Yeah, so how did Adelaide beat us?

[Robbo]

Tonight against the saints they kicked 3 goals for the night and were a joke. Would of lost to GC tonight.

However 3 weeks ago they knocked us off. After that game I said that it was our worst loss of the last 5 years, I don't think anyone agreed with me. Surely a few people agree with me now.

For them to beat us we are a very ordinary side and now with the saints winning tonight we are now out if the 8. St.kilda knew tonight that a top 8 spot was up for grabs and knew that they couldn't lose to a side like Adelaide if they wanted to make it, so they focused and made sure they got the job done. We didn't do that when we played Adelaide.

[SwansFan1972]

Tonight against the saints they kicked 3 goals for the night and were a joke. Would of lost to GC tonight.

However 3 weeks ago they knocked us off. After that game I said that it was our worst loss of the last 5 years, I don't think anyone agreed with me. Surely a few people agree with me now.

For them to beat us we are a very ordinary side and now with the saints winning tonight we are now out if the 8. St.kilda knew tonight that a top 8 spot was up for grabs and knew that they couldn't lose to a side like Adelaide if they wanted to make it, so they focused and made sure they got the job done. We didn't do that when we played Adelaide.

+1

Pretty embarrassing for us really. It was very disappointing to lose to the crows a few weeks ago, however, in defence of the swans:

- it was the type of ugly, lousy loss fans of many other clubs see week to week (Richmond, Port) or every week or two (Dees). Our boys have served up games like this very very infrequently, so we should cut them a little slack. In terms of the expectations going into the game and ramifications for the season, it was definitely a very bad loss.

- they did a lot right, except the most crucial thing of all - kick the freaking goals when they are there to be kicked.

- should have won by five goals (see above!)

- the ultimate joke (quite clearly) was that we bought Neil Craig a stay of execution. After last night's debacle, I doubt either the Crows or Neil Craig would be feeling it was worthwhile - so were they really winners out of beating us?!?! If he lasts another week it will be a minor miracle!

- Crows were under the pump to finally show something to avoid club record losing streak - unfortunately our misses in front of goal kept them in it and they found enough within themselves to get over the line. Since then they've given up a six goal lead to the Bombers (who have two interstate wins from their last 20 or so games) and turned up their toes last night (recording the club's lowest ever AFL score) - so yeah, we sure struck them at the wrong time. At least the loss to them was largely on the swans heads, unlike the Freo debacle where our boys were extras in Bubbles Chamberlain's latest 'look at me, look at me' promotional video.

Put together, the crows and freo losses have blown our (reasonably promising looking) season out of the water. Three weeks ago, 5th/6th and a home final finish looked a dead set certainty, with a string of good results also likely to see them have a shot at 3rd/4th. Our current predicament is such a shame because they swans had been very reliable until lately (winning the games we should, losing only to the teams which are actually better than us), and earning what appeared to be some pretty good street cred with their arguably best performance of the year in running the pies to a kick.

Unfortunately it seems the pies game has done more harm than good - perhaps it got into our players heads a bit too, since that hard won credibility lasted all of one week. Maybe the boys built up their own opinions of themselves and thought that just turning up for the following three weeks would be enough. It is easy to see how they could think "Hey, we nearly rolled Collingwood so we must be going pretty well". Sadly, the last three weeks have proved otherwise - even the 70 point bullying of the Suns didn't look that great (strange to say in such a big win, but it was something of a mismatch)! The swans were scratchy in that game and the suns were responsible for some pretty awful kicking for goal early, letting the swans off the hook physically and mentally when the game was up for grabs.

I guess the only consolation is that even if we were a 10% better side, could we really expect to knock off the top sides in the league? This year should be a finding out where we are at year, and bring some new blood into the side (which is happening). If we can scrape into the finals and win one for experience, the year will be a success. Then they should be considered a very likely improver for 2012/13.

And hey - at least we will have two gimme wins next season - the AFL will surely draw us against the Giants twice!

[Bas]

When I was at the Saints-Bulldogs game in Melbourne, not so long ago on the June long weekend, I can remember the radio talking heads saying that both teams were finished for the year and the one that lost that night was definately buried for the year. The Dogs lost. Both Lyon and Eade were walking dead men in their jobs.

How things have changed. One is now above us and knocked us out of the 8 whilst the other should also be above us if they had won last week (assuming they win today).

Sadly I don't think that finals experience will be a reality for the boys now. Bit of a reality check for the team for the rest of the year.

[Melbournehammer]

I think I concluded after the Carlton game that for us to win games we need to find ways to kick at least 12 goals. Adelaide proved it. We have paid the price since then. There is no doubt that the Adelaide loss came about because we simply failed to convert our dominance in much of the game into a winning score. But I agree that we are now outsiders to make the eight and I do blame our coaching panel for failing to address a failing forward line from the pre-season onwards given that it was obvious that Bradshaw was likely to miss. Our midfield gets it there enough but seriously our inability to kick a score puts so much pressure on the defence.

[Hartijon]

I think I concluded after the Carlton game that for us to win games we need to find ways to kick at least 12 goals. Adelaide proved it. We have paid the price since then. There is no doubt that the Adelaide loss came about because we simply failed to convert our dominance in much of the game into a winning score. But I agree that we are now outsiders to make the eight and I do blame our coaching panel for failing to address a failing forward line from the pre-season onwards given that it was obvious that Bradshaw was likely to miss. Our midfield gets it there enough but seriously our inability to kick a score puts so much pressure on the defence.

