James Frawley

[mcs]

Alex Ferguson of Man United would let go of a good player if he knew that there was some talent coming through in the youth team. That's how players like Beckam, Scholes, and the Neville brothers got first team football.

The Swans academy is like the Man United youth team. The progress of Heeney and Mills has been charted for over 4 years. The club knows more about the abilities of these two players than any other draftee in the market. These two players also understand more about what is required at the Swans than other draftees.

It's a good bet without serious injury that they are going to be very good players.

I'm not saying that they won't be very fine players - but again, its still a lottery and 'potential' at this stage is just that. If we were talking about 2 proven AFL players that were guaranteed to be coming to the Swans, it would be a completely different story.

And you can't compare us to Man U - recruitment within the Premier league is very different to that of the AFL. Have a guess where one of your golden boys (Giggs) did all his junior training pretty much before ending up at United? It most certainly wasn't part of the Man U youth team! For decades now, the big clubs in world football can pick and choose, often from a very young age, to ensure they get the best talent.

Whilst the academy obviously can choose players based on ability, we can't go and pinch them from other academies, or buy players in from overseas. And I'd like to see a list of players Ferguson sold just so he could give those younger guys a go. The whole moral of the story really is - if they are as brilliant as they supposed to be, they'll find a spot in the 22. We shouldnt just clear the decks for the sake of it (unless we are in a position where we have no choice).

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During trade period last year there was a lot of talk about Nick Smith wanting to go home. There was even talk of swap for Varcoe. Personally that makes no sense to me because good backmen is what we need not small forwards. Anyone have any info on this rumour?

Nick Smith has already re-signed till the end of 2016.

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014-03-17/swans-resign-important-defender

[Nico]

Interesting discussion from Mike Shehan on last nights "On The Couch" regarding James Frawley potentially being a target for the Swans. Mike mentioned Tom Mitchell as a possible trade with the Demons for James Frawley. Mike did say the idea does come from "left field". Mike also said that Mitchill had spent some time living with the Roos family. Gerard Healy was not enthused by the idea, but mentioned that he would take Tom Mitchell over a pick 6 compensation pick.

Mike Shehan is the most esteemed football writer in AFL history and has now raised the Tom Mitchill trade issue. I think the Tom Mitchell trade story is now more than a Matt80 beat up.

I don't think we would have the salary cap space to meet Frawley's demands but you never know what the Swans can do as they have beaten the odds with Tippett and Franklin. Frawley would be a valuable addition to the backline if we could get him.

Any thoughts?

Mike made it up. By saying "out of left field" he was floating an idea. What got me is both he and Dunstall said he wasn't getting a game with us. No mention of injury and the Swans man didn't say. "hang on he has been injured". And these are blokes that live and breath AFL footy.

[mcs]

This is one of the other trades I think may occur at the end of this year or next year. Fremantle and West Coast need key defenders more than we do. The 1st round pick would be handy depending on how much the WA teams want Jetta.

We could use the first round to engineer a swap with Essendon for one of their better key backs like Carslie ( depending on ASADA).

If Mitchell and Jetta leave we may have the cap room for Frawley. We could then use another two first round picks in the draft to go with Heeney.

These are all hypotheticals and there is still a lot of water to go under the bridge. Losing Jetta will hurt more in the short term than Mitchell.

Please don't everyone get hysterical over Jetta.

So you want to flog off both mitchell and jetta to fit in a mediocre defender in Frawley in plus some other overpaid, and most likely overhyped defender as well?

That's not to say that it wouldn't suprise me if Jetta did seek to go home at some stage.

[Matt80]

During trade period last year there was a lot of talk about Nick Smith wanting to go home. There was even talk of swap for Varcoe. Personally that makes no sense to me because good backmen is what we need not small forwards. Anyone have any info on this rumour?

I believe he is signed up to the end of 2015. I think players like Smith and Jetta would be more likely to want to return to their home states if we won the flag this year.

The proposition does not hold me with fear as the Swans will get first round draft picks and manage their salary cap at the same time.

I think the great Brisbane Lions teams of the early 2000s let too many of their stars retire at the club and this has led to a weakening of the team over the last decade. Sometimes it's prudent to get some good currency at the draft table by letting some good players go if they desire. In 2009 we let go of Jolly and Buchanan. We got Jetta and Reid for those two players. That's good business.

[Matt80]

So you want to flog off both mitchell and jetta to fit in a mediocre defender in Frawley in plus some other overpaid, and most likely overhyped defender as well?

That's not to say that it wouldn't suprise me if Jetta did seek to go home at some stage.

