Swans vs Giants - general match discussion

[goswannies]

So you conveniently leave this part out of the discussion out "an extra Sydney side gives the game a bigger presence in Sydney which benefits us, an extra Sydney side increases participation in the game which benefits Sydney, an extra Sydney side gives the northern clubs extra say in the running of the game which benefits Sydney"

I can be accused of leaving that out if I considered it. Didn't cross my mind. But while you mention it, the bigger presence of another team, IMO, only gives that other team any benefit (I'm sure you'll disagree, but it's my opinion, rather than a statement of fact, so please indulge me that). The interloper has taken market share from my team in a two team town. Some members have switched (which is their prerogative) and if they have actually switched, I cannot fathom how that has benefited my club.

As for "an extra Sydney side gives the northern clubs extra say in the running of the game which benefits Sydney", I am a little sceptical that the AFL listens to much of what NSW clubs have say (otherwise we might have been able to trade in players after Lance arrived, we might still have a COLA as there is a valid argument that it is more expensive to live in Sydney than most (if not all) capital cities, the bidding process wouldn't cost us a fortune in points to recruit an academy kid we spent $1M to develop etc. Now I'm sure your fingers are getting itchy to reply, so I'll concede that it's not wrong to have made these changes (although the trade ban was a bit harsh IMO) but I'm not actually saying that. I'm saying that having 2 clubs in Sydney didn't give us any apparent bargaining power to object to any of these penalties. Despite your apparent assertion that GW$ and my Swans have some united influence, I feel (again I make no claim of any knowledge) that each club only really has its own interests in such matters, and moreover, the AFL probably doesn't care too much what either club cares (let alone both of them together).

And you cannot seriously think every increase in the facts & figures can be attributed to the recruiting of Franklin.

I do not seriously (or even humorously) think this. Nor did I actually say it, if you bothered to read my post. I merely said it coincided with his arrival (as in his arrival at the Swans had some impact on the things that you attributed to GW$'s influence on our improvement in these areas.

Their advantages were rediculous

I agree

but you can't complain,

I disagree. As a supporter and an individual, I feel I have the right to complain about whatever I want.

every club including Sydney voted for them.

i didn't vote for them, so I reserve the right to complain about the advantages. You can accept them we'll you want, but please refrain from instructing me how to feel about the matter.

On field I hate GWS with a passion but I can see the advantages it brings us. I honestly couldn't give a flying f...k if they won a premiership or not. I've always had a bigger hatred of the bravedogs. Leaching, welfare bludging club.

You are entitled to whatever opinions you care to have, however, you choose to express them.

[Doctor]

I can't stand GWS as they are just artificial. An AFL construct. No history. An AFL indulgence who have been handed a team without a culture developed over time. It is just so instant. And I can't stand some of their players...Stevie J, Toby Greene & Mummy. His words to Buddy about his depression and the body slam on KT did it for me......

Many said the same when they moved us to Sydney.

Your opinion on some of their players is absolutely valid though. I love watching Shiel, Kelly, Patton, Devon Smith and a few others, but they do have a few tools in the team too.

[0918330512]

Many said the same when they moved us to Sydney

Therein lies the difference. We relocated. Much like StKlida relocating from Moorabbin to Docklands. We just moved further. Initially mostly same players. Mostly same administrators. Many of the same supporters (some dropped off, to be sure, new ones in Sydney joined, but many original supporters did stay. So the Swans had a history - albeit further South. We weren't manufactured. We were relocated. That's how I see it.

[Blood Fever]

Therein lies the difference. We relocated. Much like StKlida relocating from Moorabbin to Docklands. We just moved further. Initially mostly same players. Mostly same administrators. Many of the same supporters (some dropped off, to be sure, new ones in Sydney joined, but many original supporters did stay. So the Swans had a history - albeit further South. We weren't manufactured. We were relocated. That's how I see it.

Fair call on the difference. As an old South fan who stuck,though, there was a period of time where there wasn't the same bond between Sydney and Melbourne. As I recall, there was even talk of changing colours(blue and white). This seemed to change when Roos took over and ever since there has been a sense of one team, two cities. A couple of flags and sustained success helps!

