Centre clearances - WTF?

[wolftone57]

As far as I am concerned this is one of our major problems. Not only centre clearances but clearances from stoppages as well. The problem with losing both is that our defence is under stress very quickly. Rebound goals are beautiful but we should not have to rely on them.

[sharp9]

We have been truly dreadful from the centre for YEARS. I can't watch any games live (in NZ) so i keep up to date with AFl app which shows the team stats so I look at them a lot during a game as I can't bear to listen to the radio commentary. Sit there reading the stats and swiping "update"

I am pretty sure that we have lost centre clearances in every match this year. Don't forget the 2012 GF was 21-4 to them! I would suspect that that was the most comprehensive centre square loss in the history of the game. And much as I love Pykey - is there another ruckman in the comp who taps it straight into the bread basket of the opposition more often. Sometimes they are 1 metre away and he is facing them and he still still palms it to them. I wouldn't have thought ruckwork was all the complicated once you get first hands to the ball.

BTW did anyone see the 360 disectioin of Melbourne's last 41 seconds??? The ruckman (Gawn???) actually won it for Melbourne and hit it in entirely the wrong direction...ie into space in the OPPOSITE direction to where all 3 of his midfielders had gone. Sheesh what a bozo.

[sharp9]

Update - actually we beat Port, Freo and Geelong and drew with Essendon and Melbourne...but still! Actually Freo our best....13-8

[ugg]

Update - actually we beat Port, Freo and Geelong and drew with Essendon and Melbourne...but still! Actually Freo our best....13-8

Best is 16-8 v Bulldogs

Strangely since Mitchell came into the team we've only won 1 of the centre clearance counts and that was by a solitary clearance 10-9 v Gold Coast.

[giant]

The centre clearance stats for Saturday were 16 to 3. One of our clearances was clean, one was scrappy and produced nothing and the third was when Tippett got the tap and almost gathered at half forward in the last quarter. North got moving at the start of the third quarter with 2 quick clearances for goals. I have heard coaches say that centre clearances are vital. The 2nd quarter in the GF Sam Mitchell killed us with his centre clearances that resulted in quick goals.

St Kilda win the game 41 seconds on the clock with a clean and quick centre clearance. Maverick Weller on SEN this morning said they rehearse that scenario.

Too right centre clearances are pivotal to fast movement forward. We need to get this right. We had 53 inside 50 to 45, so 16 0f Norths could be attributable to centre clearances. We take 50% of those off them means 61 to 35 inside 50, and we win by miles. Pretty basic to me where we can improve.

This is on the money for mine. Centre clearances may not always be critical but Saturday night was a great example of what happens when you let a team like North stay in touch and all of a sudden they turn centre square dominance into effective clearances - a couple of consecutive goals and they're right back in it. All becomes particularly important at the SCG for obvious reasons.

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Just watching the replay and concentrating on the centre clearances in particular, Pyke doesn't jump at many of them and the ones he does jump at it is halfhearted and more concerned with when Goldstein is jumping. Whether this was injury related (maybe this was why Nankervis went as a traveling emergency?) or a tactic I'm not sure but Goldstein was smart enough to recognise it and adjust his tapwork accordingly. Also cost us a few free kicks in the middle when Pyke was pinged for blocking.

Maybe but it doesn't explain GC and Carlton where Pyke dominated.

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My view is its JPK.
He has been an absolute gun inside the last few years. He was the one that got the first touch and the others did the rest.

This year he is not playing with that same unrelenting attitude. So we don't get first touch - and we are not getting the clearances.

This seems the most likely to me - JPK was averaging almost 9 clearances a game to round 6; since then he's been averaging below 5. Last 3 rounds, he's had 2, 3 and 1 centre clearance respectively. Time for others to step up.

[Legs Akimbo]

I just watched the first quarter of the nth game. I watched the centre clearances. Doesn't help that Pyke is pretty useless at tapping to advantage but what seems to happen a few times is the nth players block to open space and goldstein drops the ball into the space. A nth player drops into it and gets free. Also, it seems the Sydney players are defensively minded and not looking to get free but rather apply pressure . What I do note is that when the nth player gets it they just hoof it and hope for the best. So maybe it is deliberate strategy because swans see it as a random kick to half back which sets us up for a rebound and structured swans forward entry. Form of slingshot

[crackedactor]

Interesting theory..hmmm. yes the kick out of the centre is nearly always under pressure and our defense is looking for that short scrubby kick. Also I notice they are taking chances and playing brilliant football for just one quarter then they go down to lock down defensive mode. e.g. 2nd quarter against North, 2nd Quarter against gold coast, first quarter against hawthorn were all outstanding, the rest of the game/s they were ordinary. Maybe another tactic?

