List changes and trade bait

[Conor_Dillon]

Has anyone suggested that we go after Stefan Martin yet? If not, let me be the first...we should try and poach Stefan Martin.

After spending virtually his whole career at clubs in the bottom 4-6 on the ladder he might jump at the opportunity to join a successful list - without asking for a big pay day.

Might be extremely wishful thinking but it couldn't hurt to ask..He's only 26 so we'd get at least 5 seasons out of him.

For what it's worth I do rate Pyke and the 2 young N's have impressed in their development to date but it's still one of our only weaker areas, albeit not disastrous.

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Whilst we're on the topic too, what are everyone's thoughts on Higgins? Could be the perfect replacement for Mal (if he goes) on a halfback and his class would add a bit of icing to our already pretty impressive cake. I doubt we could afford whatever price he is asking but similarly to what I said about Martin, maybe he would place more value on playing with a successful team than the $$.

[Matt80]

Has anyone suggested that we go after Stefan Martin yet? If not, let me be the first...we should try and poach Stefan Martin.

After spending virtually his whole career at clubs in the bottom 4-6 on the ladder he might jump at the opportunity to join a successful list - without asking for a big pay day.

Might be extremely wishful thinking but it couldn't hurt to ask..He's only 26 so we'd get at least 5 seasons out of him.

For what it's worth I do rate Pyke and the 2 young N's have impressed in their development to date but it's still one of our only weaker areas, albeit not disastrous.

- - - Updated - - -

Whilst we're on the topic too, what are everyone's thoughts on Higgins? Could be the perfect replacement for Mal (if he goes) on a halfback and his class would add a bit of icing to our already pretty impressive cake. I doubt we could afford whatever price he is asking but similarly to what I said about Martin, maybe he would place more value on playing with a successful team than the $$.

I like Stephan Martin but he has only had two good bursts in his career. He was brilliant as a sole Ruckman when Jamar went down in 2011. He has been even better at the same sole rucking role at Brisbane in the 2nd half of this year.

He needs to be the sole Ruckman to have an impact. He has shown limited ability as a tall defender / tall forward or relieving ruck.

I would not approach him unless you wanted to ruck him solo for 80% of game time.

He is also one of the most intelligent footballers with a VCE of 99. Added to that he is a good looking bloke. Sometimes God blesses people with everything!

[andy0414]

Wtf - we have Tippet and Buddy. We are struggling to find a spot for Reid what is the next guy going to do

We might have Buddy and Tippet but we will probably not have Goodes next year. As I said Tippet is iffy and if we loose him who takes his place? Reid has shown a lot of potential but is yet to dominate his position in any game. If we picked up a good forward in the draft this year, it would be two years before you could expect them to be a power. Yes it is a gamble but it is about planning for the future and we can afford to give up something in an area were we are strong to boost a potential weakness.

[Mr Magoo]

The issue is not a matter of getting rid of your worst players, but rather how to retain your best players and maintain a good team balance over a long period of time.

With the salary cap and free agency it's nearly impossible to stockpile good players, so you can only have so much quality depth before it becomes an issue. Liz has pointed out that it is even more difficult with KPPs, simply because there are fewer slots to fill. One of the reasons that Sam Reid's name keeps popping up with jounos is that he can't move up beyond the 3rd tall forward with Tippett and Buddy in lineup. I feel that the key to our KPP stocks is Alex Johnson. If he returns to fitness and form, I don't think we have a problem in this area, and we are looking good across the ground for some time to come. So there is no urgency to trade anyone this year.

If you are the Swans' list manager, you have to plan for the likelihood that one or more midfielders will be leaving one way or another simply because we've been a bit lucky with our with FS and academy players coming through as well as good drafting. It is perhaps more difficult being a list manager for a strong club than a weak club. If you're the Demons, almost any decent player will help your club, but at the Swans, how to manage the player mix, the salary cap and player expectations is a much more complicated matter.

I get the retenetion bit , but surely getting rid of your worst players is the ultimate goal. Of course the result of that is that you will have too many good players and some will leave but isnt that a good situation to be in. THe point with Mitchell (which is where all the discussion is centred) is that we dont have to worry this year about retaining him as he is still in contract so why trade him. You will get a KPP in the thirties in the draft anyway. Its only a rare few standout KPPs that need to be taken in the top ten, so my point is why trade away Mitchell when you are just as likely to get a reasonable KPP at thirty as you are at ten.

The ones you are likely to lose are the Jed Lambs of the world who arent well paid yet and dont think they are getting an opportunity. If I was to look at the Swans list I would think Biggs is more in that category than Mitchell.

[Ludwig]

Has anyone suggested that we go after Stefan Martin yet? If not, let me be the first...we should try and poach Stefan Martin.

After spending virtually his whole career at clubs in the bottom 4-6 on the ladder he might jump at the opportunity to join a successful list - without asking for a big pay day.

