Hope not.....

[Sandridge]

Would like to hear RWOers's opinions on the fact that some clubs -St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood, e.g. - have come out and said they're confident they're in the clear while some clubs, us included, have said nothing. Lots of different ways of interpreting the fact that some clubs are going public but some aren't. Any thoughts?

[Primmy]

They are in Melbourne. Massive pressure.

the quiet ones are in states that have
a) have had it up to here with adverse publicity,
b) have had it up to here with prior drug allegations - probably keeping quiet, or someone will tell Kirky and he will get mad as hell
c) have media that think only NRL exists - AFL barely get a look in anyway.

[justabaraker]

Would like to hear RWOers's opinions on the fact that some clubs -St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood, e.g. - have come out and said they're confident they're in the clear while some clubs, us included, have said nothing. Lots of different ways of interpreting the fact that some clubs are going public but some aren't. Any thoughts?

I don't know much about media management but I'd guess that anything a club says in this climate, drags the spotlight onto them. And who needs that ? Like Primmy says, hear in Sydney, the press doesn't care much about AFL so it suits to have them beat up on NRL.
BTW, I reckon that's the reason that we never hear much from the Swans at this early time of the year, and why they don't try too hard in the NAB Cup.
I suppose you either get on the front foot to get the defensive punches in early, or you try to fly under the radar.

Possible answer ?

[ernie koala]

Would like to hear RWOers's opinions on the fact that some clubs -St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood, e.g. - have come out and said they're confident they're in the clear while some clubs, us included, have said nothing. Lots of different ways of interpreting the fact that some clubs are going public but some aren't. Any thoughts?

Given it's not possible for any club to be 100% sure all players are clean.... Making premature statements seems as much about hope and reassurance as it does about fact.
I get more reassurance from clubs that don't weigh in.

[sharp9]

Swans have answered a questionaire from one of the papers and categorically said they have nothing to worry about as far as they know.

Same report (I think) say that other player/club implicated would know they were under investigation

[bodgie]

Would like to hear RWOers's opinions on the fact that some clubs -St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood, e.g. - have come out and said they're confident they're in the clear while some clubs, us included, have said nothing. Lots of different ways of interpreting the fact that some clubs are going public but some aren't. Any thoughts?

Armstrong was very vocal and aggressive toward anyone that suggested or accused that he used drugs. Had complete faith in his systems.

[jono2707]

Would like to hear RWOers's opinions on the fact that some clubs -St. Kilda, Hawthorn and Collingwood, e.g. - have come out and said they're confident they're in the clear while some clubs, us included, have said nothing. Lots of different ways of interpreting the fact that some clubs are going public but some aren't. Any thoughts?

I'm glad we're staying quiet:
* we have a massive season that we're preparing for. Weighing in to this whole thing would only be more of a distraction.
* there are a number of NRL clubs in the spotlight here in Sydney in this issue. We aren't.
* the club must have a lot of faith in past behaviour in this field - unlike Essendon for example.
* We are a club that has placed great pride in our integrity and the way we go about things has earned utmost respect throughout the country - if we feel we don't need to weigh into this issue as an organisation, we shouldn't.

[Primmy]

I agree with you jono. And another thing occurs to me. We have a group of men who are leadership, we have mentors for each player, and each of those young men are approachable, have high integrity, and every player knows he can talk to them, and to his captains if something is not right. Its an open door. Roosey set that example way back. He opened the door to his office (after Rocket had it closed during his tenure), and everyone was encouraged to drop in and chat. Communication was encouraged at every level all the time and that hasn't changed.

One other thing. It is reported that Goodsey gave each and every indig all star his contact details. He wants them to call him if they are troubled by anything. Now that is communication.

When you have communication you do not have the case of Not Knowing where you stand and how to fix things. Just ask Mitch Morton.

In general they draft players whose intelligence they rate not just those boys who can play the game.

[justabaraker]

I agree with you jono. And another thing occurs to me. We have a group of men who are leadership, we have mentors for each player, and each of those young men are approachable, have high integrity, and every player knows he can talk to them, and to his captains if something is not right. Its an open door. Roosey set that example way back. He opened the door to his office (after Rocket had it closed during his tenure), and everyone was encouraged to drop in and chat. Communication was encouraged at every level all the time and that hasn't changed.

One other thing. It is reported that Goodsey gave each and every indig all star his contact details. He wants them to call him if they are troubled by anything. Now that is communication.

When you have communication you do not have the case of Not Knowing where you stand and how to fix things. Just ask Mitch Morton.

In general they draft players whose intelligence they rate not just those boys who can play the game.

I'm with you on all those points Primmy. But it was interesting to watch OFFSIDERS (ABCTV1) yesterday - the point of the ACC message to clubs is that you (clubs) wouldn't know anyway, and you won't know until we shock you with the truth. There might be secret phone-tapping, or deep-throats giving secret intelligance.
The CC passes the info to the police and the drug agency, but no-one particularly names names to the clubs nor the AFL. The police might be investigating match-fixing or blackmail, but they are not especially interested in doping. So one arm of the investigation doesn't share info with another arm.
This is seriously messy, with no protocols, no legal process to follow, no official way for information to be exchanged. The Fairfax papers this morning have it all laid out.

[Meg]

The Offsiders panel made some very sobering observations on this matter. The program can still be seen on ABC IView.

