Vultures circling Sam Reid

[Ludwig]

It's not just the point of losing Reid cause when you look at our key position forward stocks the cupboard is basically bare apart from Franklin & Reid. Who's next in line? Toby Pink has a while to go, I know some will say Rohan but he's a medium tall. Some will say Dawson but he may not even make it. Some will say Blakey but he's not even at the club n may take 4 more years to develop. You could draft someone this year but he will take atleast 3 years to come on. Our KPF stocks are very low.

As I have said before, I really hope we can keep Reid. He is fragile, which has certainly been an impediment to his development. Collingwood would seem the logical one to make him a big offer as they are desperate for another key forward and there is the brother connection. I don't know if playing with his brother is something Sam would like to do or not. His parents probably would be happy if they did.

I don't think our situation is quite as dire as you suggest.

• We still have Franklin for 5 more years after this one. I think he will be able to play out his contract and perform at a high level.
• We usually play with a forward-ruckman plus a main ruckman. Actually 3 of our 4 ruckman are forwards, although Sinclair is unfortunately not too good at either position.
• Many teams are now playing with 1 KPF and the second KPF as a 2nd ruckman. After that, they have a variety of small to medium forwards. Adelaide, probably the best offensive side in the comp play with Walker and Jenkins in the KPF roles, plus 2 medium and 2 small forwards. It's quality that counts.
• We could mimic the Crows setup with something like Franklin, Tippett or Cameron, Rohan, Dawson, Papley and Hayward.
• We could have an excess of KPDs in a post-Grundy era if things go well. Aliir, Melican, Maibaum, Talia and AJ all can be quality key defenders. 3 of them could be used as forwards. Aliir, Maibaum and AJ have all played forward during parts of their careers. We have been playing Maibaum forward in parts of games to try him out there.
• Toby Pink is not without a chance. For the last pick in the draft he's a pretty good prospect. Way too early to make a call on him, but certainly interested in his development. Good size and can play forward, defence and in the ruck.
• If Reid does leave we should be sitting with 2 1st round picks in a draft with good KPFs, so it is not unrealistic to think that we could get one this year and then get Blakey in 2018.

Reid's partner is not much in the news. I wonder if she's a Sydney girl. It could be the critical factor. He also has 2 Sydney dogs. The ugly one must be around 6 yo now and not keen to move to Melbourne. Could be the decider.

I'd prefer to see us get rid of Tippo and match the $$$ to keep reid, but I completely agree Mug that it wouldn't be the worse outcome in that circumstance, if we got the 1st round draft pick it should probably give us (knowing the AFL, they'll find a way to screw us over).

The Tippett situation has nothing to do with Reid. We just have to accept that Tippett is contracted until the end of 2018, probably on around 800k. No club will pick up his contract for next year. What happens in 2019 and beyond with Tippett is something we can deal with next year. A lot of ruckmen seem to get injured. He's probably going around the norm. When he's up and firing, he's a very important part of the team.

[Boddo]

Free agency is rubbish anyhow. Never mind that its pick3 and 19, but everyone gets penalised that isnt drafting a free agent, and it stinks.

Why should anyone have a pick pushed back because we drafted Franklin? The Swans have been a big beneficiary of free agency with Franklin alone, but the compensation side of free agency is broken.

Because Franklin n Reid are the perfect examples of why there needs to be compensation. Both clubs have invested heavily into both players and then in their prime lose them for virtually nothing. We are talking about a 25 year old Reid coming into his prime not a 29 year old Reid. The issue with compo is it's tied to ladder positions not what the player is worth. No way was Franklin worth only pick 19 & now the Hawks are paying for it. If they were truly compensated they would have a couple young guns coming up through the ranks which they deserve. Now that's compensation for one of the best players to ever play the game. They were the ones that could see & develop franklins potential and not pick Richard Tambling. And clubs get penalised with ladder positions all the time now with the order changing with F/S & academy picks.

[Boddo]

As I have said before, I really hope we can keep Reid. He is fragile, which has certainly been an impediment to his development. Collingwood would seem the logical one to make him a big offer as they are desperate for another key forward and there is the brother connection. I don't know if playing with his brother is something Sam would like to do or not. His parents probably would be happy if they did.

I don't think our situation is quite as dire as you suggest.

• We still have Franklin for 5 more years after this one. I think he will be able to play out his contract and perform at a high level.
• We usually play with a forward-ruckman plus a main ruckman. Actually 3 of our 4 ruckman are forwards, although Sinclair is unfortunately not too good at either position.
• Many teams are now playing with 1 KPF and the second KPF as a 2nd ruckman. After that, they have a variety of small to medium forwards. Adelaide, probably the best offensive side in the comp play with Walker and Jenkins in the KPF roles, plus 2 medium and 2 small forwards. It's quality that counts.
• We could mimic the Crows setup with something like Franklin, Tippett or Cameron, Rohan, Dawson, Papley and Hayward.
• We could have an excess of KPDs in a post-Grundy era if things go well. Aliir, Melican, Maibaum, Talia and AJ all can be quality key defenders. 3 of them could be used as forwards. Aliir, Maibaum and AJ have all played forward during parts of their careers. We have been playing Maibaum forward in parts of games to try him out there.
• Toby Pink is not without a chance. For the last pick in the draft he's a pretty good prospect. Way too early to make a call on him, but certainly interested in his development. Good size and can play forward, defence and in the ruck.
• If Reid does leave we should be sitting with 2 1st round picks in a draft with good KPFs, so it is not unrealistic to think that we could get one this year and then get Blakey in 2018.