Might be extremely wishful thinking but it couldn't hurt to ask..He's only 26 so we'd get at least 5 seasons out of him.

For what it's worth I do rate Pyke and the 2 young N's have impressed in their development to date but it's still one of our only weaker areas, albeit not disastrous.

- - - Updated - - -

Whilst we're on the topic too, what are everyone's thoughts on Higgins? Could be the perfect replacement for Mal (if he goes) on a halfback and his class would add a bit of icing to our already pretty impressive cake. I doubt we could afford whatever price he is asking but similarly to what I said about Martin, maybe he would place more value on playing with a successful team than the $$.

Although I like Martin as well, I don't think he fits our situation. Martin will actually turn 28 in November, so he's not that much younger than Pyke. I think Pyke will adjust to being the number 1 ruckman and return to his 2013 form. I also have high hopes for both Naismith and Nanka. With Tippett and Reid in the team, we are likely to only play one ruckman for some time to come, so we should be okay going forward. I don't think we have space for Martin unless we don't offer Pyke another contract.

Even if both Shaw and Mal are gone next year, we are looking good in the small/medium defender department. Biggs and Rohan have both shown they can play the position and we also have Jones to come into the side. McVeigh can always replace Malceski as we will have lots midfield replacements for Macca. So that makes a no on Higgins. We have lots of depth and flexibility in this area.

[Matt80]

Although I like Martin as well, I don't think he fits our situation. Martin will actually turn 28 in November, so he's not that much younger than Pyke. I think Pyke will adjust to being the number 1 ruckman and return to his 2013 form. I also have high hopes for both Naismith and Nanka. With Tippett and Reid in the team, we are likely to only play one ruckman for some time to come, so we should be okay going forward. I don't think we have space for Martin unless we don't offer Pyke another contract.

Even if both Shaw and Mal are gone next year, we are looking good in the small/medium defender department. Biggs and Rohan have both shown they can play the position and we also have Jones to come into the side. McVeigh can always replace Malceski as we will have lots midfield replacements for Macca. So that makes a no on Higgins. We have lots of depth and flexibility in this area.

Great post Ludwig. I think that Heeney being a great ball user can rotate of half back and in the midfield in 2015 as we'll.

My pick is that Malceski and Mitchell will leave. Maybe Jetta if he is homesick. We would get good trade currency for those guys so the team would be able to develop for the future as well as being a top 6 team over the next three seasons.

[Ludwig]

I get the retenetion bit , but surely getting rid of your worst players is the ultimate goal. Of course the result of that is that you will have too many good players and some will leave but isnt that a good situation to be in. THe point with Mitchell (which is where all the discussion is centred) is that we dont have to worry this year about retaining him as he is still in contract so why trade him. You will get a KPP in the thirties in the draft anyway. Its only a rare few standout KPPs that need to be taken in the top ten, so my point is why trade away Mitchell when you are just as likely to get a reasonable KPP at thirty as you are at ten.

The ones you are likely to lose are the Jed Lambs of the world who arent well paid yet and dont think they are getting an opportunity. If I was to look at the Swans list I would think Biggs is more in that category than Mitchell.

Of course you want to keep your best players, but the system works in a way that effectively prevents you from stockpiling talent. The challenge for the list management team is to plan ahead so that we can get the best value for players that want to leave, either for more money or playing opportunity.

One example is how Hawthorn lost both Kennedy and McGlynn in 2009 and didn't get good value for them, although they did well with the draft picks they got in the trade. Even without those 2 Hawthorn still consistently had one of the best midfields going around. So Hawthorn were right that they could spare them, but didn't get maximum value in the trades.

It looks as though we are heading for a similar situation as Hawthorn in 2009 with not being able to afford spots to all your good players. So the question is: What do you do? I think crunch time will come next year for us when some hard decisions will need to be made. But just suppose Carlton are willing to offer Mitchell $3 mil. over 5 years and he's keen of taking the offer and Carlton will give us their 1st rounder, say pick 6. Would this be tempting?

[DA_Swan]

Of course you want to keep your best players, but the system works in a way that effectively prevents you from stockpiling talent. The challenge for the list management team is to plan ahead so that we can get the best value for players that want to leave, either for more money or playing opportunity.

One example is how Hawthorn lost both Kennedy and McGlynn in 2009 and didn't get good value for them, although they did well with the draft picks they got in the trade. Even without those 2 Hawthorn still consistently had one of the best midfields going around. So Hawthorn were right that they could spare them, but didn't get maximum value in the trades.

It looks as though we are heading for a similar situation as Hawthorn in 2009 with not being able to afford spots to all your good players. So the question is: What do you do? I think crunch time will come next year for us when some hard decisions will need to be made. But just suppose Carlton are willing to offer Mitchell $3 mil. over 5 years and he's keen of taking the offer and Carlton will give us their 1st rounder, say pick 6. Would this be tempting?