I don't want to flog off Mitchell and Jetta. They will tell the club what they want to do at the end of the year. One may do a Darren Jolly, the other may want regular senior football. Frawley would cost us nothing at the draft. We could have an additional two first round picks to go with Heeney. That called building the future if you pick correctly.

[Matt80]

[QUOTE=mcs;646921]I'm not saying that they won't be very fine players - but again, its still a lottery and 'potential' at this stage is just that. If we were talking about 2 proven AFL players that were guaranteed to be coming to the Swans, it would be a completely different story.

And you can't compare us to Man U - recruitment within the Premier league is very different to that of the AFL. Have a guess where one of your golden boys (Giggs) did all his junior training pretty much before ending up at United? It most certainly wasn't part of the Man U youth team! For decades now, the big clubs in world football can pick and choose, often from a very young age, to ensure they get the best talent.

Whilst the academy obviously can choose players based on ability, we can't go and pinch them from other academies, or buy players in from overseas. And I'd like to see a list of players Ferguson sold just so he could give those younger guys a go.

He sold Paul Ince, Andre Shevchenko, Mark Hughes and Lee Sharpe in a two year period. Great Business.



Nick Smith has already re-signed till the end of 2016.

[Nico]

I'm not saying that they won't be very fine players - but again, its still a lottery and 'potential' at this stage is just that. If we were talking about 2 proven AFL players that were guaranteed to be coming to the Swans, it would be a completely different story.

And you can't compare us to Man U - recruitment within the Premier league is very different to that of the AFL. Have a guess where one of your golden boys (Giggs) did all his junior training pretty much before ending up at United? It most certainly wasn't part of the Man U youth team! For decades now, the big clubs in world football can pick and choose, often from a very young age, to ensure they get the best talent.

Whilst the academy obviously can choose players based on ability, we can't go and pinch them from other academies, or buy players in from overseas. And I'd like to see a list of players Ferguson sold just so he could give those younger guys a go. The whole moral of the story really is - if they are as brilliant as they supposed to be, they'll find a spot in the 22. We shouldnt just clear the decks for the sake of it (unless we are in a position where we have no choice).

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Nick Smith has already re-signed till the end of 2016.

Swans re-sign defender Nick Smith - sydneyswans.com.au

I think you can compare acadamies. Matt was giving examples of how MAN U move players on because they think they have the young talent to replace them. We can do exactly the same with our academy players. He didn't say all their players came from the academy. So Giggs came from somewhere else. So did plenty of our draftees. Heeney and Mills may very well be the last for some time. Man U can recruit players from anywhere in the world because it is a world game. We can recruit players from anywhere in Australia. Same principle applies.

[Conor_Dillon]

I still think Tayte Pears from Essendon would fit into our backline very nicely...and we'd get him for peanuts at the trade table. It would obviously hinge on ASADA though...

[0918330512]

Sometimes it's prudent to get some good currency at the draft table by letting some good players go if they desire. In 2009 we let go of Jolly and Buchanan. We got Jetta and Reid for those two players. That's good business.

Jolly wanted to return to Melbourne for family reasons, I believe ... so that has nothing to do with good business. We're a good club for letting him return in the middle of a newly inked contract so that his family life wasn't compromised. Jetta might go if it's a similar situation.
Buchanan was released when he was past his prime. Mitchell's prime is presumably approaching on the horizon.
If you're going to make comparisons, at least compare apples with apples.

I don't want to flog off Mitchell and Jetta. They will tell the club what they want to do at the end of the year. We could have an additional two first round picks to go with Heeney. That called building the future if you pick correctly.

And does anyone honestly think we'd get a first rounder for Jetta? I love him in red & white, but clubs rarely give away first round picks & if they do it's for a consistent, dominating game changing player. To me it's pure fantasy to think either WA club would give a first round pick for Jetts.

& if you're suggesting Mitchell is worthy of a 1st round pick why trade him?! ... if he's a genuine first rounder, he could develop into a gun. Otherwise we won't get a first round pick for him either. You're either underrating him as a player or overrating his trade value.

[Nico]

So you want to flog off both mitchell and jetta to fit in a mediocre defender in Frawley in plus some other overpaid, and most likely overhyped defender as well?

That's not to say that it wouldn't suprise me if Jetta did seek to go home at some stage.

I agree on Frawley, he is overrated. Firstly he is too short as a key defender for mine, secondly as P46 said he slaughters the footy and thirdly, when your side is getting flogged by 10 goals every week then you might expect he would be a more recognised player from the Demons. He was very much in the same predicament as his uncle Danny. When he played for the Saints he was getting bombarded every week, and got bags kicked on him. I'd like to know how James has gone with opponents. He is certainly way over the odds as far as his asking price goes.

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Mitchell will be back in the 1's soon and the argument will be put to rest.