Reid's partner is not much in the news. I wonder if she's a Sydney girl. It could be the critical factor. He also has 2 Sydney dogs. The ugly one must be around 6 yo now and not keen to move to Melbourne. Could be the decider.

The Tippett situation has nothing to do with Reid. We just have to accept that Tippett is contracted until the end of 2018, probably on around 800k. No club will pick up his contract for next year. What happens in 2019 and beyond with Tippett is something we can deal with next year. A lot of ruckmen seem to get injured. He's probably going around the norm. When he's up and firing, he's a very important part of the team.

We have Franklin in his prime for maybe 2-3 more years tops. No way will he be the player he is in four years time.

They are bit part forwards not you kpf required.

Agree it is quality n we don't have it atm.

By the time most of those players are in their prime the game will have moved on from what the crows are doing now.

All those defenders failed as forwards coming up from juniors. Maibaum made it because he moved to defence. Aliir played ruck in Brisbane academy & then moved to defence when moved to WA. There is no way you can count on anything when it comes to AJ.

Pink I agree has potential but it's long way off from him holding down a key forward position in the seniors.

I'm not trying to argue and it's great that your looking for positives but we have to face reality and that's that our KPF stocks are low. Yes we will go to the draft but there is no way we draft say Blakey at the end of 2018 n he steps in as the key prospect in 2019. That's why I feel Reid is important to keep. You would have an aging Franklin with Reid in his prime in 2019 with say Blakey playing mobile 3rd tall learning off them.

[mcs]

He also has 2 Sydney dogs. The ugly one must be around 6 yo now and not keen to move to Melbourne. Could be the decider. .

Haha good one Ludwig!

The Tippett situation has nothing to do with Reid. We just have to accept that Tippett is contracted until the end of 2018, probably on around 800k. No club will pick up his contract for next year. What happens in 2019 and beyond with Tippett is something we can deal with next year. A lot of ruckmen seem to get injured. He's probably going around the norm. When he's up and firing, he's a very important part of the team.

I agree Ludwig that it is highly unlikely he would be going anywhere - but funnier things have happened, and picking up more than a decent part of the tab for a year would not be a particularly unusual step, should the club decide that they want to move on from Tippett, and it enabled us to do something else with the partial saving we would make (for instance, matching any offer for Reid). I don't at all think it will happen - my original comment was made on the basis that I'd prefer to see him moved on then lose Reid by not matching an offer.

[CureTheSane]

Strange that everyone wants to keep Reid and dump Tippett because Tippo is injury prone.
I haven't been a huge fan of Reid, but am slowly being sold on him. Still a fan or Tippett and hope he stays but at the end of the season I dare say one of the two will go.

[Ludwig]

We have Franklin in his prime for maybe 2-3 more years tops. No way will he be the player he is in four years time.

They are bit part forwards not you kpf required.

Agree it is quality n we don't have it atm.

By the time most of those players are in their prime the game will have moved on from what the crows are doing now.

All those defenders failed as forwards coming up from juniors. Maibaum made it because he moved to defence. Aliir played ruck in Brisbane academy & then moved to defence when moved to WA. There is no way you can count on anything when it comes to AJ.

Pink I agree has potential but it's long way off from him holding down a key forward position in the seniors.

I'm not trying to argue and it's great that your looking for positives but we have to face reality and that's that our KPF stocks are low. Yes we will go to the draft but there is no way we draft say Blakey at the end of 2018 n he steps in as the key prospect in 2019. That's why I feel Reid is important to keep. You would have an aging Franklin with Reid in his prime in 2019 with say Blakey playing mobile 3rd tall learning off them.

I agree that it would be great if we could secure Reid with a new contract. But it may be out of our control if he really wants to accept an offer from another club. If that's what happens, we will just have to move on and find a way.

There is good reason to feel positive about finding a solution if Reid does move on. Let's face it, Reid hasn't set the world on fire yet, he's been out a lot with injury, and we've still done well enough during that time. I think the timing is just right for when Blakey is due to come on board and if we lose Reid, we will probably go for a KPF in this year's draft. You call Aliir, Maibaum and AJ failures as forwards who were moved to defence, but I think this is an unfair call as these positional changes were made when they were just teenagers and Maibaum played well as a forward last year. We are trying to cover Tippett by drafting Cameron. I don't know what more we can do to deal with the situation, one that has yet to eventuate. If we don't renew Tippett's contract for 2019, and things don't work out well in securing another good KPF, we perhaps could go to the free agency market. So there are plenty of solutions and the club always seems to find a way.