I agree with you that this it how it supposed to work and does work and I am sure that as we have shown in the past that if a player "wants" to leave we will try and do something for the right deal for the club - free agency will ensure that clubs do deals with contracted players rather than risk losing them for nothing when they come out of contract like potentially Malceski - in relation to Pick 6 for Mitchell might save us some money - I would prefer a player and would take Yarran if Mitchell wanted to leave !!!

[Matt80]

Of course you want to keep your best players, but the system works in a way that effectively prevents you from stockpiling talent. The challenge for the list management team is to plan ahead so that we can get the best value for players that want to leave, either for more money or playing opportunity.

One example is how Hawthorn lost both Kennedy and McGlynn in 2009 and didn't get good value for them, although they did well with the draft picks they got in the trade. Even without those 2 Hawthorn still consistently had one of the best midfields going around. So Hawthorn were right that they could spare them, but didn't get maximum value in the trades.

It looks as though we are heading for a similar situation as Hawthorn in 2009 with not being able to afford spots to all your good players. So the question is: What do you do? I think crunch time will come next year for us when some hard decisions will need to be made. But just suppose Carlton are willing to offer Mitchell $3 mil. over 5 years and he's keen of taking the offer and Carlton will give us their 1st rounder, say pick 6. Would this be tempting?

It's a deal. The Swans also save a couple of hundred thousand dollars that we have had to pay Mitchell above the odds to keep GWS away.

[Mr Magoo]

Being that Melbourne offered up Pick 2 for Dom Tyson in a year when the draft was pretty highly rated at the top end , I reckon we could actually demand a fair bit for someone like Mitchell. I think everyone here is selling his value a bit short. Kennedy and McGlynn werent actually that highly rated when let go by Hawthorn whereas I think he Swans have a very high opinion of Mitchell. He is not currently in the 22 because of injury not through lack of opportunity.

To be honest Pick 6 for Mitchell isnt really a very good deal unless you had to do it to lighten the salary cap load and Mitchell wanted out anyway. To me its a bit like offerring GWS pick 2 for Tom Boyd.

[Ludwig]

Melbourne also gave up pick 9 for pick 20 in the Tyson trade, so maybe that comes out to around pick 10 net.

I rate both Mitchell and Bird very highly, but I see them as vying for 1 spot in the midfield. Barring injuries, I don't think both will play in the same side either this year or next and eventually one of them will be traded.

[Nico]

Higgins and Yarran and let Mitchell go!!! You would have to daft to want that. Higgins is as soft as it gets and slow to boot and Yarran lacks consistency and is as loose as granny's teeth. Why would you fit those 2 into our team when we have plenty of young talent coming through. You just drag the bar down a couple of notches with those 2. I thought we were a hard at it team. Imagine the list manager at the moment listening to and reading the Mitchell chat. Would be ROFLHAO.

Do we not read the posts of the 2's observers who say Mitchell has had a wretched run with injuries. Rattle on as much as you like but my bet is Mitch stays.

[RogueSwan]

Higgins and Yarran and let Mitchell go!!! You would have to daft to want that. Higgins is as soft as it gets and slow to boot and Yarran lacks consistency and is as loose as granny's teeth. ..

I haven't seen much of either but Yarran's name is being thrown around as All Australian this year and he is only 23yrs old. He, from my limited perspective, would be a good replacement for Shaw. Buuuuutt, like you say, we have talent in the magoo's that needs to be given a chance. Rampe, Biggs and Jones all appear to long term half backs options, working with Smooch, Reg, AJ and Reidy(?).

[Auntie.Gerald]

It is a stack of midfielders we will have in 2015 (of high quality)
you suspect that we wont be able to fit all of them into the cap nor the midfield and probably only one retiring in Pebbles

Age next year:

ROK - 33 (retiring)
Macca - 30
McGlynn -30
Jack - 28
Kennedy - 27
Bird - 26
Jetta - 26
Hannes - 24
Parker - 23
Mitchell - 22
Lloyd - 22
Harry - 20
BJ - 21
Robinson - 21
Hewett - 20
Perris - 20
Jones - 20
Heeney? - 19
Hiscox? - 19

2016
Mills?
Dunkley?

[Flying South]

We might have Buddy and Tippet but we will probably not have Goodes next year. As I said Tippet is iffy and if we loose him who takes his place? Reid has shown a lot of potential but is yet to dominate his position in any game. If we picked up a good forward in the draft this year, it would be two years before you could expect them to be a power. Yes it is a gamble but it is about planning for the future and we can afford to give up something in an area were we are strong to boost a potential weakness.

Don't forget Nank. I see him as our long term replacement for Tippett. Power forward who provides backup in the ruck. Membrey will replace Goodes and I predict naismith will become 'Mummy 2'. I don't believe we need to look at drafting a tall forward for another year or two.