Jake Carlisle

[0918330512]

I don't understand why people get caught up with the Father / Son issue? Football is a business of chess pieces. Tony Shaw would tell you that Rhyce Shaw has had better years at the Swans.

When they introduce an uncle/nephew recruiting rule I'll give a rat's fat clacker about Tony's opinion - Ray Shaw is Rhyce & Heath's father

[liz]

First, it is not a foregone conclusion that Heeney and Dunkley will draw bids before ours in the first round, and in the Heeney case, from another state. You would think Heeney is mentally committed to the Swans, and teams want players that want to play for them. Since these selections are made before trade week, if a club commits its first round pick at this time, they lose a big trading option before the trade period even begins.

Another club will bid for a FS or academy player if they are close to certain that the club with first dibs will match the offer. It's about keeping that club honest (not allowing them to get a huge bargain). If our first round pick lands up reflecting where we currently are on the ladder, and Heeney keeps up the form he has shown on the AIS tour and the early season TAC Cup games, I think it is very unlikely that we won't be forced to use that first pick on him.

[0918330512]

I thought Red and White was about guesswork.

Often it's about making stuff up, so your "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" fits in quite nicely

I'm sure if Carlisle makes his way to the Swans in the offseason, then you will write a well done post for me

I'm equally sure that if Carlisle stays at Essendon or moves to some other club because of their "Totally Made Up Wanky Lifestyle Dividend" you'll start a new thread that apologizes to the rest of RWOers for the hypothesized time wasting drivel that's in this thread?

[royboy42]

Often it's about making stuff up, so your "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" fits in quite nicely



I'm equally sure that if Carlisle stays at Essendon or moves to some other club because of their "Totally Made Up Wanky Lifestyle Dividend" you'll start a new thread that apologizes to the rest of RWOers for the hypothesized time wasting drivel that's in this thread?

Steady now. We try to play the ball here, rather than the man.

[Ludwig]

Another club will bid for a FS or academy player if they are close to certain that the club with first dibs will match the offer. It's about keeping that club honest (not allowing them to get a huge bargain). If our first round pick lands up reflecting where we currently are on the ladder, and Heeney keeps up the form he has shown on the AIS tour and the early season TAC Cup games, I think it is very unlikely that we won't be forced to use that first pick on him.

The Swans could let it be known that they won't be using their first round pick on Heeney. Then it becomes a poker game to see who flinches first. In the end it's really depends on whether he's worth a pick in the mid-teens. He sounds like a good prospect though. Maybe we will get a better feel for his worth if he can play a few more games with the reserves team.

[0918330512]

Steady now. We try to play the ball here, rather than the man.

Apologies to Matt80 & royboy42 ... post was meant to be a Hanners attempt at the ball, but came across as a Chappy hit on the man. Will an early guilty plea get me off?

[Matt80]

Often it's about making stuff up, so your "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" fits in quite nicely



I'm equally sure that if Carlisle stays at Essendon or moves to some other club because of their "Totally Made Up Wanky Lifestyle Dividend" you'll start a new thread that apologizes to the rest of RWOers for the hypothesized time wasting drivel that's in this thread?

I have brought classification to a Swans Key Brand Benefit.

You can continue to believe that the "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" means nothing, but here are some truths to support my argument that it does exist:

Do you honestly think Buddy was excited about the lifestyle offered at the Pickett Fence Houses of Breakfast Point? Do you think he and Jacinta would have spent their downtime at their favourite little Cafe at Rhodes Shopping Centre? Could he catch up with Kurtly Beele in the training facility next to the GWS facility at Homebush? He liked Moore Park and he liked the Eastern Suburbs! That's a fact. I don't think it was the major driver in his decision to join the Swans, but we all know he was excited about being in Bondi. This is the "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" at work.

A read a story that Tom D was on his way to Sydney to play for Sydney Uni before the Swans came calling. He could smell that Bondi salt in the air during his darkest days at Punt Road. This is the "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" at work.

Kurt Tippett didn't find family members in the Greater Western Sydney area. This is the Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend at work.

When the time comes to secure young Dunkley's signature I don't think he will be driven around Tempe and Alexandria. He will be driven down Oxford Street past Bondi Junction, Down Bondi Road, along Bondi Beach, through Bronte, Tamarama, Coogee, Maroubra and the Randwick Racecourse. This is the "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" at work.

The "Eastern Suburbs Lifestyle Dividend" is at work. It's not the major reason players want to play at the Swans, but it does ad to the appeal.

Serious football people have to acknowledge that lifestyle is important to the retention and recruitment of players.

[Matt80]

I agree with you on all counts Matt. So I'm going to put down a few words in your defence.

First, it is not a foregone conclusion that Heeney and Dunkley will draw bids before ours in the first round, and in the Heeney case, from another state. You would think Heeney is mentally committed to the Swans, and teams want players that want to play for them. Since these selections are made before trade week, if a club commits its first round pick at this time, they lose a big trading option before the trade period even begins.

Maybe our list assessment will change at year end, but as of now, our tall KPD stocks are most in question. So it's not unreasonable to look for a trade option that fills this gap.

