List changes and trade bait

[mcs]

We don't have an unending cap space to sign every player under the sun on huge $$$$, even if we flog off all the players under the sun or push em out the door. Its going to be very tight just managing to keep what we have, let alone chasing every player potentially available under the sun.

They are talking about $650K + a season for Ryder, and Carlisle would be even more. Chasing either would leave us with 3 players potentially taking up around 20% of the cap. Hardly a healthy position to be in, especially as the Buddy burden gets bigger as the seasons go on. We also need some money to actually maintain the troops we have, and those developing who will get better contracts in the future, and those yet to come that you've already christened as 'superstars' as well.

We are going to be in a very limited ability to enter into bidding wars over players I'd expect. We've shown how good we are at stitching blokes up before they truly hit the 'open market', so I can't see why we'd change tact at this stage.

That's not to say that we would not be interested in Ryder or Carlisle - but I think reality, despite your trading scenarios, would suggest our focus for this year will be on keeping everyone we can and creating space where needed to upgrade other contracts for current players.

[0918330512]

Mark Robinson has posted an article stating that Jake Carlisle is looking into the Pat Ryder clause. Apparently five clubs have made Carlisle huge offers. Essendon will apparently fight any player looking to break a contract via the welfare clause. I just wonder how a player could return to a club having fought them in a grievance process.

I wonder if the Swans are in the mix for Carlisle?

I think that Mitchell (trade), Malceski (free agency), Grundy (trade) and Goodes (retired) would have to leave to create the Carlisle salary space.

I'm not sure if the Red and White community is ready emotionally part with the four above players but Carlisle could hold down a key defensive post with Sam Reid for the next 8-10 years. They are also both competent swingman and would leave Longmire with great flexibility.

Every time a new player becomes potentially available, a new bunch of players are proposed as trade bait to get them. Hope Crouchie can win this weekend becaause after Matt's finished trading players 4:1 to make space in our cap for each new recruitment prospect, we'll have no one left to field a side in the NEAFL next year

[Matt80]

We don't have an unending cap space to sign every player under the sun on huge $$$$, even if we flog off all the players under the sun or push em out the door. Its going to be very tight just managing to keep what we have, let alone chasing every player potentially available under the sun.

They are talking about $650K + a season for Ryder, and Carlisle would be even more. Chasing either would leave us with 3 players potentially taking up around 20% of the cap. Hardly a healthy position to be in, especially as the Buddy burden gets bigger as the seasons go on. We also need some money to actually maintain the troops we have, and those developing who will get better contracts in the future, and those yet to come that you've already christened as 'superstars' as well.

We are going to be in a very limited ability to enter into bidding wars over players I'd expect. We've shown how good we are at stitching blokes up before they truly hit the 'open market', so I can't see why we'd change tact at this stage.

That's not to say that we would not be interested in Ryder or Carlisle - but I think reality, despite your trading scenarios, would suggest our focus for this year will be on keeping everyone we can and creating space where needed to upgrade other contracts for current players.

After getting Tippett and Buddy after a premiership season I believe the Swans can do anything they want. The Swans are like the child with the most toys and more toys will come.

I believe good players at the Swans and good players outside the Swans will play for the Swans for 100-160 less than the open market.

We are a power club. We take what we want!

[goswannies]

I believe good players at the Swans and good players outside the Swans will play for the Swans for 100-160 less than the open market.

$160K less in Australia's most expensive capital city after already losing their CoLA?

[Untamed Snark]

Mark Robinson has posted an article stating that Jake Carlisle is looking into the Pat Ryder clause. Apparently five clubs have made Carlisle huge offers. Essendon will apparently fight any player looking to break a contract via the welfare clause. I just wonder how a player could return to a club having fought them in a grievance process.

I wonder if the Swans are in the mix for Carlisle?

I think that Mitchell (trade), Malceski (free agency), Grundy (trade) and Goodes (retired) would have to leave to create the Carlisle salary space.