[Simo]

I tend to agree with the criticism at Pyke, he must be injured or he doesn't perform whe he isn't chasing a spot, he was desperate to show his worth when mummy was around, now he is top dog....not so much. The club should reward naithsmith with another go, this kid is big, hungry and has great skills. In a better team, he may not win the hit outs etc, but he will run and become another player on the field. ATM Pyke is stand in centre, block, whinge, wait to go back to centre, giving a hungry kid a go might not be any worse...just not against maric.. Pick the time after the bye and set him loose. Tipper can cover pike, Naismith can play forward better than Pyke..
Interesting decisions to come for selection after the bye.

[ugg]

Naismith is injured at the moment

[jono2707]

I agree with the theory that we seem to place not as much importance on winning centre clearances, but instead ensure a strong defensive set up looking to attack on the rebound aka the slingshot. We seem to place less emphasis in going all out to win a centre clearance but instead to ensure the defensive pressure is on the opposition as soon as they get the ball, if they get it, with the aim of winning the ball back or limiting the effectiveness of opposition forays into our defensive end. It seems we set up well to force turnovers and then move it asap down the other end of the field. Whatever we're doing seems to be working well as we are second on the ladder...

[bloodspirit]

Interesting to note that even at NEAFL level and playing against the cellar dwelling Eastlake who haven't won all year, we were comprehensively beaten in the clearances. Along with the consistent success we have despite our consistent poor clearances this leads me to think it must be something to do with our game style and we just don't value clearances that much.

I think our results vindicate our approach except I hear that the concern is that it can come back to bite us against top opposition. But we have many good results against top opposition. Just because we don't win every game or lost the Grand Final or are not the hands-down best team doesn't mean our whole approach is wrong. Maybe we just need to (a) get a bit better at doing it - which I suspect is what Horse and the team are striving for; and (b) give a bit more credit to our opposition. Hawthorn are a brilliant team with fantastic and experienced players and they put in a phenomenally good performance against us in last year's granny. It's taken them a long time to get there despite the talent on their list and in their football department (hello Alastair & co). See their protracted run of defeats to Geelong.

I wish the coaches or the club would explain more of this to us instead of leaving us to make half-arsed guesses. It's not like the opposition don't know. They have a much better idea what's going on than we do. That said, I'm not expecting them to give us all the details and best analysis - just more of the big picture stuff like why we don't win the clearances and why it doesn't seem to hurt us or bother us too much.

As an aside, one of the more interesting snippets of analysis I heard this year was by Brenton Sanderson on First Bounce during the pre-season. He said the AFL teams all use variants on 4 different game styles. But, before he could explain more, they ran out of time!

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Sorry but I might have missed the stats for the two Swans, Hawks Grand Finals but the stats show that we are a better team by losing the Centre Clearances, most of the time, with most of our attacking starting from defence or after we receive the ball from the opposition team.

2012 GF
Centre Clearances: Hawks 19 - Swans 5
All Clearances: Hawks 58 - Swans 35
Final Score: Hawks 11.15.81 - SWANS 14.7.91

2014 GF
Centre Clearances: Hawks 13 - Swans 15
All Clearances: Hawks 38 - Swans 36
Final Score: Hawks 21.11.137 - SWANS 11.8.74

Whilst they were totally different games but stats were very odd by comparison.

Also the two preliminary round games in 2012 showed the CC and Cl were pretty much even for one game with Sydney losing by 7 points and then well in front in the RD 5 game Sydney won by 37 points.

So after that, I have no idea why Centre clearances doesn't seem to hurt us too much.

[Auntie.Gerald]

The centre clearance issue strikes at our very core as fans and or ex players........from day do u are told to beat your opponent and win the ball at all cost. Ironically th Swans appear to be satisified if not happy to take a @@@@ty kick from a clearance into our back line then counter attack

it is as if our coaching dept and players lick their lips when the opposition send in a massively contested kick.

....... as i said in my earlier post 'you gotta pick your spots'

ie set up for counter attack and slingshot away

hence winning clearances doesn't mean as much UNLESS a team like the Hawks who are a deadly chip and catch team come at you and get their 6pointers !!

i think it is a structure that is less indv dependant and i think it is reflected in our low scores against weak teams.

Its like we use these games to refine our defensive structures rather then sharpen through hands attacking dominance

we tend to maintain a conservative counter attack game plan even against the weaker teams

[giant]

Did people catch the article in the Australian this week quoting Goodesy talking to ABC Grandstand after the game where he admitted they had been happy for North to win the centre clearances and try to force the turnover from there? Can't link the article unfortunately though there is an online version.

[Nico]

If you watched the Melbourne/Geelong game today you would be in no doubt that centre clearances win games. Melbourne up to 3qtr time had 4 goals directly from clean centre clearances. I saw at least 2 from Geelong also. It was a feature of the game and highlighted by the commentators. We may have got away with it against North but we will be slaughtered by the better teams.

If Zac Jones is anywhere near as good as his brother Nathan then we have a star. Nathan was outstanding today. His strength, ability to break tackles and clean disposal was a highlight.