2015 academy discussion thread (with some FS thrown in for good measure)

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  • liz
    Veteran
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 16778

    I don't buy the conspiracy theories around the timing of the change. The difference between our first pick and the perceived draft value of Heeney was much greater than that between Moore and the Pies' first pick. So we would have been far more affected had they rushed in some new system for the 2014 season.

    I also think it makes sense that any adjustment affects both. No other club really gives a toss about Moore playing for the Pies or Heeney for the Swans. What they care about is that a club might have got a draft bargain. (I would also argue that clubs care far less about having sons of past players playing for their club than they do scoring a draft bargain, but that's another discussion.) What both schemes share is that they potentially deliver a player to a club for substantially below his draft value. The current scheme attempts to address this but it is a blunt tool, especially at the very pointy end of the draft.

    The importance of coming up with an alternative scheme depends largely on two things:

    a) how significant a distortion it is for clubs to access top 10 or top 20 talent when it's not really their turn (ie they aren't crap enough). If access to top picks - and a concentrated amount of top draft picks - was a major factor in success, Melbourne would be world-beaters. The Swans, who have had two top 10 picks in the last 13 drafts would be favourites for the wooden spoon. Clearly early access to the better talent each year is of some benefit but I think it's significantly valued by many. Including many clubs.

    b) whether the academies are going to produce players worthy of being picked at the very top of the draft on a regular basis. If they are doing their job, there is no reason why they shouldn't. After all, the populations of NSW and Queensland account for more than half the population of the country. Even if you allow for the fact that these states are competing for talent with the rugby codes in a way that SA, Vic and WA aren't, you would still expect two or three first round picks, at least, every year to emerge from NSW and Queensland if the development opportunities are roughly equivalent. Of course, they are coming from a long way back and it will take time. No-one yet has any idea whether Heeney and Mills (and Keys and Steele) are indicative of what talent does exist if only it were properly developed, or if they are short term statistical blips, skewing the picture of how much ground there is still to be made up.

    If these players are an indication of what we might see on a regular basis, it is probably better than the AFL does take over running of the academies sooner than later. So long as the programmes aren't diluted, I doubt many of us would have too much of an issue. The AFL could even keep the four separate academies and make use of the brands of the four clubs. They could even keep the clubs managing them, but pay all the costs and find some financial way to motivate the clubs to continue to manage them - ie not just bear the all the direct costs, but also pay the clubs for their know-how and time.

    Comment

    • YvonneH
      Senior Player
      • Sep 2011
      • 1141

      An article in the Age re: twilight grand final has Eddie Macquire saying 'with the AFL pouring millions & millions of dollars into NSW/QLD , and I'm not just talking about the academies', is this just another furfy line by him. I don't think the AFL pours millions into the Academies (isn't it about $250,000 per academy, with makes $1million).

      He manages to insert a dig at the academies in every conversation.

      Comment

      • mcs
        Travelling Swannie!!
        • Jul 2007
        • 8168

        Originally posted by YvonneH
        An article in the Age re: twilight grand final has Eddie Macquire saying 'with the AFL pouring millions & millions of dollars into NSW/QLD , and I'm not just talking about the academies', is this just another furfy line by him. I don't think the AFL pours millions into the Academies (isn't it about $250,000 per academy, with makes $1million).

        He manages to insert a dig at the academies in every conversation.
        The buffoon can't help himself - but as others have said, sadly he is effective with what he does.
        "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

        Comment

        • liz
          Veteran
          Site Admin
          • Jan 2003
          • 16778

          I think it is accurate that the AFL is pouring millions into NSW and Queensland. They have created two new clubs in places where there wasn't apparent overwhelming demand, and are investing to attract new supporters to the game. Whether it will work is another matter, but I don't think it can be questioned what they are doing.

          What this has to do with anything - ie what McGuire's point is - I am not sure.

          Comment

          • Meg
            Go Swannies!
            Site Admin
            • Aug 2011
            • 4828

            While I was browsing the Coffs Coast Advocate I read this nice article from November 2014 about the appointment of Tim Davis as Head Coach of the Northern NSW QBE Swans Academy.

            It gives a nice flavour of the broad-reaching scope of the Academy in non-AFL territory - something that AFL fans and administrators from the southern States don't seem to be able to comprehend.

            Swans Academy kicks a goal with new head coach appointment | Coffs Coast Advocate

            Comment

            • dimelb
              pr. dim-melb; m not f
              • Jun 2003
              • 6889

              Thanks for posting that Meg - exactly the sort of thing that grumblebums like Eddie ought to read. An encouraging light on what goes on outside the big smoke.
              He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

              Comment

              • The Big Cat
                On the veteran's list
                • Apr 2006
                • 2356

                Article quoting Roos today in The Age re father son picks. Makes the point that Vic clubs seem miffed at swans for getting Tippett and Franklin and being unable to do anything about it had led to an attack on the academy.
                Those who have the greatest power to hurt us are those we love.

