little team work.Its not rocket science,its there for all to see.Coaches are and I argue should be, judged on results .These results are there for all to see every week. If we play well,have a team structure and display good skills but lose against a good team fans can still take satisfaction from the result.The coach is clearly doing his job in this instance.When the players are not switched on ,skill levels of basics are poor and the team has no forward structure the coach must be accountable whether he has coached 8 or 80. You don't need to know the insider details to know when things are not going well,you can see it on the field. Your opinion based on this weekly observation is perfectly valid.

I'm sure there were some nuggets in there Harty, but if you hit enter every now and then to give it a bit of space, it makes it SO much easier to read..

Thanks Mate.

[Hartijon]

I'm sure there were some nuggets in there Harty, but if you hit enter every now and then to give it a bit of space, it makes it SO much easier to read..

Thanks Mate.

Sorry!

[wolftone57]

Before I get shouted down, I know it's early days and I know he's not the only one making decisions. But he is the head coach and enough water has gone under the bridge to cast an eye over his impact so far.
What I don't like:
1) The way he has handled Mummy...he came off a limited pre season, after finishing last year with 2 bung knees, and was thrown straight in and required to run out games as the number 1 ruckman. Then when his backup Pyke went down, instead of bringing in the player they recruited as their number 1 ruckmen, Seaby, he brought in an underdone LRT, a deadest defender, and ask him to play backup ruckman/ forward. He's a pinch hitter in the ruck even when fully match fit. Thus leaving Mumford with an even bigger work load. Surprise , surprise, he's got a sore knee, which sounds like the injury from last year flaring up...that's never a good sign long term. Terrible player management.
2) Playing Everitt in defence for 5 or 6 games when his only decent quarter of footy was as a forward.
3) Playing Bevo in defence. We all know what happens when Bevo plays in the backline, so do our opponents.
4) Appointing McVeigh as co captain, a most uninspiring choice, which so far is looking like a stuff up that's going to be hard, if not impossible, to reverse with out having a negative effect on the team.
5) Not letting White settle into one position as a key forward, (or IMO as a key defender) and continuing to play him in the ruck, where he performs like a blind chicken. You could see him loosing confidence with every spell in the ruck.
6) Game day tactics have been much more reactive than proactive.
One example.. Letting Scarlett run free for so long was unbelievable.
7) Sub selections, IMO only one has effectively helped the team in 8 or 9 games. But my biggest beef here is using a 1st gamer. Where the chance of them having a positive impact on the result is negligible. They need a full game to settle into the pace and intensity, and hopefully gain some confidence.
8) I'll add one more I overlooked, our complete lack of forward structure..It's been woeful, playing LRT forward, Mattner forward at times, what a joke while, while Seaby, White, Johnson, TDL all languish in the 2's...pushing at best coming from a headcoach who was a key forward...You don't win games if you don't kick goals.
I've approached this from a negative angle, obviously, and would like to hear some positives..

I totally agree our forward set up is non existant & we have TDL kicking over 5 a game in the resies. As soon as it gets a bit hot in defense all our players are sent to between half back & full back. When the ball comes out our way what do you know noone there only opposition. The Cats destroyed us in the last quarter because of thi & yes Matty Scarlett was free because his player was in defense. As soon as it gets hot in the kitchen Horse's only reaction is to go defensive, what ever happened to making a few switches quickly to solve the problem. Judd cut us to pieces because Horse left Ryno on him all day, as much as I love Ryno Judd needs a good tagger & I thought that day Shaw was the man for that job.
By the way Ryce is a @@@@ backman, he makes too many mistakes, I like the idea of playing him in the mid & resting forward but I think we have to look at the long term solutions not short. Parker, Murphy, 2 x Jonno, Rohan, Gordon etc are the future & in my opinion our current list still has a lot of players who stuff up at the worst possible time & place. Even McViegh stuffed up & turned over for a goal last week, that would never have happened in the past & this sort of loose play & sloppy skills seem to be Horse's style. Give me Roosies 'boring' footy any day over the crap I have witnessed this year. I admit some of the style is exciting but nothing different to the style Roos was getting them to play last year. The difference is some of the players are more mature this year & should have developed but don't seem to be doing so. Poor skills & judgement are a training issue & I don't think we concentrate on skills enough. The guy I reckon has the most scintilating skills can't get a game and most of the team are performing poorly (TDL). I hope they get rid of Horse before TDL decides to go somewhere he is appreciated

[cowcar]

Timn Watson??

thats a very good point but i was only thinking about Swans in this case...