Pre-season News

[Auntie.Gerald]

Liz my original point was very specific about our young players being eased in.............I think we have learnt lessons with over training and the strain this can put on our young kids and the serious injuries that can come from hi intensity training week after week

The kids that i know at the GWS academy are educated massively in this area and they are moved to off leg training quite regularly

Mal and Shaw are a different issue altogether to my comment re young players and the Swans training programmes and monitoring..........plse see below

Where as AJ is a good example of someone who went very hard in training and game day and at some point over training and training flat stick day in day will increase pressure and strain on any players ligaments............correct it is difficult to prove the ACL tear came from over training and or minimal off legs work but I know it didnt happen when he flicked the channel on the TV


"it is such a great reminder how smart the Swans are in easing in the draftees etc into training

we are so careful with the young guys to get them off legs when needed with the end in mind

Heeney has had an ongoing tendonitis issue and this appears to be managed well so far"

[goswannies]

not many golfers suffer ACL injuries........and that is because they do not suffer the same rigours of training and game day

Hmmm, the forces exerted on a golfer aren't really comparable. Rarely are there any fixed foot pivoting. Hyper extension is almost non-existent.

the opposite is true for AFL players and basket ballers etc

True

Liz and GS....... i disagree...........i do believe that most physio and training programmes would be fully aware of over straining and over training and hence learning from the fella's that have done their ACL in the past.

Physios are well aware of the forces (and activities that produce these forces) and that over use fatigue can compromise the active (muscular) stability, increasing the reliance (and thus forces imposed upon) the passive ligamentous restraints. I guess my point was that there is an innate unpredictability about football that cannot be controlled or trained for. eg: hyperextension when landing from a high mark (that'd be Richo's); a tackle applied to the knees with the foot fixed (the player with the ball can't control how someone tackles them).

It is be far one of the worst ligament injuries and yes 80% of ACL tears occur without contact......... hence even a greater sign that they occur under stress

Yes, high physical force stress ie a hyper extension or twisting motion at the knee with the foot fixed and the majority of the players body weight +/- another person's mass exacerbating the force at the knee

and or post a lot of stress ie over training

There is certainly a component of this, relating to neuromuscular fatigue.

my original point was very specific about our young players being eased in.............I think we have learnt lessons with over training and the strain this can put on our young kids and the serious injuries that can come from hi intensity training week after week

Very true. Many injuries (particularly soft tissue - and this typically refers to muscle strains & contusions) sustained by physically immature bodies will relate to overtraining & high workloads. I'm not necessarily convinced ACLs are one if them.
It takes about 1700 newtons of force to tear an ACL (not even allowing for the additional protection afforded by hamstring contraction, which resists anterior tibial translation). Every day activities generally exert less than 500 newtons of force. I guess my point it that it takes an awful lot of force to tear the ACL ... it's designed (or evolved, depending on your point if view) to take a lot of stress. The ACL, however, doesn't like really high stresses. You could train for 10 hours straight, but it only takes one poor landing from a speckle or a poorly timed tackle at any time to end a season. Not much can stop the ACL rupturing under the circumstances in which it's typically damaged.

I agree you can not put players in cotton wool but any one who has played sport and trained a few days a week generally is carrying a slight niggle into training and into game day I rarely can think of a time in competitive sport that I didnt have a niggle ie a groin strain, a strain of the lateral ankle ligaments, a slight twinge of the hammy

I do believe that training programmes and body awareness and off legs training is becoming smarter and smarter in trying to prevent serious injuries such as ACL tears where ever possible hence the extreme increase and development of "off legs training" we are witnessing in almost every second interview with players these days.............I know first hand when you try to nurse one injury it so often leads to over compensation in other areas of the body which can then suffer tears or strains

Quite insightful & valid points.

[goswannies]

it is such a great reminder how smart the Swans are in easing in the draftees etc into training. Heeney has had an ongoing tendonitis issue and this appears to be managed well so far

Tendinitis is in inflammatory condition that can be managed with workload regulation & pharmaceutically. Prediction of & preventing ACL injuries is a little less certain.

[Meg]

Good article about Tom Mitchell.
No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

[Doctor]

It says he's fully fit, therefore it's definitely a good article!

[Flying South]

It says he's fully fit, therefore it's definitely a good article!

Didn't someone post that he was seen limping after one of the intra club games? Was that a mistake, just a knock or being hidden by swans?

[707]

But is Mitchell actually any good?

With little real fitness, he played round 22 in the seniors - 29 possessions, 13 contested, 6 clearances, 13 tackles.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do when really fit :-)

[magic.merkin]

But is Mitchell actually any good?

With little real fitness, he played round 22 in the seniors - 29 possessions, 13 contested, 6 clearances, 13 tackles.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do when really fit :-)

Don't forget 64 in the reserves when he was finding fitness. Imagine if he gets dropped for some slight disciplinary reasons but is seniors fit. 100 touch Game?
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Sorry if my shop skills are too good for your eyes.....

