2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

[Dosser]

FWIW, in another land and time far, far away I played for Baulkham Hills as a junior and Pennant Hills in U19 and seniors. I used to go ok and I remember signing a form around 1983(?) which registered me to be able to be taken as a zone selection. The problem was, I had no idea of the process or who I had to talk to or what was my next step. I ended giving football away about a year later because my work took over, but if there was a defined pathway and strategy for me I would have loved to have continued. Contrast that with a classmate of mine who played league with the Eels and who was deliberately channeled all the way through his late junior and colt years to finally make it to first grade. I see that as one of the main issues here (probably because it is close to my heart) although raising the standard of the SFL would be a great thing as well.
I am well aware that a lot has changed since the early 80s, but I still assume that if there is no academy then there will be a less obvious pathway and many talented kids who dont have access to the right contacts will end up leaving the game due to inertia. The "uncovering" of a star at the academy is not really that, it is actually keeping them in the game long enough to allow their talents to mature - that is what I believe is the strength of northern academies.

[Mug Punter]

FWIW, in another land and time far, far away I played for Baulkham Hills as a junior and Pennant Hills in U19 and seniors. I used to go ok and I remember signing a form around 1983(?) which registered me to be able to be taken as a zone selection. The problem was, I had no idea of the process or who I had to talk to or what was my next step. I ended giving football away about a year later because my work took over, but if there was a defined pathway and strategy for me I would have loved to have continued. Contrast that with a classmate of mine who played league with the Eels and who was deliberately channeled all the way through his late junior and colt years to finally make it to first grade. I see that as one of the main issues here (probably because it is close to my heart) although raising the standard of the SFL would be a great thing as well.
I am well aware that a lot has changed since the early 80s, but I still assume that if there is no academy then there will be a less obvious pathway and many talented kids who dont have access to the right contacts will end up leaving the game due to inertia. The "uncovering" of a star at the academy is not really that, it is actually keeping them in the game long enough to allow their talents to mature - that is what I believe is the strength of northern academies.

Great post.

The NSW (non-Riverina) and QLD markets need the pathway desperately to make this work. It is a mechanism for keeping the local kids engaged and in the game.

They don't need that in Vic/SA/WA because their football culture is so strong.

Pretty commonsonse really. All I know is that academies where kids sign up knowing that their "reward" will be playing for Collingwood or Footscray will just not cut it

[Nico]

Great post.

The NSW (non-Riverina) and QLD markets need the pathway desperately to make this work. It is a mechanism for keeping the local kids engaged and in the game.

They don't need that in Vic/SA/WA because their football culture is so strong.

Pretty commonsonse really. All I know is that academies where kids sign up knowing that their "reward" will be playing for Collingwood or Footscray will just not cut it

Yes the culture is strong in Victoria but the pathway in Victoria was set up in the 80's and 90's. Starting at the bottom with Auskick. From Auskick they go to Junior clubs from ages 10 to 12. Those clubs start at Under 10's for some or Under 12's. Auskick finishes at Grade 6. The junior clubs go through to Under 17 in The Eastern Football League in the Eastern Suburbs. It was Under 16 but when the TAC Cup started taking on 19 year olds it was moved up a bracket. Boys are identified at Under 14 and at Under 15 there are representative games. Boys in regions like Bendigo, Ballarat and Gippsland use junior clubs in their regions as feeder comps. So there is a very clear path in Victoria. If it was a matter of the culture the development of junior players would be all over the shop. They do need structure otherwise kids would drop out at Under 16's. I was secretary at Croydon Juniors for 3 years and our biggest issue was retaining kids at Under 16.

The academies as I see are on track to have a strong path similar to the Southern states. It will just take time.

[Doctor]

I completely agree with the last couple of posts. The thing we have to make sure of, at the same time, is that footy in Sydney doesn't become a pathway purely for those identified players. It needs to remain a game for those who just want to play, which is why the divisional system works, in theory. Division 1 teams can go at it at a good level while Division 3 is for those who want to have a game. Both are equally important. In practice, however, there are parents who don't want to drive their kids all over Sydney for a game when they could be playing soccer 10 minutes from home every weekend. If local clubs were big enough to have teams in more than one division, that would solve the second problem at least. The current reality is that they don't though.

[Mug Punter]

I completely agree with the last couple of posts. The thing we have to make sure of, at the same time, is that footy in Sydney doesn't become a pathway purely for those identified players. It needs to remain a game for those who just want to play, which is why the divisional system works, in theory. Division 1 teams can go at it at a good level while Division 3 is for those who want to have a game. Both are equally important. In practice, however, there are parents who don't want to drive their kids all over Sydney for a game when they could be playing soccer 10 minutes from home every weekend. If local clubs were big enough to have teams in more than one division, that would solve the second problem at least. The current reality is that they don't though.

Agree with this and it's probably not for this forum but for the NSWAFL one where this is discussed ad nauseum..

However.....I think the academy system will help the local comp as a by product because the vast majority of academy kids will not be drafted. In theory there should be scores of professionally coached 18 year olds coming through the SFL ranks every year so you would hope the comp would improve. So, whilst the growing of the game locally isn't the reason for the academies in itself it is definitely a very positive side effect

However, the general consensus is that the local comp has barely moved in improvement since the Swans moved to Sydney despite them trying to engage with the community with no VFL/AFL funding. Why that is the case probably has several factors at play and I suspect other sports like rugby are facing similar challenges

Growing the game locally at a senior level with a strong multi divisional structure with two grades per club and promotion and relegation (the VAFA template is I think the most appropriate one for Sydney football) remains an issue that no one has truly got an answer to in over 30 years....