Although Tom Mitchell has the makings of a star, he has plenty of competition for his type of player in our side. It just so happens that the Swans are particularly strong in the areas Tom Mitchell excels, so he becomes a realistic trade-able option. There is no point in keeping top line players who can't get into our side, or by playing, is keeping an equally top line player out of the lineup.

Besides the likely drafting of Heeney and Dunks, I rate Robinson, Jones and Hewitt as very likely AFL players. All can play inside and probably offer more pace on the outside. That's a lot of players to try to find room for in an already full midfield.

Mitchell has already made a bit of a name for himself as a potential star, so would have good trade value. In fact, he is probably our most high valued midfielder not currently in the side. Under these circumstances, why shouldn't Mitchell be considered as a trade option to land a good KPD?

Thanks for the support Ludwig. Can we put Heeney on the rookie list like we did with Lloyd Perris?

Is Perris a likely AFL midfielder?

[ugg]

Thanks for the support Ludwig. Can we put Heeney on the rookie list like we did with Lloyd Perris?

No because Perris was drafted on the NSW scholarship scheme which is not subject to the bidding system, whereas Heeney will be drafted via the Swans Academy which is.

[ernie koala]

First, it is not a foregone conclusion that Heeney and Dunkley will draw bids before ours in the first round

Although Tom Mitchell has the makings of a star, he has plenty of competition for his type of player in our side. It just so happens that the Swans are particularly strong in the areas Tom Mitchell excels, so he becomes a realistic trade-able option. There is no point in keeping top line players who can't get into our side, or by playing, is keeping an equally top line player out of the lineup.

Besides the likely drafting of Heeney and Dunks, I rate Robinson, Jones and Hewitt as very likely AFL players. All can play inside and probably offer more pace on the outside. That's a lot of players to try to find room for in an already full midfield.

It's also no forgone conclusion that Heeney, Dunkley, Robinson, Jones or Hewitt will give Mitchell competition for his spot.....So far it's NIL games between them.

Don't get me wrong, I too get excited about future players being drafted to the club, like the list above...

But general consensus is that the draft is a crap shoot, therefore until these players have played some senior footy it's a big

stretch to assume they will just step in and compete with the likes of Tom Mitchell and make him a tradable commodity.

[Ludwig]

We're talking about young players here who don't have many runs on the board. Players like Jones and Hewitt have impressed at every level they've played and were highly rated by most recruiters, so you would think they are a good chance succeed. Lloyd is a case in point. He was good junior player overlooked in the main draft. He's consistently played well in the reserves and brought that form into the seniors. Biggs also didn't look out of place last year. So we have some good benchmarks, even though there's plenty of speculation as well.

[Matt80]

Carlisle would be an amazing pick up, but I'll propose another option for key defence:

Nathan Brown of Collingwood is a good key defender who is 25 years old. He is currently playing in the VFL despite Ben Reid still being out. He is now probably ranked as there 4th key defender behind Ben Reid, Jack Frost and Lachlan Keefe.

He recently signed another contract at Collingwood, but would ad a lot to our list.

He would be a good option to support the rehabilitation of Alex Johnson and the development of Aliir.

He would cost a decent player with a 2nd round pick I would suspect.

Not sure what his intentions are!

[tasmania60]

Mate i know defence may be a problem but why give Tom Mitchell , wheres the loyalty. Sends out bad vibe shouldn't get rid of one of your family ,that's what it is ,remember his dad. All the old Swans fathers would scream blue murder . Next couple of years interesting . Just recruit defenders !

[Matt80]

Mate i know defence may be a problem but why give Tom Mitchell , wheres the loyalty. Sends out bad vibe shouldn't get rid of one of your family ,that's what it is ,remember his dad. All the old Swans fathers would scream blue murder . Next couple of years interesting . Just recruit defenders !

Didn't Barry Mitchell leave the Swans for Collingwood in the early 90. You can scream loyalty, but Mark Bayes is the only good player from the High Flying Swanette Days who stuck with club during their lowest point in the early 90s.

Am I incorrect about Barry Mitchell moving on to greener pastures?

[goswannies]

Mate i know defence may be a problem but why give Tom Mitchell , wheres the loyalty. Sends out bad vibe shouldn't get rid of one of your family ,that's what it is ,remember his dad. All the old Swans fathers would scream blue murder . Next couple of years interesting . Just recruit defenders !

While I wholeheartedly agree that Tom shouldn't be traded, there are a number of instances where father-son recruits have been traded
Rhyce Shaw
Sean Dempster
Nick Davis
JPK
Mitch Morton
Heath Shaw
David Bourke

Sadly footy is a business ... but for me it would be bad business to let Tom go at this stage

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't Barry Mitchell leave the Swans for Collingwood in the early 90. You can scream loyalty, but Mark Bayes is the only good player from the High Flying Swanette Days who stuck with club during their lowest point in the early 90s.

Am I incorrect about Barry Mitchell moving on to greener pastures?

Harsh on Steve Wright & Dennis Carroll

& yup Barry went to Collingwood for a season then resurrected his career at Carlton