[wolftone57]

ACL's are normally a result of the leg coming down at the wrong angle or too heavily. If you watch most of the incidents in which players get these injuries you will see there is a common thread, either the angle or the force with which the leg comes in contact with the ground. I am not saying the knee comes in contact with the ground at all the leg does though. In most cases of this injury the players impact the ground on foot. Sometimes the impact can seem innocuous but it is the angle that is important. I saw Tony Hall do his ACL while playing for Glenelg and it didn't seem much but if you were to see the vision you would notice the impact at a slight angle. The second time he did it he impacted at an angle again and it was very obvious.

ACL injuries are caused by stretching and tearing and generally happen in a split second the tendons are stretched too far either way. I did my PCL, not as bad can I only pulled it not busted it and it was agony and I couldn't walk for days. Leg swelled up like a balloon. There is an old saying in footy 'best to land in a roll than on your feet after a high leap'. By this they are talking about getting injured by jarring of the knees. In today's footy we like our players to keep their feet, I wonder if that is a problem sometimes.

[wolftone57]

But is Mitchell actually any good?

With little real fitness, he played round 22 in the seniors - 29 possessions, 13 contested, 6 clearances, 13 tackles.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do when really fit :-)

He played quite a few games in 2013 and was very good. He was looking soooooo dangerous in the Carlton final and then he got injured. Bloody Carlton you can trust them to ruin our party, Tip & Tommy both injured that game. I saw him play on a limited program last year in the Twos. He is a bloody good player and a SUPER STAR at NEAFL level, 64 possessions says a lot on that build up.

[Auntie.Gerald]

i rate Mitchell massively

he is as good as any inside player at the same age i have seen..........2013 was superb inside work for an 18/ 19 yr old

he is a born extractor of the football ............ he is like a fox terrier down a rabbit hole

So the question for me is how he fits in with the rotation of JPK and Parker purely inside and do we see JPK push forward more like we saw in 2012, 2013 looking for those marks upfront in mis matches.........

Parker and JPK have that dangerous ability to push forward like GA jnr and nab clutch goals when needed

[goswannies]

ACL's are normally a result of the leg coming down at the wrong angle or too heavily. If you watch most of the incidents in which players get these injuries you will see there is a common thread, either the angle or the force with which the leg comes in contact with the ground. I am not saying the knee comes in contact with the ground at all the leg does though. In most cases of this injury the players impact the ground on foot. Sometimes the impact can seem innocuous but it is the angle that is important. I saw Tony Hall do his ACL while playing for Glenelg and it didn't seem much but if you were to see the vision you would notice the impact at a slight angle. The second time he did it he impacted at an angle again and it was very obvious.

ACL injuries are caused by stretching and tearing and generally happen in a split second the tendons are stretched too far either way. I did my PCL, not as bad can I only pulled it not busted it and it was agony and I couldn't walk for days. Leg swelled up like a balloon. There is an old saying in footy 'best to land in a roll than on your feet after a high leap'. By this they are talking about getting injured by jarring of the knees. In today's footy we like our players to keep their feet, I wonder if that is a problem sometimes.

Mechanism for all ACL injuries anterior tibial translation relative to the femur (with or without rotation).
More simply put, to injure the ACL, the shin bone moves forward relative to the thigh bone (this is the movement that the ACL resists). If the force applied at the knee joint in this plain is greater than the force than the ACL can resist (about 1700N) ... "pop"

The foot pretty much has to be fixed/grounded or the force being applied to the knee would just bend the knee, exerting minimal force to the ACL.

Interestingly, sometimes a complete ACL tear with no other concomitant injuries (eg menisci/collateral ligaments) can be less painful, as the ruptured ACL destroys the pain fibres that would normally detect pain. Immediate ice, compression & elevation will also reduce the pain & swelling. Correctly managed immediately, an ACL complete rupture can almost look & feel ok pretty quickly however the knee is grossly unstable, prone to further damage & giving way

[JPK12]

If you dont keep an eye on the kid during the game he goes from 7 touches to 25 in no time such is his ball magnet abilities. I cant wait until he takes some of the workload of JPK.

[Doctor]

A fully fit and confident Mitchell will be huge for us this year. The coaching staff and the players have all said repeatedly that he's in our best XXII when match fit and I'm sure we'll see the proof of that this year come April 2.

[Ludwig]

There's something fishy about the Petracca injury. If you look at the AFL Footy Feed video you will see Petracca at training after the ACL incident limping with his right knee bandaged. Then when he is interviewed today, on crutches,he has his left knee bandaged.

Or maybe it's just some more of that artsy video that's going around.


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I agree that Tom Mitchell will be an absolute gun if he can stay fit. He could be another Diesel Williams with that handball skill he's got.

The quality of midfielders that we've picked up since the 2008 draft is extraordinary. Starting with 2008 we picked up Hanners in the draft, then Jetta in the draft and JPK and McGlynn in trades, then Parker, then Mitchell and Cunningham, then Lloyd and BJ and Dan Robinson, then Hewett and Jones and Heeney last draft. That's 13 quality midfielders in 7 years. Not everyone's a star yet, but all are AFL quality players.