I'm not sure if the Red and White community is ready emotionally part with the four above players but Carlisle could hold down a key defensive post with Sam Reid for the next 8-10 years. They are also both competent swingman and would leave Longmire with great flexibility.

You're trading Reg now?
Why on earth would you tamper with the defence? Teddy and Shaw are 30 + but Ted in particular can go another season or two, Mal may be leaving us, meaning Reg & Rampe are left to solidify the new defence line in a year or two
Sammy may well become a brilliant defender but not on his own, you can't learn without appropriate teachers

It has nothing to do with emotion, on a practical side why decimate your strongest position to fit in a player we can likely cover from our drafting and trades or is already covered by the players you just traded?

[Matt80]

You're trading Reg now?
Why on earth would you tamper with the defence? Teddy and Shaw are 30 + but Ted in particular can go another season or two, Mal may be leaving us, meaning Reg & Rampe are left to solidify the new defence line in a year or two
Sammy may well become a brilliant defender but not on his own, you can't learn without appropriate teachers

It has nothing to do with emotion, on a practical side why decimate your strongest position to fit in a player we can likely cover from our drafting and trades or is already covered by the players you just traded?

Ted is 32 and has 2015 to go and has no trade value. He also inspires his younger brother. He could begin with Carlisle and then pass to Reid.

Grundy at 28 offers some value at the trade table. You could not have Grundy, Ted and Carlisle at the same club. One of them would be playing in the NEAFL.

Imagine this starting back line in 2016

B Smith Carlisle Johnson
HB Rohan Reid Rampe

Spare defender/midfield rotation Zak Jones

That defence has height, speed, athletic ability, run out of defence and 3rd man up dominance. Imagine the tackles of Rampe, Rohan, Jones, Reid and Smith.

What Red and White person does not want this defence?

[mcs]

Ted is 32 and has 2015 to go and has no trade value. He also inspires his younger brother. He could begin with Carlisle and then pass to Reid.

Grundy at 28 offers some value at the trade table. You could not have Grundy, Ted and Carlisle at the same club. One of them would be playing in the NEAFL.

Imagine this starting back line in 2016

B Smith Carlisle Johnson
HB Rohan Reid Rampe

Spare defender/midfield rotation Zak Jones

That defence has height, speed, athletic ability, run out of defence and 3rd man up dominance. Imagine the tackles of Rampe, Rohan, Jones, Reid and Smith.

What Red and White person does not want this defence?

They really need to come out with an 'AFL List Manager' (In the vogue of Football Manager) to keep you happy Matt80 - then you can create your ultimate football team, without needing to dish your fantasies constantly out on the folk of RWO

I can't see why you would tinker with defence at this stage. I know we need a replacement to Ted, but he has a couple more seasons in him, and that is plenty of time for Mach II Richards to get to a level where he is ready to compete at the top level. I just don't see what help tying huge $$$ in Carlisle would be, when there are far more pressing areas where we are going to need every single $ to keep all our star players on board (such as midfield).

- - - Updated - - -

After getting Tippett and Buddy after a premiership season I believe the Swans can do anything they want. The Swans are like the child with the most toys and more toys will come.

I believe good players at the Swans and good players outside the Swans will play for the Swans for 100-160 less than the open market.

We are a power club. We take what we want!

This is naive at best, completely arrogant at worst. We can't do anything we want - there is a salary cap in place and for good reason.

if you can't see that we are going to have be very clever in our recruiting for the next several years, then your not looking very hard. Being clever is not going to be trying to buy every single 'fad' player like you seem to think it is. It will be about keeping the high quality cattle we have, using the bonuses we get from the Academy to top up our depth, and looking for recycled players (like Derricx and Laidler) who we know can do a job for the team. Its not going to be chasing after every big name star there is out there every season. That is not the Swans way in general - in general we've only really chased the big stars when the very biggest names come on the market, and they fill a clear void in our team (As Tippett and Franklin have done, and as BBB and Plugger did before).

