Best 22 for 2014

[goswannies]

Thanks GS - I enjoyed the info here, as I don't know anything about the 30's side. You're either incredibly well-researched or incredibly old

Haha you're welcome I feel pretty old, but I am an avid reader about all things Swans.

Recommended reading for the Swans halcyon days of the 1930s:
- Bloodstained Angels: the Rise & Fall of the Foreign Legion
- In the Blood
- Swanlake Spectacular: how the Swans Won the 1933 Premiership
- The Great Laurie Nash
- The Encyclopedia of League Footballers (Swans edition)

There are a few others but this lot gives a pretty comprehensive overview of what transpired during that period & the characters involved including Club President & benefactor Archie Crofts who made it all happen (the Dr Edelsten of his time).

One of my prized possessions is a piece of paper signed by about 18 members of the Swans 1934 side including Bob Pratt, Laurie Nash & Herb Matthews, Hec McKay, Brigton Diggins, Ossie Bertram, Peter Reville, Linton Richards, Alan Welch, Dinny Kelleher, Jock MacKenzie, Jock Fahey, Reg Humphries, Bill Faul & Terry Brain.

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Serious question: Would the 2014 Swans team - on paper - be the strongest Swans team to ever run out onto the field?

Actually, with a little more reflection, it would have been hard to match the ON PAPER sides of 1986-87. With the book ends of the ever reliably miserly Rod Carter & under-rated, yet spectacular Warwick Capper (the only Swan to kick a tonne between Pratt & Lockett); & a mid-field boasting Brownlow medalists Greg Williams & Gerard Healy, aided by State reps Stevie Wright, Barry Mitchell, David Murphy & David Bolton. Bernard Toohey, Neil Cordy, Dennis Carroll, & Mark Browning were also state reps from that era & young Mark Bayes soon would be ... & Merv Naegle & Ian Roberts were fairly handy too!

On paper that is a formidable line-up. Ok, no premiership success. They were possibly a talented ruckman short of the ultimate glory ... BUT remember, they didn't get to play finals at the SCG (which they would have earned & would have afforded them a considerable advantage ... & injuries to key players leading into the 86-87 finals series hampered their performances). The Swans also had a side in 1987 that scored 30+ goals in 3 consecutive weeks (averaging 200+ points for those 3 games & being the only VFL/AFL side to have scores 200+ points in consecutive matches. They also fell 2 points short of the then league record score. I think that, on paper, playing at its best, the 1987 side would also be a contender for our best side.

[Bloodthirsty]

Haha you're welcome I feel pretty old, but I am an avid reader about all things Swans.

Recommended reading for the Swans halcyon days of the 1930s:
- Bloodstained Angels: the Rise & Fall of the Foreign Legion
- In the Blood
- Swanlake Spectacular: how the Swans Won the 1933 Premiership

Well those books do have extremely cool names, so I might read them after all.

[goswannies]

Well those books do have extremely cool names, so I might read them after all.

Swanlake & In the Blood are on eBay all the time.

Blood Stained Angels is harder to get as its out of print but there is one online secondhand bookstore that has had it in a couple of times.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Playing in successive grand finals from 1933-36, the Foreign Legion side of the 1930s was hands down better than any other side we have fielded.

Never understood the fixation with the 30's "Golden Era" - our greatest teams were those of the late '80's (after the amalgamation and change in uniform). Sadly they seem to have been forgotton or are only mentioned in passing.

[wolftone57]

Playing in successive grand finals from 1933-36, the Foreign Legion side of the 1930s was hands down better than any other side we have fielded. No disrespect to Tippett, but as a full forward, he'd be lucky to get a gig as Pratt's boot studder. Nash was the Buddy Franklin of his time ... except consistent & more reliable (heck, Laurie kicked 18 goals in a State game for Victoria once ... & wasn't even shifted to full forward until quarter time!). Herb Matthews Snr could equate to Goodsey (one less Brownlow, but in the 1930s Herb was coming into his prime, 2014 Adam is past his prime). In that 1930s side South recruited nearly a dozen bonafide interstate stars. Currently we draft less than half a dozen kids with potential a year, most of whom don't make it. While our current midfield is generally considered a classy white collar midfield (as opposed to the hard working blue collar midfield of the early 2000s), the polish of the the 1930s mids were reportedly like a white collar on ball brigade with nappysan enhancements ... oozing class from every pore! I suspect that even given the disparity of eras & professionalism (& increase in average height over the decades), we would take our 1930s ruckman over Pyke of 2014. Ok maybe that's a stretch given our tallest follower of the 1933 side was 187cm (though he weighed 101kg) but around the ground they would have been more effective & Terry Brain would have roved better to Pyke's tap work.
It would be interesting to run a computer simulation of a game between the 1930s era side and our 2014 team to see how they'd fare based on the statistical averages of each player (I recall that they've done it for cricket in the past to compare sides of different eras).

