Match Day Thread Rnd. 5. Sydney V GWS. SCG. 19.25 pm.

[S.S. Bleeder]

I still think the boys are spooked by the GF loss - they need a good shrink and they need them now!!!

You can't blame them for being spooked. Because of the corrupt umpiring they don't know was is legal and what is illegal. We've been screwed by the umpires and AFL for a number of years now and it has to be playing on their minds.

[dejavoodoo44]

Season 2017: Everything is working out just fine!

good so far.jpg

[waswan]

What Shaw said is nothing i didnt say about our coaches Box about 10 times last night

[Ludwig]

There has been a lot of valid criticism of our star midfielders, especially Hanners and Parker. I don't know what the problem is with them. It's hard to see why 2 of the best midfielders in the league at the peak of their careers should fall away so much. For those who say our midfield is too slow, just imagine if we still had Mitchell.

We don't have to think about a premiership this year, so we can cut the emotion and just focus on building the kind of team that can win in the future, a team with speed and skill. It's easy to see what it looks like. We saw it last night, but it wasn't wearing red and white.

The number 1 problem we have, and it's not a new one, is moving the ball out of defence.

• Drop Reg. He's been great, but is too slow and fumbley.
• Move Lloyd out of defence. He's one of our better players now, but he's not a defender and can be exploited 1 on 1.
• Move Mills to the midfield. He's okay in defence, but he's needed more in the middle.
• Play 3 tall defenders: Talia (could be Maibaum in future), Aliir and Melican.
• Bring Newman back. He may be the best kick on the team. Should be taking the kick ins.
• Use Jones for run and carry out of defence.
• O'Riordan could become part of the defence if we have a rookie elevation spot open.
• When Rampe comes back, put him in the midfield. He's a big body with good pace.
• Smith stays for now, but I would be grooming Sam Fisher to play the small defender role in the future.
• Laidler has played well in the NEAFL. He's a good player. Just a bit slow. Good depth to have at the club.
• Our defence (8 players): Talia, Aliir, Melican, Newman, Marsh, Smith, Jones, O'Riordan.

Number 2 problem is the ruck. Most of the time they seem to be injured, so it's hard to plan who is playing.

• I don't know what to do with Tippett. He's only 30 and is still has another year on his big contract. So what do we do with him. For now, he may have to play in the reserves to see if he can regain form. He has to play as a ruckman if he plays as anything.
• Naismith is a good tap ruckman, but he's a liability around the ground. Needs to fix that part of his game. Injured too often anyway.
• Sinclair? Do we have to say more?
• Cameron looks the best option. If he can hold his own in the ruck he adds a lot around the ground with his marking and goal kicking. But needs to be tested at AFL level.
• Left field option 1: Play Aliir in the ruck. I think this could be his best position. I like the fact that he could pop up anywhere on the ground. He can be very damaging.
• Left field option 2: Play Towers in the ruck. He can make a contest because of his leap. Makes up 15 or more cms on true sized ruckmen. Wish he were a better player, but for a ruckman, would be good around the ground.
• Left field option 3: Don't play any ruckman. Just have a midfielder make a bit of a contest without making physical contact then try to win the ball back with having that extra midfielder at ground level.

Put McVeigh on the LTIL. Even if he recovers from his calf and now hamstring injury he can't add anything to this team. He's going to retire at the end of the year anyway. Elevate O'Riordan.

Put Kieran Jack on the LTIL. I don't know what his problem is, but he clearly is not well. Give him an 8 week rest and try to get him fixed up. Elevate Edwards. Not the perfect player, but brings a lot of energy to the game, something we are lacking.

We are in a good position to experiment now and try a few different things. We should be able to find a solution by the end of the season. It will help with our end of season decisions on player movements and drafting.

The worst thing we could do is to do the same old thing and just say (as our coach often does): "We have to get better." Saying it week after week won't make it happen. Let's not waste the year completely.

[rb4x]

I think Horse had written the game off before the start and was playing Papley, Tippet, Rohan and Heeney to give them game time before next week. All of them should have been in the NEAFL if there were adequate replacements. Was not helped by the reserves having a bye last weekend so none there were showing form or even getting match fit. For Carlton I would be bringing back Newman and Aliir and giving Rose good consideration. I am even thinking that the Jack of the B variety might be a better choice than the K variety. At least he can run even though he butchers the ball. For outs there are plenty of options. We should and must see a more interested team next week. McVeigh should only be considered for the NEAFL if fit.

[tlock]

Letting Mumford go to get Tippett was a grave mistake.

[ugg]

Letting Mumford go to get Tippett was a grave mistake.

They played together for a year

[Meg]

Letting Mumford go to get Tippett was a grave mistake.

We didn't let Mumford go to get Tippett. The two both played for the Swans in 2013. We let Mumford go when we recruited Buddy.

We recruited Tippett because we had played throughout 2012 without a specialist full forward making do with several makeshift options including LRT. It was the most obvious gap in the Swans team structure. The Tippett recruitment made good sense at the time. No one would have dreamt that 12 months later Buddy would come along.

[dimelb]

We didn't let Mumford go to get Tippett. The two both played for the Swans in 2013. We let Mumford go when we recruited Buddy.

We recruited Tippett because we had played throughout 2012 without a specialist full forward making do with several makeshift options including LRT. It was the most obvious gap in the Swans team structure. The Tippett recruitment made good sense at the time. No one would have dreamt that 12 months later Buddy would come along.

Quite right.

And until he went down with a prolonged injury latish last season it was still a good move.

[mcs]

We didn't let Mumford go to get Tippett. The two both played for the Swans in 2013. We let Mumford go when we recruited Buddy.