One of the best things, and things I love most about our club, has been our ability to be a great side, based as much upon smart recruiting, and getting the very best out of 'recycled/unwanted/rookie list' style players, to make a team so much greater than its parts. I'd be sad if we become this arrogant, 'Chelsea' style team that simply tries to buy our way to success by always needed the 'best and brightest' of what is available on the market.

I'm all for big name signings like Buddy - but in moderation and as required. Whilst Carlisle would be nice, I don't think he is needed to be honest, and would chew up plenty of $$$ as well.

[mcs]

Every time a new player becomes potentially available, a new bunch of players are proposed as trade bait to get them. Hope Crouchie can win this weekend becaause after Matt's finished trading players 4:1 to make space in our cap for each new recruitment prospect, we'll have no one left to field a side in the NEAFL next year

Don't worry - Heeney and mills have already been pencilled in for 4 brownlows each according to the hype created by Matt, so they can carry the NEAFL team by themselves along with a bunch of topups

[Matt80]

They really need to come out with an 'AFL List Manager' (In the vogue of Football Manager) to keep you happy Matt80 - then you can create your ultimate football team, without needing to dish your fantasies constantly out on the folk of RWO

I can't see why you would tinker with defence at this stage. I know we need a replacement to Ted, but he has a couple more seasons in him, and that is plenty of time for Mach II Richards to get to a level where he is ready to compete at the top level. I just don't see what help tying huge $$$ in Carlisle would be, when there are far more pressing areas where we are going to need every single $ to keep all our star players on board (such as midfield).

- - - Updated - - -



This is naive at best, completely arrogant at worst. We can't do anything we want - there is a salary cap in place and for good reason.

if you can't see that we are going to have be very clever in our recruiting for the next several years, then your not looking very hard. Being clever is not going to be trying to buy every single 'fad' player like you seem to think it is. It will be about keeping the high quality cattle we have, using the bonuses we get from the Academy to top up our depth, and looking for recycled players (like Derricx and Laidler) who we know can do a job for the team. Its not going to be chasing after every big name star there is out there every season. That is not the Swans way in general - in general we've only really chased the big stars when the very biggest names come on the market, and they fill a clear void in our team (As Tippett and Franklin have done).

We can only have one of Ryder and Carlisle. Ryder is an immediate impact in the ruck which could be vital in the 2015 - 2017 charge for glory. Carlisle could stabilise out defence for the next 8-10 seasons.

Players are excited about working at the SCG. Tippett was heading to Qld until Longmire and Ireland popped in for chat after the Grand Final. You could have excused the whole club for being drunk, but they were working and securing the future. Buddy was knocking on Longmires door wanting to come.

A Ryder or a Carlisle would love it here. You get to work with a no-nonsense and strategically brilliant coach like Longmire. You leave the powerful Godfather figures like Little, Hird and Evans behind. You have a shot at being a premiership player and you know that when the going gets tough that Buddy will break the game open. You can have a normal life in Sydney without always being every persons centre of attention. You can have great summers in Bondi and on the Harbour.

Players will play for less money for that.

As for the midfield, I think you know my plans for the regeneration of that winning unit.

[Matt80]

MCS, we really both need do some work. Let's continue this after business hours!

[Jewels]

Ted is 32 and has 2015 to go and has no trade value. He also inspires his younger brother. He could begin with Carlisle and then pass to Reid.

Grundy at 28 offers some value at the trade table. You could not have Grundy, Ted and Carlisle at the same club. One of them would be playing in the NEAFL.

Imagine this starting back line in 2016

B Smith Carlisle Johnson
HB Rohan Reid Rampe

Spare defender/midfield rotation Zak Jones

That defence has height, speed, athletic ability, run out of defence and 3rd man up dominance. Imagine the tackles of Rampe, Rohan, Jones, Reid and Smith.

What Red and White person does not want this defence?

Me!

Ill be so glad to see the trade period over with this year so we get a little break from all your hair brained trade scenarios!