[Boddo]

I agree that it would be great if we could secure Reid with a new contract. But it may be out of our control if he really wants to accept an offer from another club. If that's what happens, we will just have to move on and find a way.

There is good reason to feel positive about finding a solution if Reid does move on. Let's face it, Reid hasn't set the world on fire yet, he's been out a lot with injury, and we've still done well enough during that time. I think the timing is just right for when Blakey is due to come on board and if we lose Reid, we will probably go for a KPF in this year's draft. You call Aliir, Maibaum and AJ failures as forwards who were moved to defence, but I think this is an unfair call as these positional changes were made when they were just teenagers and Maibaum played well as a forward last year. We are trying to cover Tippett by drafting Cameron. I don't know what more we can do to deal with the situation, one that has yet to eventuate. If we don't renew Tippett's contract for 2019, and things don't work out well in securing another good KPF, we perhaps could go to the free agency market. So there are plenty of solutions and the club always seems to find a way.

Agree it's probably out of our control. Blakey will be a gun no doubt about that but he will def need bigger bodied more experienced forwards around him or they are just throwing him to the wolves the same as Moore at the pies. Aliir played ruck with the Brisbane academy n moved to defence over here in WA. Was tried occasionally as a forward n was not much. Maibaum only got drafted after moving out of forward to defence, he's played occasional stints in the forward line in the neafl only to get a touch as the ball was not down there a lot. Definitely being groomed to take over Grundy. AJ I never said was a failure just said there is no guarantee he'll even make it back, hope he does though. The club has always found a way but the last time they found a way was we ended up with Sinclair for good coin. Atm if Reid left I don't think there is an answer apart from Tippet to permanent KPF n that's about it. I do hold out a lot of hope for Pink, Dawson but they are basically untried. But time will tell. Cheers

[Mountain Man]

Cameron as a forward might be a reasonable short term solution - and bring back Tom D to 'strengthen' the ruck

[Nico]

He didn't play last year so there wasn't a hole in the forward line then. St Kilda has pick 1 and McCartin doesn't look likely. Reiwolt is due to retire so trade him to the Saints if he wants to go.

[Nico]

Reid is the first of unsigned players that give likes of Niall something to talk about every year.

[moocher]

Why wouldn't we just back end a contract for Reid so in 2018 he is on a restricted amount that is compensated for in 2019 & beyond when Tippo's contract is completed and he is either retired or traded. Am I missing something?

[Boddo]

He didn't play last year so there wasn't a hole in the forward line then. St Kilda has pick 1 and McCartin doesn't look likely. Reiwolt is due to retire so trade him to the Saints if he wants to go.

hes a RFA. There will be no trade.

[Industrial Fan]

Because Franklin n Reid are the perfect examples of why there needs to be compensation. Both clubs have invested heavily into both players and then in their prime lose them for virtually nothing. We are talking about a 25 year old Reid coming into his prime not a 29 year old Reid. The issue with compo is it's tied to ladder positions not what the player is worth. No way was Franklin worth only pick 19 & now the Hawks are paying for it. If they were truly compensated they would have a couple young guns coming up through the ranks which they deserve. Now that's compensation for one of the best players to ever play the game. They were the ones that could see & develop franklins potential and not pick Richard Tambling. And clubs get penalised with ladder positions all the time now with the order changing with F/S & academy picks.

no issue with clubs being compensated but it shouldn't be at the cost of every other club. The club drafting the player should pay - no one else.

Free agency should be some form of arbitration to help trades rather than a compensation raffle.

So whichever club picks up Fyfe won't pay anything in draft terms but the 16 clubs not involved in the trade are penalised as their picks get pushed back.

I don't know if it's just me that thinks the system is broken but to me it's a disaster.

[Ludwig]

I don't know if it's just me that thinks the system is broken but to me it's a disaster.

You are far from alone on this matter. Many commentators have pointed out the failings of the current system.

The problem with having the club who signs a free agent give compensation undermines what the AFLPA has achieved with getting the players free agency, for if the club has to compensate for signing a free agent, well, it really isn't free agency, is it?

The other option to the present system is just to abandon AFL compensation completely, so we have a true free agency. The problem the AFL see in this solution is that the stronger clubs will simply raid the weaker clubs. It's already happening with contracted players who are not free agents. Without any compensation unpopular clubs will be drained of even more talent than has been happening. I think this solution will most negatively impact on the Queensland clubs, but might also have a negative impact on the Swans and Giants in the long term. The offset to this has been the academies, but the AFL seems to be continually eroding this method to equlise the talent moving to the traditional AFL states.

[Mug Punter]

no issue with clubs being compensated but it shouldn't be at the cost of every other club. The club drafting the player should pay - no one else.

Free agency should be some form of arbitration to help trades rather than a compensation raffle.

So whichever club picks up Fyfe won't pay anything in draft terms but the 16 clubs not involved in the trade are penalised as their picks get pushed back.

I don't know if it's just me that thinks the system is broken but to me it's a disaster.

Couldn't agree more but just not sure how you work out what the drafting club should give up....