Membership options 2012

[BillyRayCypress]

[QUOTE=Dirtyburt;583226]

It is points 2 & 3 I find elitist and selfish. I hope that is clearer?

Be the Grand Elitist and become an AFL Member. Its about a 8-10 year wait before a person can become a full member. However after that period of time, the same people will still be complaining about missing out on Grand Final tickets. A Full AFL membership will get you into ANY Grand Final.

So don't think. Join!!!!! You can get a discount on your Swans membership if you have a reserved seat.

[AnnieH]

Dear 14 year old ....

No-one is being elitist.
I'm not talking about a "GF ticket" (that is a separate issue) .... I'm talking about paying a premium on top of your membership to join a club (within the club) that guarantees you a GF ticket should the club make it that far.
That premium is paid at membership renewal time... a full three months before the first ball is bounced.
If you don't have enough foresight to buy a PC add-on to your membership at the beginning of the season, you shouldn't be allowed to buy one four weeks before the season ends. You should take your chances on getting a GF ticket with everyone else who never had the foresight.

[BillyRayCypress]

Annie the Club doesn't reward foresight, they sell tickets they have available until they are sold out. Whether that is pre season on in the last 4 weeks.

That won't change. It is a business at the end of the day.

[Dirtyburt]

Dear 14 year old ....

No-one is being elitist.
I'm not talking about a "GF ticket" (that is a separate issue) .... I'm talking about paying a premium on top of your membership to join a club (within the club) that guarantees you a GF ticket should the club make it that far.
That premium is paid at membership renewal time... a full three months before the first ball is bounced.
If you don't have enough foresight to buy a PC add-on to your membership at the beginning of the season, you shouldn't be allowed to buy one four weeks before the season ends. You should take your chances on getting a GF ticket with everyone else who never had the foresight.

This is both sad and funny. If you cannot see that what you are saying is elitist and selfish, I feel sorry for you. If it takes a 14 yo to point it out, it is even sadder.

You paid to get a grand final ticket should we make it. You will get that, should we make it. You just don't want others to get the same as you for the same price.

[stellation]

Nobody is being elitist or selfish, our point is simply that next year many people who automatically get PC included in their membership will now perhaps wait till later in the season to see how the team is performing before committing to it. And what does discussion over PC membership have to do with wanting more people to go to games????
I (and I'm sure Al, Kirkari etc) do not begrudge anybody Grand Final tix, I'd be happy to see every member get a guaranteed GF tick, my point is simply that there should be some incentive given to get it included in your membership and if you opt to not take the option at the time of renewal, you pay more if you wish to get it later. I don't understand what it is that is so hard to understand or is so elitist.

As a PC member I agree with this, I have no issue with anyone getting on board either through the season to PC spots that are available or through whatever crazy allocations in GF week- they take the risk if they don't sign up early that they won't get a ticket, it's not unreasonable for risk to have reward (of being able to pick whether to pay or not).

I tend to agree with incentives for PC members (beyond snazzy plastic rain coats!), even if it's just something along the lines of every 5th consecutive PC year the PC fee is waived- I know finances are tight but I don't think that'd be a massive impact to the club's bottom line but would probably at least feel like something.

[jono2707]

Is this thread over yet? It's now going around in circles and some participants are just getting into silly arguments. I think we have covered the important points of the issue and people have had their say....

[Dirtyburt]

Is this thread over yet? It's now going around in circles and some participants are just getting into silly arguments. I think we have covered the important points of the issue and people have had their say....

Thanks dad

[Kirkari]

Is this thread over yet? It's now going around in circles and some participants are just getting into silly arguments. I think we have covered the important points of the issue and people have had their say....

Sorry Jono - not yet...

I'm in agreeance with Annie and Kirkari, if people want a guaranteed GF ticket four rounds out from finals, then they should have to pay more and I mean considerably more for the privilege then those of us that have enough faith to get it from the start of the season.
I pay for four adult memberships - all with premiership club, next year I may as well leave it till four weeks out to see how we are going before parting with the extra dollars.
It should cost X amount to get with your membership, add 20% if purchased before the bye and 40% if purchased between the bye and finals.

I think the club may find premiership club membership actually drops next year as a result of this.

