Changes for R8 v North

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  • S.S. Bleeder
    Senior Player
    • Sep 2014
    • 2165

    #61
    Originally posted by barry
    There are three lines of thinking in this thread:
    - We won. Therefore everyone in the team played well regardless of stats or stats rolled up into fantasy point summary.
    - We won because of leadership, despite this being difficult to measure, and leadership is attributed on a sliding scale of oldest to youngest, or favorite to least favorite to suit your point of view.
    - Direct player analysis irrespective of the result.

    For example, Dean Towers is a mature age player, experienced, captain of the 2's, got a lot of the ball, came into the side as we had our first win. Surely his "leadership" index must be higher than McVeigh for this game? lol.
    Like you, I didn't agree with McVeigh coming straight back into the side. Not because I don't rate him, but because every time he's come back into the side after a long injury it's taken him many weeks to find form. Hopefully he plays well again this week and it wasn't an anomaly.

    Comment

    • barry
      Veterans List
      • Jan 2003
      • 8499

      #62
      Originally posted by S.S. Bleeder
      Like you, I didn't agree with McVeigh coming straight back into the side. Not because I don't rate him, but because every time he's come back into the side after a long injury it's taken him many weeks to find form. Hopefully he plays well again this week and it wasn't an anomaly.
      That's the same reason I have and so far that view still holds weight.

      Also this year is entirely different to 2016 as we aren't chasing down a flag, which could be good or bad for McVeigh. I've helps the youngsters or makes his spot available for the yoof.

      Comment

      • Mug Punter
        On the Rookie List
        • Nov 2009
        • 3325

        #63
        Originally posted by Ludwig
        Our injury list is suddenly looking very good with only AJ out beyond round 9. I hear Ben Ronke will appear in a video game this weekend.

        HCF Injury List
        Edwards (shoulder) test

        Jack (hip) 1 week
        Johnson (knee) indefinite
        Laidler (Achilles) test
        Rampe (arm) 2 weeks
        Robinson (collarbone) test
        Rohan (concussion) test
        Tippett (hip) test
        Add a fit and firing Jack, Rampe, Rohan and Robbo into that side on the weekend and it really becomes a selection headache.

        Right now I'd play Tippett in the twos this week but we all know that won't happen.

        Massive game for us this week to kickstart the season, not like in terms of finals but just to get some momentum. Even if we go 3-7 at the bye it gives us a fighting of a break even season which in my book will be success from 0-6

        Comment

        • Cosmic Wizard
          recruit me pretty please!
          • Sep 2005
          • 620

          #64
          Originally posted by liz
          There is zero chance of Smith not being selected in the team in the near future (unless he's injured).
          Exactly! One of Horse Pets.

          When the ball is coming into the defense quickly, and he is on a fast small forward, he is very vulnerable.

          Reminds me of Hawthorn Josh Gibson, once was great, is no more, but the club can't bare to drop him to the two!
          doof-doof

          Comment

          • grarmy
            Warming the Bench
            • Aug 2010
            • 406

            #65
            Originally posted by Ludwig
            Our injury list is suddenly looking very good with only AJ out beyond round 9. I hear Ben Ronke will appear in a video game this weekend.

            HCF Injury List
            Edwards (shoulder) test

            Jack (hip) 1 week
            Johnson (knee) indefinite
            Laidler (Achilles) test
            Rampe (arm) 2 weeks
            Robinson (collarbone) test
            Rohan (concussion) test
            Tippett (hip) test
            I would definitely have some of these guys return via the twos. Sinclair did okay and improved over his previous outing. Don't see why Tippo should come back underdone. Ditto for KJ and Rohan, who looked bewildered prior to his concussion.
            "Play like you can’t lose."

            Comment

            • caj23
              Senior Player
              • Aug 2003
              • 2462

              #66
              Originally posted by Cosmic Wizard
              Exactly! One of Horse Pets.

              When the ball is coming into the defense quickly, and he is on a fast small forward, he is very vulnerable.

              Reminds me of Hawthorn Josh Gibson, once was great, is no more, but the club can't bare to drop him to the two!
              LOL can you name me a defender who isn't in this situation?

              He's been down this year admittedly, but I think he's shown better signs over the last couple of weeks. I don't think he's dropped off a cliff like Gibson who is 4-5 years older than him

              Comment

              • Markwebbos
                Veterans List
                • Jul 2016
                • 7186

                #67
                Originally posted by grarmy
                I would definitely have some of these guys return via the twos. Sinclair did okay and improved over his previous outing. Don't see why Tippo should come back underdone. Ditto for KJ and Rohan, who looked bewildered prior to his concussion.
                I can handle Rohan for Florent. assuming they bring Tippo straight in, which they will, should Naismith or Sinclair go out? I'm guessing Sinclair out.

                If Robinson does come back in a week or two, who goes out? Towers, Hewett?

                Comment

                • RogueSwan
                  McVeigh for Brownlow
                  • Apr 2003
                  • 4602

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Markwebbos
                  ... I'm guessing Sinclair out...
                  He did look a lot better this week (but they all did) with good delivery and was actually pulling down some marks.
                  "Fortunately, this is the internet, so knowing nothing is no obstacle to having an opinion!." Beerman 18-07-2017

                  Comment

                  • Ludwig
                    Veterans List
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 9359

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Markwebbos
                    I can handle Rohan for Florent. assuming they bring Tippo straight in, which they will, should Naismith or Sinclair go out? I'm guessing Sinclair out.