2014 will hopefully be an amazing side at its best, but for me, the sides of 1933-36 were probably superior on paper AND on performance.

With all that they won only one premiership. It takes a champion team to win premierships not a team of champions and that team proves it every time!

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Haha you're welcome I feel pretty old, but I am an avid reader about all things Swans.

Recommended reading for the Swans halcyon days of the 1930s:
- Bloodstained Angels: the Rise & Fall of the Foreign Legion
- In the Blood
- Swanlake Spectacular: how the Swans Won the 1933 Premiership
- The Great Laurie Nash
- The Encyclopedia of League Footballers (Swans edition)

There are a few others but this lot gives a pretty comprehensive overview of what transpired during that period & the characters involved including Club President & benefactor Archie Crofts who made it all happen (the Dr Edelsten of his time).

One of my prized possessions is a piece of paper signed by about 18 members of the Swans 1934 side including Bob Pratt, Laurie Nash & Herb Matthews, Hec McKay, Brigton Diggins, Ossie Bertram, Peter Reville, Linton Richards, Alan Welch, Dinny Kelleher, Jock MacKenzie, Jock Fahey, Reg Humphries, Bill Faul & Terry Brain.

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Actually, with a little more reflection, it would have been hard to match the ON PAPER sides of 1986-87. With the book ends of the ever reliably miserly Rod Carter & under-rated, yet spectacular Warwick Capper (the only Swan to kick a tonne between Pratt & Lockett); & a mid-field boasting Brownlow medalists Greg Williams & Gerard Healy, aided by State reps Stevie Wright, Barry Mitchell, David Murphy & David Bolton. Bernard Toohey, Neil Cordy, Dennis Carroll, & Mark Browning were also state reps from that era & young Mark Bayes soon would be ... & Merv Naegle & Ian Roberts were fairly handy too!

On paper that is a formidable line-up. Ok, no premiership success. They were possibly a talented ruckman short of the ultimate glory ... BUT remember, they didn't get to play finals at the SCG (which they would have earned & would have afforded them a considerable advantage ... & injuries to key players leading into the 86-87 finals series hampered their performances). The Swans also had a side in 1987 that scored 30+ goals in 3 consecutive weeks (averaging 200+ points for those 3 games & being the only VFL/AFL side to have scores 200+ points in consecutive matches. They also fell 2 points short of the then league record score. I think that, on paper, playing at its best, the 1987 side would also be a contender for our best side.

Again Goswannies they were a team of champions and that is why they never won a premiership. If they had worked better together they would have won plenty.

[goswannies]

Never understood the fixation with the 30's "Golden Era" - our greatest teams were those of the late '80's (after the amalgamation and change in uniform). Sadly they seem to be forgotton or are only mentioned in passing.

It was a relocation not an amalgamation. The Swans moved the whole team from South Melbourne to Sydney. Brisbane & Fitzroy was arguably an amalgamation.

The fixation of the 30s was the recruitment of star players from Australia wide (WA, Tas, other VFL sides) & the development of local players into champion players (Pratt, Matthews). Melding them into a champion side that made four successive GF appearances with a premiership & played a brand of football that, on the whole, brushed aside teams that had dominated the previous decade.
The personalities of the time were larger than life. Pratt kicked 150 goals in a season (in fewer games than Hudson took to repeat the effort nearly half a century later) & when he asked why he didn't win the Swans B&F was told he was "spectacular, but not very effective". Not only could Pratt kick goals at a rate greater than Lockett, he flew higher & more often than Capper. Not much footage of Pratt's high flying exploits, but the still images are spectacular! & if Pratt was unexpectedly held quiet, 3 or 4 others reliably stepped up.
Laurie Nash would have been a gun full forward in ANY other team. He showed this later when he defected to the VFA & dominated there. But as we had a capable full forward, Nash alternated between CHF/CHB as needed. He dominated games off his own boot, & when asked who was the greatest player he'd ever seen, Nash answered that he saw him every morning when he shaved. By all accounts, he was probably right. & bear in mind, Nash achieved this while taking summer off to play cricket (he's still the only player to represent Australia without playing Sheffield Shield cricket).
People argue the 30s side only won 1 premiership, but on any given day either team can win (just ask Geelong who dominated regular season games with Ablett Snr under Malcom Blight, made grand finals but couldn't win a premiership). Also remember that for one Grand Final, we lost Pratt on the eve of the grand final when he was hit by a truck. Most experts suggest we'd have been 2 from 4 if not for that incident.
On top of this, South's 1930s exploits occurred during the Great Depression. A time when the nation clutched at any inspiration ... Bradman, Phar Lap & our Swans. Grocery store magnate & Swans magnate, Archie Crofts, used his own money to employ players in his stores, drawing recruits form Australia wide to create a team that mostly dominated for almost half a decade.
That, R&R, is why there is a fascination for the "Golden Era". We have no footage to confirm the written account. Was their brilliance embellished with the passage of time to elevate those men on a pedestal beyond their exploits & achievements? Does it matter? When it was the last thing Swans fans had to rejoice for 72 years, the 1930s side has my respect & my thanks.