[Auntie.Gerald]

The top comp in sydney to me looks better then 15yrs ago

The level of understanding of how to play football has improved dramatically in the under 19s also compared to 15yrs ago

15yrs ago the under 19s was a joke ie generally a lot of ex league, union and soccer players

Now it is scattered with academy plAyers and kids that have played a lot of afl at unior level

The top Snr teams though still look better primarily in the players outside the top 10 ie 15yrs ago each of the top Snr teams still had a good mix of vfl, sanfl and wafl players over playing in sydney ie guys who had re located to sydney for work and this is still the case but the quality after the top 10 players in each Snr club dropped away 15yrs ago

I would argue the depth and skill now in a Snr sydney team in div 1 and prems is much higher from what I have seen

The academies and Auskick play a very strong in this quality improving for years to come

[Conor_Dillon]

Josh Dunkley is back for Vic Country this weekend, named in the centre.

[Mug Punter]

I've been thinking about the academy system of late....

If we acknowledge that the only reason for it's existence is to generate enough "new" players (i.e. players that would not have been of AFL standard without the academies due to a variety of reasons - e.g playing other sports or not getting goood enough coaching) then to generate an extra 80 players (two lists) and based on an average AFL career of draftees of four years (generous) then the Academy system needs to produce an additional 20 AFL players per year...

And we acknowledge that for the academies to work properly there needs to be a formal pathway in place until the volume of players creates a natural pathway that exists in SA/WA (i.e. there will be enough choice of NSW kids that the Swans will always have the choice of a local product regardless of their draft picks)

That's new players, not total...

So, if we assume that under a "do nothing" approach QLD and NSW currently produce on average 10 draftees then the combined academy systems need to produce 30 AFL standard players a year for AFL not to drop in standard (and the associated commercial issues that creates)

Now, GWS will probably not produce many additional players from their academy (maybe a couple due to better coaching) as they are effectively a recruitment zone. And part of me hates that but part of me says that is fair in the short term as they will have no F/S for close to 30 years.

So, the NSW and QLD academies will need to produce about 7-8 draftees each to make this thing work.

To me that's a frighteningly large number year on year number from AFL programmes that the AFL contibutes zero funding to.

Maybe the Swans Academy may get these nunbers but can anyone see the Gold Coast academy with its narrow footprint getting these numbers?

And what incentive do the QLD academies have to produce these extra players when their discount is only 20%

I guess my point here is that from a club level I think the new system may be a reasonably fair system from a "whole of game" perspective I have my doubts.

[Conor_Dillon]

Home sick from work today so had a chance to watch Dunkley play for Vic Country.

He was pretty quiet, laid a few nice tackles and was on the bottom of quite a few packs but doubt he would have had double figure positions.

Kevin Sheehan spoke a bit about him and mentioned that he'd played 1 game for Richmond's VFL at 60% game time and 1 for Gippsland at 70% game time (27 disposals) in his comeback from injury.

Was also full of praise for his contested footy ability, his positional flexibility and his leadership as well...Shifter painted a very nice picture.

[707]

That's what we want, a quiet game from Dunks!

[Conor_Dillon]

The commentators also repeatedly mentioned that there is plenty of key position talent in this years draft, (from memory they said could be 7 of the top 10) which all definitely bodes well for Mills sliding down the pecking order a bit, given teams like Carlton and St Kilda are desperate for decent tall players.

Of the midfielders, Mathieson and Parish (who were both all-aus as bottom age players in last years championships) played really well and will both push for top 10 selection according to the fox sports guys. This can probably be taken with a grain of salt though because every year there seems to be 30 odd kids who 'could be top 10'

[Mug Punter]

The commentators also repeatedly mentioned that there is plenty of key position talent in this years draft, (from memory they said could be 7 of the top 10) which all definitely bodes well for Mills sliding down the pecking order a bit, given teams like Carlton and St Kilda are desperate for decent tall players.

Of the midfielders, Mathieson and Parish (who were both all-aus as bottom age players in last years championships) played really well and will both push for top 10 selection according to the fox sports guys. This can probably be taken with a grain of salt though because every year there seems to be 30 odd kids who 'could be top 10'

I can't see him going past more than one Melbourne club, he certainly won't go past Roos....

Which given he has been rated as possibly the number 1 mid in the draft isn't that sinister really...

- - - Updated - - -

That's what we want, a quiet game from Dunks!

It would seem to be a fairly strong draft this year so I'd be very surprised to see Dunks go top 10 and I'd also think we'd be way of paying top 10 for him too.

Too risky for a phantom bid, if he is as good between the ears as we hear then I'd say Richmond could well buid at 12-16 (depending on their finish) which should be affordable for us.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Just some stats from Josh Dunkley for today's game.

#PlayerDKHGBCMUMTCLCFFFACPUPI50 AEFF
26J. Dunkley7430000102201430057%

A lot of tackling with 10. 2 Clearances, 2 Clangers at 57%
7 disposals, 4 kicks, 3 handpasses.[emoji15]

[707]

Just some stats from Josh Dunkley for today's game.

A lot of tackling with 10. 2 Clearances, 2 Clangers at 57%, 7 disposals, 4 kicks, 3 handpasses.[emoji15]

A spud, third round at best!

[aardvark]

I think people on here overrate Joshs ability. He is a good honest battler who if he didn't have a famous surname wouldn't get the attention he's getting. I'd be surprised if he went as high as predicted. Anyone who thinks he's our next superstar will be bitterly disappointed.