                    If Robinson does come back in a week or two, who goes out? Towers, Hewett?
                    Florent is the most natural to go out as he didn't do much in the Brisbane game. Although it's not a positional switch, Newman would be the best to replace him. With Macca and Newman in defence, we can release all of Lloyd, Mills and Jones to play mostly through the midfield. All 3 are good at getting the ball from the midfield into our forward line quickly.

                    Rohan comes in if we want to drop Towers. I'm ambivalent about this one despite not rating Towers, but he did play well against Brisbane and Gary hasn't done much this season and could perhaps look to get form and conditioning in the reserves this week.

                    Sinclair had a good game. I do like his hard work. It's been his marking and ball handling that let's him down. I think we should ask the question: Would Sinclair be in our best 22 as a key forward? I really don't think so. His rucking is only mediocre, so he really has to make it as a forward who fills in for the first ruckman. For Tippett, it's just a matter of form. When he is in form, he's one of the very best in the league at his position. Who knows what form he will bring to the game this week if he's chosen. It would be good to bring a more competent ruckman against someone of Goldstein's caliber.

                    Robinson will most likely have to wait for an injury or form drop to get back into the seniors. He's a decent player, but not yet in our best 22. We still need to work Aliir and KJ back into the senior side and would expect Rampe to come straight back when he is fit. As the injury list diminishes, the competition for spots rises.

                    Comment

                    • royboy42
                      Senior Player
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 2076

                      #70
                      I wouldn't be surprised to see Rohan come back thru the twos. From (and including) the GF to the concussion hit, he has been unimpressive.

                      Towers seemed to lift a notch last week. Seemed a lot more confident with ball in hand, and would be unlucky to go down this week.

                      McVeigh more than justified his return. He is quite a calming influence down back. Of course, time will tell with him. He did appear slower in 2016, and this could be his swansong year. But certainly not this week.

                      If Tippett can find the form of early 16 in the next few weeks, he will be a vital figure in our second half.

                      Hayward is a big part of our future...still light , and needs management in order not to burn him out this season.

                      Sorry if some of this is bleeding obvious, but knee jerk reactions can be deceptive.

                      Comment

                      • barry
                        Veterans List
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 8499

                        #71
                        I would imagine Rohan and Tippett would come straight back in. But they are only worth it in the seniors if they are 100% fit. May get a run in the 2's if they only wanted a 1/4 or two game time.

                        How many possessions would McVeigh need to hold his place if we lost to North ?

                        Comment

                        • Billericay
                          Regular in the Side
                          • May 2013
                          • 712

                          #72
                          Originally posted by barry
                          I would imagine Rohan and Tippett would come straight back in. But they are only worth it in the seniors if they are 100% fit. May get a run in the 2's if they only wanted a 1/4 or two game time.

                          How many possessions would McVeigh need to hold his place if we lost to North ?
                          I really do think they need to keep stats on 'pointing' and 'voice acts.' You can't judge his performance on possessions alone he is the best finger pointer in the team.

                          Barry, your method seems to be to go to the AFL Match Centre and identify the lowest DreamTeam points scorers to be dropped. So using this approach those going back to the NEAFL (in order) are: Florent, Smith, Reid, Hayward, McVeigh.

                          I really don't think you assess a players performance in that way or on a required number of possessions. What's your pass mark, 30 plus and 5 goals?

                          Comment

                          • ugg
                            Can you feel it?
                            Site Admin
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 15967

                            #73
                            Horse's press conference

                            Tippett and Rohan will train today and will be looked at.
                            Aliir in the mix for this week, club have moved on from what happened last week.
                            Rampe is a chance for next week.
                            Reserves live updates (Twitter)
                            Reserves WIKI -
                            Top Goalkickers| Best Votegetters

                            Comment

                            • Plugger1300
                              Warming the Bench
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 310

                              #74
                              Originally posted by barry
                              Eric Hipwood was officially the worst player on the ground by some margin. That would make his selection a mistake, no?
                              No it would not make his selection a mistake.
                              Eric is a first year player who is learning the hardest position on the ground. Your simplistic view that stats only matter is clouding your judgement.
                              All young players will struggle from time to time. Who should Brisbane play instead?
                              Same as you can't judge McVeigh (who i personally think may have gone a year too many myself) on his first game back nor will i have a set number of possies for him to get against North.

                              Comment

                              • Industrial Fan
                                Goodesgoodesgoodesgoodes!
                                • Aug 2006
                                • 3317

                                #75
                                Originally posted by barry
                                I would imagine Rohan and Tippett would come straight back in. But they are only worth it in the seniors if they are 100% fit. May get a run in the 2's if they only wanted a 1/4 or two game time.

                                How many possessions would McVeigh need to hold his place if we lost to North ?
                                Its not about numbers - the numbers and stats you've been given are a reaction to your hyperbole and prestamping his papers before he even played (you said picking him last week meant we could write off 2018 as well! ). He had a good game against the Lions, but obviously tougher tests to come.

                                How about you assess his game on merits? Maybe criticise him when he's poor and possibly even praise some good play?

                                For instance, I didnt think Towers should have come back. Has all the attributes to succeed but is pretty soft and makes horrific decisions under pressure. He's done enough to get picked again, (we didnt learn anything about his decision making under pressure against the lions) but he had a good game in a different role.

                                It isnt that hard.

                                Either way we dont want to become Tigers or the Demons where he send out the veterans to pasture at the first sign theyre slowing down as they can teach and direct the next generation of players. We already have a young team. Mcveigh isnt the player he was a few years ago, but like Smith and Grundy have more to offer than just stats.
                                He ate more cheese, than time allowed

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