[Jimitron5000]

Say what you like about Matt80's thoughts on trades and list management but the club has got to where it is with some left field thinking that shocked both us fans and the general AFL community.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a midfielder was traded this year for a high draft pick to get hold of one of these gun talls the draft experts talk about. As to which one well who knows.
What I do think is we would be incredibly reluctant to lose both Malceski (to someone else) and Shaw (to pasture) at the one time. I'm convinced one will be here next season. Our back 6 has been a cornerstone of our success and we want continuity there.

[Auntie.Gerald]

LRT, Shaw, Goodes, ROK retire at the end of 2014 or Shaw and Goodes play on for peanuts.......

i still think only Mal will be the casualty if he wants to go as we probably will be able to afford him depending on length of contract he desires..........i actually see more upside in keeping Mitchell for the future given our depth in the backs and especially given Macca is doing more and more play making off the HBF

BUT re our backs

Macca 50% of the game is in the backs of late and does a stirling job

Rohan is being groomed nicely for the back six rotation and being able to play the attacking role..........Imagine where gary will be after the pre season fully fit and getting used to the backs at another level

Zak Jones is a gun and way ahead of where Mal was at the same age in my opinion

Rampe is a lock along with Smith

Laidler is great cover

AJ is hopefully coming back fingers crossed

Ted and Reg and Reidy when needed for matchups cover our talls

[Ludwig]

Say what you like about Matt80's thoughts on trades and list management but the club has got to where it is with some left field thinking that shocked both us fans and the general AFL community.
Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if a midfielder was traded this year for a high draft pick to get hold of one of these gun talls the draft experts talk about. As to which one well who knows.
What I do think is we would be incredibly reluctant to lose both Malceski (to someone else) and Shaw (to pasture) at the one time. I'm convinced one will be here next season. Our back 6 has been a cornerstone of our success and we want continuity there.

Matt80 may toss around every speculative trade imaginable, but I have had the same thoughts as Jimitron.

At some point something has got to give with the number of quality midfielders coming through the system. The question is whether the best strategy is to jump the gun and try to get into this year's draft and bag one of a number of high quality tall prospects or stand pat this year and wait until next to see how things unfold. We would still have high value midfielders to trade for a KPP if need be. However, AJ, Walsh and Xav may all be ready to play quality AFL level footy.

One of the problems of chasing Ryder or Carlisle is that they would put even more pressure on an already cramped salary cap. I think we need to pause and give ourselves some breathing room to operate in the future.

It's hard for us fans to properly evaluate the situation because we are not privy to contract and salary cap details. If we had that information we would have a better idea of how to proceed at the trade table.

[Matimbo]

LRT, Shaw, Goodes, ROK retire at the end of 2014 or Shaw and Goodes play on for peanuts.......

i still think only Mal will be the casualty if he wants to go as we probably will be able to afford him depending on length of contract he desires..........i actually see more upside in keeping Mitchell for the future given our depth in the backs and especially given Macca is doing more and more play making off the HBF

BUT re our backs

Macca 50% of the game is in the backs of late and does a stirling job

Rohan is being groomed nicely for the back six rotation and being able to play the attacking role..........Imagine where gary will be after the pre season fully fit and getting used to the backs at another level

Zak Jones is a gun and way ahead of where Mal was at the same age in my opinion

Rampe is a lock along with Smith

Laidler is great cover

AJ is hopefully coming back fingers crossed

Ted and Reg and Reidy when needed for matchups cover our talls

+1

- So much talk in this thread seems to ignore AJ. I expect him to return and get back to his full potential. Others have done so after multiple knee re-co's (e.g. Mal). Given Ted has at least another season to go and AJ promises to grow into a KPP back, I would not spend precious salary cap at the end of this season chasing Carlisle at top dollar.
- Rohan in the backline ... most of the focus in this thread seems to be on him being the rebound run if Mal goes. Not denying this, but what I notice with him is how valuable his closing speed is in defence. Even last Sat where he is remembered for the clangers, I recall him flying in from a distance to get a vital spoil either on the HBB line or on the wing a number of times when Freo threatened to go deep inside 50.