[dejavoodoo44]

This is the first time the new Unsociable Swans v2.0 have taken on the mouthy upstarts. Could be an explosive combination.

Someone in the media (sorry I forget who) suggested Swans would definitely go after Heath Shaw as they'd targeted JJ and others.

My 3 top targets at GWS would actually be Greene, Johnson, Mummy. I'd love to see Naismith have a crack at ShaneWhoAppearsToBeOnTheWane

Zak Jones marking Greene? A match made in somewhere other than heaven.

[barry]

It's sad to see the same old lines that we used against us, are now being used by us against giants.
$wans = GW$,
Artificial = Artificial.

I can only assume those calling those name s weren't around in the 80's and 90's.

Think of something original.

[goswannies]

Fair call on the difference. As an old South fan who stuck,though, there was a period of time where there wasn't the same bond between Sydney and Melbourne. As I recall, there was even talk of changing colours(blue and white). This seemed to change when Roos took over and ever since there has been a sense of one team, two cities. A couple of flags and sustained success helps!

There was a lot of talk over the years of change.

At one stage, when Edelsten took over, there was a thought of changing the colours to green & gold (a mocked up glossy color picture appeared in a footy mag of Tony Morwood in action in a yellow jumper with a green V), as I recall it was felt that if might garner Australia-wide appeal.

There was also a suggestion of changing from the Swans to the Red Backs (as in spiders) after our jumper change from having those red stripes down the side of a white jumper to having an all red back.

Glad both were vetoed.

I too was a South supporter. I feel I am now pretty well versed in the relocation saga (and the Swans history in general - I own and have read many books that detail the club pre-dating my support) but at the time of the move, I had been supporting them for South for 2 years and lived in rural Victoria. I never attended a game as dad worked every weekend so travelling to Mebourne to watch the footy was never an option. In fact, at the time dad wasn't a footy fan at all (he is now and his allegiance is to the Swans - in fact the very first game we attended together was on September 24, 2005).
From memory, prior to the 1982 season, footy matches were only televised in the country as the match of the day. South rarely got that, so my Swans viewing was limited to channel 7 Sunday Sports highlights and ABC highlights (so proud when Wayne Carroll was awarded the ABC Mark of the Year!). I think the night series might also have been televised around that time (or perhaps the year the Swans moved in 1982?).
I remember having to sit in the hallway with the transistor radio, in front of the heater, wearing my Swans beanie and scarf and jumper (I still have all of them - though he shorts and socks of the time are long gone) listening to the Swans matches with crackly static. In the country we didn't get every game broadcast on the radio either, so sometimes I even had to listen to other matches waiting for them to go "around the grounds" for a score update. Worse still, all too often I would finish the broadcast in tears because my beloved Swans had lost - and I expected a thorough taunting at school the next day! Hard as the only Swans supporter in a small country town.
So my memory of the relocation was that, suddenly my team was on TV every second week! We had a first up win against Melbourne. We had a night premiership soon after. So at that time, the trauma endured by hardcore South diehards was a blessing for a young boy. Now I feel deeply for the South supporters, players and the club and what it had to endure and overcome. But the relocation probably heightened my bond and love for the club which means so much to me today.

To me, Sydney and South Melbourne are truly one team. Almost every team has moved at some stage of their existence. Mine just moved a little further.

[Hotpotato]

What an epic memoir story GS.

[Blood Fever]

There was a lot of talk over the years of change.

At one stage, when Edelsten took over, there was a thought of changing the colours to green & gold (a mocked up glossy color picture appeared in a footy mag of Tony Morwood in action in a yellow jumper with a green V), as I recall it was felt that if might garner Australia-wide appeal.

There was also a suggestion of changing from the Swans to the Red Backs (as in spiders) after our jumper change from having those red stripes down the side of a white jumper to having an all red back.

Glad both were vetoed.