We recruited Tippett because we had played throughout 2012 without a specialist full forward making do with several makeshift options including LRT. It was the most obvious gap in the Swans team structure. The Tippett recruitment made good sense at the time. No one would have dreamt that 12 months later Buddy would come along.

Exactly Meg - i get frustrated by those trying to rewrite history to make it a Tippo v Mumford story. It was most definitely not.

I dont think Tippett has worked out for us overall, but as you eloquently outline, the move made plenty of sense at the time.

[bloodspirit]

I think Horse had written the game off before the start and was playing Papley, Tippet, Rohan and Heeney to give them game time before next week. All of them should have been in the NEAFL if there were adequate replacements. Was not helped by the reserves having a bye last weekend so none there were showing form or even getting match fit. For Carlton I would be bringing back Newman and Aliir and giving Rose good consideration. I am even thinking that the Jack of the B variety might be a better choice than the K variety. At least he can run even though he butchers the ball. For outs there are plenty of options. We should and must see a more interested team next week. McVeigh should only be considered for the NEAFL if fit.

I agree with much of this.

******

We let go of Mumford to get Buddy, not Tippett. Highly regrettable that it was necessary.

*******

Ludwig, I congratulate you on your constructive criticism and concrete proposed solutions. However I dont agree with most of it/them. In particular I don't agree that at a time when we already have one of the youngest and less experienced teams that we can afford to keep jettisoning more and more of our senior players just because they are underperforming. In most cases they are still at least as good and likely better than the alternative and they have a wealth of knowledge and experience that we need them to use to guide the new blood.

The players we are talking about have been great for the club and excellent across the competition for a long time and there time is not up yet. Kizza and Macca may be exceptions. I don't know what's wrong with Kizza but possibly he needs a spell in the twos. With Macca I don't think we should rush him back in to the side but his on field direction and leadership may be something that we could really use - but not if he can't play properly.

Reg and Smooch we need in the backline given the inexperience around them . Smooch has long been celebrated at our club and was finally recognised as All Australian. Reg is coming off his best ever season where many thought he was unlucky not to be recognised All Australian. Neither is yet 30 years old. Now if they were underperforming and surrounded by stability that would be one thing. But Mal and Marty are long gone. Teddy is gone. Rampe is out. Macca is out. We've got players like Swampy, AA, Newman, Melican and even Mills around them. Not only might this explain why their play is suffering but it shows why we need to stick fat with them and get them playing well again. Only once the newer blood is better established and performing better themselves will we be able to afford the luxury of dropping these guys if they are still underperforming. I was impressed by Melican, who did his job, last night but I can't say he was really better than Grundy. We need a mix of old and new and to allow the old to teach the new. Even if the old are not at their peak they have the knowledge and we need to ensure they pass on what they can. It is a pity that Reg is not better at this. He he seems neither a natural nor enthusiastic leader. Incidentally, one of the many things I like about Newman is that, in the 2s, he exhibits a fair bit of leadership. I hope he makes it back to seniors sooner rather than later.

*****

Returning to the coaches, I am standing by Horse. But perhaps we need some other new blood? Perhaps Dew will soon get a well earned senior opportunity somewhere and we can look to bring in someone with fresh ideas? Are Playfair and Francou continuing to perform well? It's impossible to gauge from outside but I hope and expect the club is considering these issues.

[Ludwig]

Reg and Smooch we need in the backline given the inexperience around them . Smooch has long been celebrated at our club and was finally recognised as All Australian. Reg is coming off his best ever season where many thought he was unlucky not to be recognised All Australian. Neither is yet 30 years old.

Reg will be 31 in June, Smooch 29. I've not suggested that Smooch be dropped. It's not an age problem with Reg, more that we need players to drive the ball out of defence and Reg is not that kind of defender. He doesn't have the playing style that we require to become a more rebounding side out of defence rather than a staunch defensive side that can repel one opposition thrust after another. We need players that can kick well and run.

The main point I have been making is a change in mindset. We may well be able to make the finals this year with a good run, but I don't think it will matter in the end. It's far more important to find the right mix of players that can work together to play the kind of football that can match it with the best. I think we can do a rebuild on the run, but it has to start now.

Let's not do a Hawthorn and pretend we are still a championship side. We are rebuilding, but have a lot more tools in the shed to do it with than Hawthorn do. If we do it right, we can be back with best very quickly.

[CureTheSane]

Let's not do a Hawthorn and pretend we are still a championship side. We are rebuilding, but have a lot more tools in the shed to do it with than Hawthorn do. If we do it right, we can be back with best very quickly.

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Form varies, and I have faith that ours will turn.
The word 'rebuilding' being used right now?
To me that's laughable.
I get that some people will get frustrated and give up, but I still think we can turn it all around.

[tasswan]

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Form varies, and I have faith that ours will turn.
The word 'rebuilding' being used right now?
To me that's laughable.
I get that some people will get frustrated and give up, but I still think we can turn it all around.

I agree with both posts.
We are rebuilding in as far as getting game time into some of the younger player and I think we can turn this season around. I do doubt we can go 13-4 for the rest of the year to make the finals though

[Ludwig]

Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Form varies, and I have faith that ours will turn.
The word 'rebuilding' being used right now?
To me that's laughable.
I get that some people will get frustrated and give up, but I still think we can turn it all around.

When you play 13 debutantes in 1 year + 5 games, it looks like rebuilding to me. It's not a curse word. Even though we are in the bottom 2 right now, it doesn't mean we can't be a decent competitive team in the process. I expect we will go on some sort of a winning streak now as we enter an easier part of the fixture. But there is no denying that there is a big gulf between us and GSW.

I think we had and excellent draft and expect 6 or 7 out of the 9 players drafted to make it in the AFL. That's a big number for one draft. Florent and Hayward are still a bit too young right now to handle a quality side like the Giants, but wait till next year. Fox looked okay. Fisher will be a good player.