[Matt80]

I agree on Frawley, he is overrated. Firstly he is too short as a key defender for mine, secondly as P46 said he slaughters the footy and thirdly, when your side is getting flogged by 10 goals every week then you might expect he would be a more recognised player from the Demons. He was very much in the same predicament as his uncle Danny. When he played for the Saints he was getting bombarded every week, and got bags kicked on him. I'd like to know how James has gone with opponents. He is certainly way over the odds as far as his asking price goes.

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Mitchell will be back in the 1's soon and the argument will be put to rest.

What about this for pace and commitment. There are some Swans qualities in this player. This was during his all Australian year.

James Frawley's chase on Lewis Jetta (Round 17, 2010 vs Sydney) - YouTube

[goswannies]

What about this for pace and commitment. There are some Swans qualities in this player. This was during his all Australian year.

James Frawley's chase on Lewis Jetta (Round 17, 2010 vs Sydney) - YouTube

Frawley is 4 years older and 4 years slower now.

[mcs]

I believe he is signed up to the end of 2015. I think players like Smith and Jetta would be more likely to want to return to their home states if we won the flag this year.

The proposition does not hold me with fear as the Swans will get first round draft picks and manage their salary cap at the same time.

I think the great Brisbane Lions teams of the early 2000s let too many of their stars retire at the club and this has led to a weakening of the team over the last decade. Sometimes it's prudent to get some good currency at the draft table by letting some good players go if they desire. In 2009 we let go of Jolly and Buchanan. We got Jetta and Reid for those two players. That's good business.

Its one thing moving one players at the tail end of their career,a s clubs should (as it looks like we are doing with ROK). Its another thing trading young players with most of their careers in front of them, just because you think you have the next best thing waiting in the wings. Jolly granted is a very good player, but he had genuine reasons to leave. Buchanan, as good as he was, is not of the quality that Mitchell most likely (even he has a risk of not making it too) will be.

I'm all for turning the list over where required, and making sure what happened at the Lions doesn't happen here. But that shouldn't include trading off very good players just because the new play toy in the room might be better. If it involves throwing out a play toy that, whilst being of great service in the past, doesn't really have a future, then so be it. That is footy in the professional era.

[mcs]

I think you can compare acadamies. Matt was giving examples of how MAN U move players on because they think they have the young talent to replace them. We can do exactly the same with our academy players. He didn't say all their players came from the academy. So Giggs came from somewhere else. So did plenty of our draftees. Heeney and Mills may very well be the last for some time. Man U can recruit players from anywhere in the world because it is a world game. We can recruit players from anywhere in Australia. Same principle applies.

But in the instances quoted, that was generally moving on players either past their used by date, or close to it. Here we are talking about pushing out young, high quality players. We can't do the same with our academy - we can't go and buy the best u/10's, tie them completely to our club, then bring through maybe half a dozen or a dozen in a couple of years. draft rules, as well as vested interests in the AFL would never let it happen. If we manage to get a 100+ gamer out of every 2nd year group of the Academy, then we will do exceptionally well.

Back on topic, do you really consider buying Frawley as 'building for the future', especially if it meant letting go one of our best young prospects, and a player in jetta who is a key part of a current team challenging for another flag? (assuming that he would want to go - I'm not saying we would voluntarily trade him)

I know we need to build for the future, but we also have the team to win multiple flags over the next few years, if things were to fall nicely. Buying an overpriced, and imo overrated defender is not going to significantly change our fortunes over the next couple of years. We would, in my opinion, be better off continuing a well worn, and very successful ploy of looking for players not getting opportunities, or who we can mould to fit the spot, at a much cheaper price, and working hard to keep the current parts of the puzzle together. I know we need to replace Teddy and Grundy in time, but are they an absolute desperate need that we wouldn't be able to follow the current methodology, or indeed invest enough to get one of our current prospects in the reserves up to scratch? Buying someone on big money, who may or may not deliver, could lead us to a point in a couple of years where we simply can't afford to keep players like Mills or Heeney - whereas more clever recuiting may make it easier to keep all the pieces of the jigsaw together.

Is this years draft so much better that we need to stockpile picks to get all the fantastic talent in it? I honestly don't know, but I haven't heard anything saying that its better or worse than other years?

[Melb Blood Bro]

I don't want to flog off Mitchell and Jetta. They will tell the club what they want to do at the end of the year. One may do a Darren Jolly, the other may want regular senior football. Frawley would cost us nothing at the draft. We could have an additional two first round picks to go with Heeney. That called building the future if you pick correctly.

That was good for our team but tragic for footy. Collingwood got a premiership out of Jolly. Oh' the humanity!