I pay every year for PC, it is my choice, I am not forced by anyone. If my fellow swans fans want to attend the grand final, I applaud that. It does not affect my tickets. I still get to go to the grannie. I find it staggeringly elitist and selfish to complain that fellow swans fans have the opportunity to watch their team play in a grand final. Or, even worse, they should have to pay more than me.

I guess I am in the minority

It's not that I begrudge someone else getting a chance to buy GF tickets. I don't mind, personally, that someone can buy a Premiership upgrade late in the season for the same price I paid at the start. It's worth it to me to pay at the start of the year than to risk missing out, so I'll buy it every time regardless HOWEVER...

I think the club is missing a good marketing and revenue opportunity. By differentiating the price based on when you buy it, there is an incentive to buy it at the start of the year. Economics tells us that money today is worth more than money tomorrow, so this is good for the club. Even if those members are paying in instalments, the club knows the money is coming and can make their commercial decisions accordingly. Also, if we do badly, the value of the guarantee erodes quickly, so the more that are sold before the season starts, the better.

Putting the price up later in the season (and making this clear from the start), also adds perceived value for those members who feel the club is acknowledging their faith that the team will make the finals. Which makes it a good marketing move for the club. A feel-good factor for members who pay up front that is not only FREE to the club, but actually has the potential to increase membership revenue up front AND later in the season. Clearly there's a negative sentiment about the current situation, at least for some members, so I think it should be a consideration.

Putting the price up later in the season is also sensible if you consider the law of supply and demand (the Kirkari-Beerman system being a clever if overly complicated reflection of just that - thanks Beerman!), where the supply of GF guarantees remains fixed but the demand for them increases as the chances of the Swans playing in the Granny increase. Economics says where supply is fixed and demand increases in a free market, price will also increase. This is a bit stiff for the supporters who come in late, but good for the club.

Now, if I view the Sydney Swans organisation as any old corporate, I might object to this free market approach and say cost of supply didn't go up, why should the ticket price? But since I take a very keen interest in the financial viability of the club, I would applaud this clever bit of stewardship - within reason. (Now, what the exact number looks like, I don't know, though Jewels' suggestions don't seem excessive to me.)

Annie the Club doesn't reward foresight, they sell tickets they have available until they are sold out. Whether that is pre season on in the last 4 weeks.

That won't change. It is a business at the end of the day.

I am going to predict that this will in fact change for 2013, the club DOES want to reward, not "foresight" so much as "faith", and premiership club allocations will be more expensive after a certain point in the season. But you're right on one point - they'll still be available until they're all sold.

[Dirtyburt]

Sorry Jono - not yet...







It's not that I begrudge someone else getting a chance to buy GF tickets. I don't mind, personally, that someone can buy a Premiership upgrade late in the season for the same price I paid at the start. It's worth it to me to pay at the start of the year than to risk missing out, so I'll buy it every time regardless HOWEVER...

I think the club is missing a good marketing and revenue opportunity. By differentiating the price based on when you buy it, there is an incentive to buy it at the start of the year. Economics tells us that money today is worth more than money tomorrow, so this is good for the club. Even if those members are paying in instalments, the club knows the money is coming and can make their commercial decisions accordingly. Also, if we do badly, the value of the guarantee erodes quickly, so the more that are sold before the season starts, the better.

Putting the price up later in the season (and making this clear from the start), also adds perceived value for those members who feel the club is acknowledging their faith that the team will make the finals. Which makes it a good marketing move for the club. A feel-good factor for members who pay up front that is not only FREE to the club, but actually has the potential to increase membership revenue up front AND later in the season. Clearly there's a negative sentiment about the current situation, at least for some members, so I think it should be a consideration.

Putting the price up later in the season is also sensible if you consider the law of supply and demand (the Kirkari-Beerman system being a clever if overly complicated reflection of just that - thanks Beerman!), where the supply of GF guarantees remains fixed but the demand for them increases as the chances of the Swans playing in the Granny increase. Economics says where supply is fixed and demand increases in a free market, price will also increase. This is a bit stiff for the supporters who come in late, but good for the club.

Now, if I view the Sydney Swans organisation as any old corporate, I might object to this free market approach and say cost of supply didn't go up, why should the ticket price? But since I take a very keen interest in the financial viability of the club, I would applaud this clever bit of stewardship - within reason. (Now, what the exact number looks like, I don't know, though Jewels' suggestions don't seem excessive to me.)