... as does every Swans side & player who played before & since ...

With all that they won only one premiership. It takes a champion team to win premierships not a team of champions and that team proves it every time!

I think it's harsh to say that they weren't both a team of champions and a champion team. Slightly under achieved, but still delivered a premiership.

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Again Goswannies they were a team of champions and that is why they never won a premiership. If they had worked better together they would have won plenty.

That is a bit more accurate. But we did have some limitations. No SCG finals. Injuries (not an excuse, but an explanation). Salary cap (thus we spent a lot on big names but the depth wasn't there ... the gaps between our best & worst was pretty big, & filling the gaps when our best were out was often too great to bridge ... that's a problem with putting all your eggs in one buddy big basket ...). My point was that I think the 1930s were a Golden Era. The mid 80s were special. 2014 is full of hope. Why compare? Just enjoy

[aardvark]

Here's the Argus report....

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[Bloodthirsty]

Here's the Argus report....

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So Collingwood has been our bogey side since the beginning of time then?

[Ruck'n'Roll]

It was a relocation not an amalgamation. The Swans moved the whole team from South Melbourne to Sydney. Brisbane & Fitzroy was arguably an amalgamation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

You are incorrect, it was an amalgamation (the second in our history) not a relocation. And it led to three premierships in a row, easily our greatest era!
Please don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you, after all the club itself fails to pay proper respect, but as previously mentioned "Sadly they seem to have been forgotton or are only mentioned in passing."

[Bloods05]

You are incorrect, it was an amalgamation (the second in our history) not a relocation. And it led to three premierships in a row, easily our greatest era!
Please don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you, after all the club itself fails to pay proper respect, but as previously mentioned "Sadly they seem to have been forgotton or are only mentioned in passing."

What? I have no idea what you're talking about. Please explain.

[goswannies]

Never understood the fixation with the 30's "Golden Era" - our greatest teams were those of the late '80's (after the amalgamation and change in uniform). Sadly they seem to have been forgotton or are only mentioned in passing.

You are incorrect, it was an amalgamation (the second in our history) not a relocation. And it led to three premierships in a row, easily our greatest era!
Please don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you, after all the club itself fails to pay proper respect, but as previously mentioned "Sadly they seem to have been forgotton or are only mentioned in passing."

Ah ... I see the confusion! You're talking about the VFA 1880s not the VFL 1980s!
In both instances we had good teams AND a change of uniform.
I don't think I would have been the only one who misinterpreted you.
As for it being a great team in the 1880s, it's even harder to assess those sides than the 1930s & the opposition was poorer (all the best sides joined the VFL in 1897, so the VFA if the late 1800s had good & very average sides); the only info we have is from vague newspaper reports; & the game was in its infancy.
But point taken

[stellation]

I think we'll see more of Buddy on the wing and on the ball than we will up forward.....

I suspect you're right that overall we'll see him operating around the wing more than we'll see him operating from the goal square, the CHF style role that Jesse played is almost tailor made for Buddy's strengths. I think where he lines up for round 1 will probably depend on how ready Goodesy is to go at the start of the season.

[Bloodthirsty]

If Goodsey was on Buddy's contract he'd be required to play for 2-3 more years. And Goodesy has had an extremely resilient injury-free (virtually) career. I agree with the club picking up Buddy the way they did, but it's ominous when you compare him to our best and virtually healthiest ever.

[penga]

You can't ignore Craig Bird in your best 22s. He was 8th in the B & F, which is a fair indication that he would be the 9th picked player come next season.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Ah ... I see the confusion! You're talking about the VFA 1880s not the VFL 1980s!
In both instances we had good teams AND a change of uniform.
I don't think I would have been the only one who misinterpreted you.
As for it being a great team in the 1880s, it's even harder to assess those sides than the 1930s & the opposition was poorer (all the best sides joined the VFL in 1897, so the VFA if the late 1800s had good & very average sides); the only info we have is from vague newspaper reports; & the game was in its infancy.
But point taken

I was hoping someone on RWO would work it out. Congratulations goswannies

You have made me a happy old crank . . . . now before I return this goldfish thread to it's original purpose:

Sonny Elms' triple premiership side, nly lost 6 matches in 3 years (they won 57). And while there was variability of the quality of the sides in those days I'm not sure there premierships should be discarded because of that. We would probably have to discard our 2012 flag for the same reason (GWS, Gold Coast, Melbourne anyone).