                Comment

                • chalbilto
                  Senior Player
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 1139

                  The following is an extract from Andrew Pridham's AGM address. Eddie MCGuire should take note of the facts! The media should highlight to Eddie the financial investment made by the club and NOT the AFL.

                  The Club continued to invest in a fully resourced football department and a fully resourced Academy under head coach, Michael O?Loughlin.

                  The Academy had 60 coaches in the community with over 560 boys from under-11 to under-18 in various Academy programs in three metropolitan and six regional locations.

                  The Sydney Swans Academy costs over one million dollars per annum to run with the vast majority of this funded by the Club.

                  Whilst the cost is significant we believe it is an important investment into the development of players, coaches and fan engagement in NSW.

                  To-date only one player, Brandon Jack, has graduated from the Academy to a point of playing AFL football.

                  Regardless of its cost and limited on-field results thus far we believe the Academy system is one of, if not the most important game development initiatives in Australia.

                  The Academies will develop few AFL standard players relative to the number of boys who pass through the system.

                  However, along the way it develops players and coaches who bolster local clubs, and engrains in their family and friends a deep affection for the game, growing the fan and participation base for generations to come.

                  Needless to say it was very rewarding and encouraging to see our Academy investment of around five million dollars since 2010 result in three selections by the Sydney Swans at the 2014 Draft.

                  Three of our four picks were Academy boys (Isaac Heeney, Abaina Davis and Jack Hiscox) and we upgraded Daniel Robinson to the primary list. We also took Jordan Foote in the Rookie Draft.

                  I am confident that without the Academy none of these young men would be playing AFL at any level.

                  Our five million dollar investment is benefitting the entire competition with the national talent pool growing for all clubs. The competition should be buoyed by the increase of AFL talent coming out of NSW and Queensland academies and the impact that will have on the development of the code in these states.

                  Comment

                  • Ludwig
                    Veterans List
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9359

                    What a great piece on the AFL website about Isaac Heeney and the academy:

                    Heeney family 'blessed' by Swans' interest in young gun Isaac, despite draft debate - AFL.com.au

                    I'm convinced now that someone at the Swans follows RWO, because this article covers just about everything that so many of us have said about the academy.
                    • It takes a well deserved crack at Eddie.
                    • Makes Eddie look like he's badgering a poor kid and his family who just want to live normal lives. (Maybe there's cause to get and AVO on EM).
                    • Emphasizes how the academy, run by the Swans, was the reason for Isaac joining AFL, and how great they've been to work with.
                    • Good opening sentence: ISAAC Heeney's mother feels "blessed" her son was part of the Sydney Swans' controversial academy, and his dad says there is no way the gun midfielder would be playing AFL otherwise.
                    • Good contrast by using the word 'blessed' with Swans, and then the implication of the 'cursed' McGuire harassing a poor kid from Newcastle who just wants to play footy.
                    • It's a whole lot of fluff, but it's good fluff.
                    • Talks about how many AFL converts were achieved due to the academy program.
                    • Hits the hot buttons and all the main talking points.


                    I don't know if it helps, but so many of us wanted more PR to counter McGuire, and now we have some.

                    Comment

                    • dimelb
                      pr. dim-melb; m not f
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 6889

                      Nice piece. And top class ammunition.
                      He reminds him of the guys, close-set, slow, and never rattled, who were play-makers on the team. (John Updike, seeing Josh Kennedy in a crystal ball)

                      Comment

                      • jono2707
                        Goes up to 11
                        • Oct 2007
                        • 3326

                        Good stuff - nicely written. And they come across as such nice and reasonable people. Unlike Eddie.

                        We need more articles like this that explain clearly why the academies are important.

                        Comment

                        • Meg
                          Go Swannies!
                          Site Admin
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 4828

                          "SELF-interest will dominate club feedback on the AFL?s radical overhaul of the father-son and academy player bidding system. Clubs have until next week to give their views on the tabled changes, under which bidding would be moved to draft night and a points value assigned to every pick."

                          AFL clubs provide feedback on father-son, northern academy bidding system

                          Only one of these quoted comments refers to the (very dodgy) points system itself, and that is only to say it is complicated.

                          Comment

                          • Ludwig
                            Veterans List
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 9359

                            Originally posted by Meg

                            Only one of these quoted comments refers to the (very dodgy) points system itself, and that is only to say it is complicated.
                            But at least all the comments sound like they are coming from sane rational people.



                            Except the last one!

                            Comment

                            • Doctor
                              Bay 29
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 2757

                              I love that they left the last one in there. It just shows it up for how stupid a comment it is.
                              Today's a draft of your epitaph

                              Comment

                              • S.S. Bleeder
                                Senior Player
                                • Sep 2014
                                • 2165

                                GWS might find themselves in a similar position to us come draft time;
                                GWS Giants set to secure young Riverina rising star Jacob Hopper

                                Comment

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