[penga]

Speaking as someone who recently did 48 weeks of chemo, where I had to inject myself in hte stomach every week, I knew exactly what I was taking and why. Any dipstick that doesn't bother to ask or check, is not worthy of running in the human race, much less earning squillions playing footy

While it is unfortunate to hear that you had to go through the course of chemo recently, I couldn't disagree more with your relation of that to supplements that athletes would be using. Make no mistake, our beloved Bloods would be using many, many supplements, which to a degree are performance enhancing; it is just whether or not they are on the WADA list of banned substances.

At the very least, they would be using a pre-workout, amino acids, and protein powder. That's just basic workout supplements. Now, for instance, if you go to aminoz.com.au and do a search for protein, it comes back with 1,148 products. There is no way known that each player would be working out what they need. The sports scientists and doctors would have each indiviual on a specifically catered supplement regime, and there would be a trust there that "doc knows best".

Do a little experiment, go to aminoz.com.au and try to ascertain which supplements you would be using for a training program that you may take up. The task would be quickly overwhelming. So even when you do do the research and look at every ingredient of each supplement that you would be interested, it would be an extremely time consuming process, where it usually comes down to asking for an expert's advice, and following up on that. So if that expert has untoward methods it would be extremely difficult for a club to pick up on that, not until the drug testers come along, and everyone is in big do do.

Any dipstick that doesn't bother to ask or check, is not worthy of running in the human race, much less earning squillions playing footy is a very ignorant statement to make. A vast majority of players that would be caught up in doping would have no idea of what was going on. That's not to say that there is plenty of potential for players, like Aker as haid, that have nothing to lose so they go down the doping path to eek the last amount of juice in their careers.

[Nico]

All this debate about what players put into or are able to put into their mouths, both on RWO and Bigfooty is really interesting to observe. On the recreational drugs issues it is not hard to work out which posters on Big Footy are drug tackers. They are the ones who defend the right of people to take them and rant on about the non affects of speed, ecstacy etc and not being addictive. Try telling this crap to parents of kids who have gone to the "other side" before they are 18 because they have tried this stuff. They are the poor buggers who have had a psychotic episode due to these drugs and in many cases have a family history of psychosis. Try being a mental health person on the end of the phone who every day takes calls from parents of "new" cases, who has to tell them that sorry they are not bad enough to be classified at a certain level. That same worker has to go the homes of these people and observe the utter devastation of the parents. No wonder there is a such a turnover of these health workers. Sure a lot of drug takers are lucky to escape this fate but what about the lethal mixture of alcohol and recreational drugs in society. The violence the police have told me is due to the moonshine pedalled by premises, mixed with drugs.

A chap I know in his 30's recently went with a mate early one evening, to a Melbourne CBD nightclub and were having a beer at the bar and were asked if they were buying or selling. They looked around and they were the only ones drinking alcohol at the time. Funny about that he said, but he didn't want to there later when grog was consumed, so they were out of there.

How do I know about the mental health issues I mentioned above; my daughter is an expert on mental health in adolescents aged 16 to 25. I talk to her about this stuff and she shakes her head when she hears of the claptrap people write and think. You had better believe it is a mindfield out on the streets. Penga, great post; there is a new society flog out every minute trying to hoodwink and get a dishonest quid out of anyone they can, and unfortunately most people are so trusting and naive.

Jockeys have very strict rules on what they can ingest. For instance codiene is a prohibited substance which is found in Nurofen Plus. If they have a crook back etc and they need to take it they must be free from it on race day and tell the stewards they have used it. A positive test can get a severe ban of I think around 6 months. The reason being if can have an affect on their ability to ride safely. I can't believe that every AFL player doesn't have a medical card with everything they take as in medication and supplements as required of every racehorse, and that these cards are not randomly monitored by an independent agency. Some linements for instance can have a banned substance that can enter the bloodstream of racehorses.

[Rod_]

Time to buy into this issue a little. (Not that I think our team have crossed the thin white line)

If the AFL or the Crime commission finds a player, or a team has used an illegal product. (Drugs or the what ever) Will the AFL 3 strikes policy still be used? My understanding this is for recreational drug abuse and the "steroid or ?? is to enhance performance. Will this drug be handled the same way with 3 strikes...? Will we ever find out who and what extent...

Just asking and all.

Because I am not up with all the do's and don'ts...

Teams and players usually play by the rules. I would expect most clubs would get as close to breaking these rule as possible. Within 0.01% of breaking them.

I can just see the rules of the future will be a few thousand of pages long with interpretations and explanations...

Rod_

PS Bring on the footy!

[Wardy]

Wardy, one of the things the ACC report says is that growth hormone-releasing peptides have become increasingly popular as an anti-ageing product and that anti-ageing clinics have become major distributors of peptides around Australia. So in fact the folk at the Hunters Hill Croquet Club might be typical of the markets of concern.

oh please - the strongest thing those people would have is a Pimms with their cucumber sandwiches.

As its said - the Club at this point is Essendon - and one other player from another club - hardly across the board is it?

[stellation]

oh please - the strongest thing those people would have is a Pimms with their cucumber sandwiches.

As its said - the Club at this point is Essendon - and one other player from another club - hardly across the board is it?

Off topic, but I relatively recently was handed a Pimms with lemon, lime and bitters and it was actually quite nice!