Agree,basic forward structure has never been addressed and it has come back to bite us hard.

[Dosser]

Agree,basic forward structure has never been addressed and it has come back to bite us hard.

Why is it that everyone agrees with this sentiment, but when someone suggests that our coaching this year has been crap then they get jumped on in these forums?

[giant]

Thought crossed my mind too - didn't see last night's game but truth was the Crows were up for our game and played pretty damn well. Last night's effort looks like the last hurrah of a team that's given up.

[wolftone57]

I think I concluded after the Carlton game that for us to win games we need to find ways to kick at least 12 goals. Adelaide proved it. We have paid the price since then. There is no doubt that the Adelaide loss came about because we simply failed to convert our dominance in much of the game into a winning score. But I agree that we are now outsiders to make the eight and I do blame our coaching panel for failing to address a failing forward line from the pre-season onwards given that it was obvious that Bradshaw was likely to miss. Our midfield gets it there enough but seriously our inability to kick a score puts so much pressure on the defence.

I agree & one of the things I worry about is that our Coaching Panel are allocated to positions that have not been their speciality, John Blakey started his footy with Fitzroy as a Winger & ended up at North as a midfield stopper. he also played a bit of footy across half back under Pagan but is our Forward Coach???? Work that one out! Leigh Tudor & Stewie Dew both played forward but don't get that role? That seems silly to me!
We won't kick a score with the type of negative footy we are playing & if we keep bombing the footy into the forwardline it is just going to keep coming back.

[Nico]

To me the basic reason is we use half the side to try to shut down players rather than trying to create something. Perhaps it is time the coaches started trying to work to our strengths. Frankly I don't think we bring anything to a game that is a bit quirky or different and sides see us as utterly predictable. No wonder our kicking skills are so poor: we play outside the corridor and rarely get to practice pin point kicking to players making space and position. Most of the time we kick in hope that the pill won't go out on the full and sides just clog up the predictable kick along the boundary to a contest. We have so many players behind the ball that rarely is there a forward lead up player 5 metres in front of their man to take advantage. Carlton and Freo did us like a dinner with their lead up players.

When we get the rare free possession in the middle of the ground we go sideways to a static small who is manned up, when we have a couple of fairly handy talls with 35 and 20 on their backs up front.

[Nico]

I agree & one of the things I worry about is that our Coaching Panel are allocated to positions that have not been their speciality, John Blakey started his footy with Fitzroy as a Winger & ended up at North as a midfield stopper. he also played a bit of footy across half back under Pagan but is our Forward Coach???? Work that one out! Leigh Tudor & Stewie Dew both played forward but don't get that role? That seems silly to me!
We won't kick a score with the type of negative footy we are playing & if we keep bombing the footy into the forwardline it is just going to keep coming back.

To me I don't have a problem with bombing it into the forwardline, it's just that we don't get it in there quick enough. We tend to do it after we have dithered around with the footy, and kicking long to a clogged 50 zone becomes the only option as there are now no other options available. You get Goodes and Reid one out and we are always a chance to kick a goal. When we get the ball in quick to the 30 metre zone we have the opposition backs in all sorts of trouble. The problem is we rarely do it more than a couple of times a game. We play dumb footy; whether that is the players or the "game plan" or something else, I am buggered if I know. But it 'aint working.

[wolftone57]

Campbell Heath is playing in our forwardline? I think you mean 37! There is more to it than just our delivery & I agree, very predictable & the forward defensive press that they seem so desperate to use all the time is a dud & very old footy. Every side knows how to beat that, you just keep on presenting & whallah man on free man set up on the overlap. No plan going into the forwardline except to bomb it long & we don't even bomb it to the advantage of our blokes. Our kick ins are predictable most of the time whoever kicks in plays on & then bombs long to try to beat the press.
Why do we so often start games with the wrong match ups? Why are some players allowed to go berserk before we finally get things right or we don't get them right at all.

[ScottH]

Makes a win today all the more important.

[GongSwan]

Agree,basic forward structure has never been addressed and it has come back to bite us hard.

I suppose we have to look at the forwards we have to choose from atm, not much there really, probably got more value out of LRT than White, and our midfielders rotate thru HFF which is necessary with less rotations, and with Goodes getting older, we need to find another forward target, other than Reid, someone closer to goal or a longer kick. You can't coach players you don't have

[Nico]

Campbell Heath is playing in our forwardline? I think you mean 37! There is more to it than just our delivery & I agree, very predictable & the forward defensive press that they seem so desperate to use all the time is a dud & very old footy. Every side knows how to beat that, you just keep on presenting & whallah man on free man set up on the overlap. No plan going into the forwardline except to bomb it long & we don't even bomb it to the advantage of our blokes. Our kick ins are predictable most of the time whoever kicks in plays on & then bombs long to try to beat the press.
Why do we so often start games with the wrong match ups? Why are some players allowed to go berserk before we finally get things right or we don't get them right at all.

You are correct, I meant 37.

[Rob-bloods]

The Adelaide loss is still the one that haunts, because they are absolute CRAP..rain or not that was our most ridiculous loss in years and should have been the wake up call for matches like last week that we also really needed to win.