I am going to predict that this will in fact change for 2013, the club DOES want to reward, not "foresight" so much as "faith", and premiership club allocations will be more expensive after a certain point in the season. But you're right on one point - they'll still be available until they're all sold.

Firstly, if a club reaches or wins a grand final, revenue across all membership classes increases. So I think your financial concerns are misplaced.

Secondly, a similar argument is put forward in the us and other countries about health care. I find that equally distasteful.

I realize I am in the minority, I am just putting forward an alternate view. I pay pc I don't expect or want others to pay more than me. I got what I paid for, it will not make me feel any better about myself or the club to have others pay more, or not be allowed one at all.

[Kirkari]

Firstly, if a club reaches or wins a grand final, revenue across all membership classes increases. So I think your financial concerns are misplaced.

Secondly, a similar argument is put forward in the us and other countries about health care. I find that equally distasteful.

I realize I am in the minority, I am just putting forward an alternate view. I pay pc I don't expect or want others to pay more than me. I got what I paid for, it will not make me feel any better about myself or the club to have others pay more, or not be allowed one at all.

That revenue comes in anyway. This would be IN ADDITION. It's called maximising revenue. It's not about you "feeling better" about the club, it's about the club being smart and staying solvent. Maybe you just don't care one way or the other about the club's financial performance, but if you genuinely think the Swans don't really need every single dollar they can get, you are wrong. Just ask Richard Colless or Andrew Ireland, or read the financial statements.

Likening access to a grand final ticket to access to healthcare makes your argument sound very enlightened but is drawing a pretty long bow - though I guess there are plenty of people who would have heart failure if they missed out. So it's nice that you take no pleasure from getting a better deal than members who upgrade later, but that's not true for everyone, and since we're not talking life and death, I say it's more in the range of being interested in value for money, rather than "elitist and selfish". I can see why I should subsidise community healthcare, but not why I should subsidise every member's footy tickets.

Putting a premium on later upgrades values your core supporters (who sign up early, every year, and grin and bear the annual price rises) and gets the most value out of your fence sitters and band wagoners (who drop their memberships and buy game day passes if they don't like the keyring and hat in the membership pack) who only miraculously show up in good years. OK, massive generalisations in there, but you get the idea. Inevitably you'll upset and/or disadvantage some people, e.g., those who can barely afford the membership each year without the upgrade for example, but as I said, it's actually NOT life and death.

[Dirtyburt]

Let's be honest here. The whinge is people who paid later got the same deal as those who paid earlier in the year. Some supporters don't like that, despite the fact they will get exactly what they paid for, no more, no less.

All this stuff about maximizing revenue for the club is just pretty window dressing to try and make it less distasteful.

[stellation]

Let's be honest here. The whinge is people who paid later got the same deal as those who paid earlier in the year. Some supporters don't like that, despite the fact they will get exactly what they paid for, no more, no less.

All this stuff about maximizing revenue for the club is just pretty window dressing to try and make it less distasteful.

To be honest, then, I do think that's somewhat unfair; with all due respect you appear (to someone really just glancing over the discussion) to be taking a contrary position for the sake of argument rather than engaging in spirited discussion.

Edit: I think Kirkari's suggestion is quite reasonable, and certainly isn't setting up a tiered structure of membership based on financial contribution- that said, if the club didn't want a tiered structure of membership based on financial contribution they wouldn't literally offer just that.

[Dirtyburt]

To be honest, then, I do think that's somewhat unfair; with all due respect you appear (to someone really just glancing over the discussion) to be taking a contrary position for the sake of argument rather than engaging in spirited discussion.

Entitled to your opinion, like we all are

[stellation]

Entitled to your opinion, like we all are

I'd added something in there with an edit after you'd first read that and my timing was a tad off, I was intending to make a general comment on the topic and not trying to single you out- apologies if you read that first up and thought I was having too much of a go.

[Dirtyburt]

I'd added something in there with an edit after you'd first read that and my timing was a tad off, I was intending to make a general comment on the topic and not trying to single you out- apologies if you read that first up and thought I was having too much of a go.

No drama, I just want some honesty in the debate. Not all this 'I am just thinking of the club' charade