I too was a South supporter. I feel I am now pretty well versed in the relocation saga (and the Swans history in general - I own and have read many books that detail the club pre-dating my support) but at the time of the move, I had been supporting them for South for 2 years and lived in rural Victoria. I never attended a game as dad worked every weekend so travelling to Mebourne to watch the footy was never an option. In fact, at the time dad wasn't a footy fan at all (he is now and his allegiance is to the Swans - in fact the very first game we attended together was on September 24, 2005).
From memory, prior to the 1982 season, footy matches were only televised in the country as the match of the day. South rarely got that, so my Swans viewing was limited to channel 7 Sunday Sports highlights and ABC highlights (so proud when Wayne Carroll was awarded the ABC Mark of the Year!). I think the night series might also have been televised around that time (or perhaps the year the Swans moved in 1982?).
I remember having to sit in the hallway with the transistor radio, in front of the heater, wearing my Swans beanie and scarf and jumper (I still have all of them - though he shorts and socks of the time are long gone) listening to the Swans matches with crackly static. In the country we didn't get every game broadcast on the radio either, so sometimes I even had to listen to other matches waiting for them to go "around the grounds" for a score update. Worse still, all too often I would finish the broadcast in tears because my beloved Swans had lost - and I expected a thorough taunting at school the next day! Hard as the only Swans supporter in a small country town.
So my memory of the relocation was that, suddenly my team was on TV every second week! We had a first up win against Melbourne. We had a night premiership soon after. So at that time, the trauma endured by hardcore South diehards was a blessing for a young boy. Now I feel deeply for the South supporters, players and the club and what it had to endure and overcome. But the relocation probably heightened my bond and love for the club which means so much to me today.

To me, Sydney and South Melbourne are truly one team. Almost every team has moved at some stage of their existence. Mine just moved a little further.

Written with great feeling GS. It was traumatic for us older Bloods but now we all support the best and most respected club in the comp.

[dimelb]

Well drawn situation GS, and encouraging to see how the world has turned in our favour (to some extent anyway!)

Around 1990, when we (mrs d and I) moved from Newtown (in Sydney, not Victoria) to Melbourne, the centre point of sprawling Sydney was located in Wentworthville. (We had previously lived in Pendle Hill, the next suburb west). The only encounter we'd had with the Swans was when they turned up at Erskineville Oval to train while we were trying to run a Little Athletics club - not the Swans' fault but the slack council's.

Within a year of living in Melbourne we had decided that instead of griping about the lack of coverage of Rugby League we should have a club, and Sydney was the natural choice. By the time the AFL got around to locating a second club in Sydney, we were rusted on Swans members and were as hostile as anyone else about the proposal. Gradually we changed our perspective and now think that a second club in Sydney was a natural evolution, even more so given that by this time the population centre of Sydney was even further west. A stadium in Blacktown looked a very good idea.

Not so for the AFL. Blacktown was dumped for Flemington and the players, I gather for the most part, now live in inner Sydney. For me this is a pusillanimous avoidance of the real task of winning the west over to AFL. I don't mind (now, at any rate) the cosseting of the Giants with first round picks coming out their ears and the other benefits they have; a new club starting from nothing needs that kind of support, as we learned the hard way. If it meant that GWS would really take on the west I'd be prepared to put up with a retention allowance - like the one they took off Brisbane and should restore to them.

As it is, we have to put up with this half-done job. Perhaps we can look to a time when the AFL might have second, and wider, thoughts. In the meantime the rivalry is real, and I really want to see us topple this lot. Carna Bloods!

[MattW]

Mumford is such a dirty little p***k.
I like think he was turfed out under the "no dickheads" policy, rather than the lack of moolah.

Either way, I can't recall having less affection for a departed Swan.

[Boddo]

I can be accused of leaving that out if I considered it. Didn't cross my mind. But while you mention it, the bigger presence of another team, IMO, only gives that other team any benefit (I'm sure you'll disagree, but it's my opinion, rather than a statement of fact, so please indulge me that). The interloper has taken market share from my team in a two team town. Some members have switched (which is their prerogative) and if they have actually switched, I cannot fathom how that has benefited my club.

As for "an extra Sydney side gives the northern clubs extra say in the running of the game which benefits Sydney", I am a little sceptical that the AFL listens to much of what NSW clubs have say (otherwise we might have been able to trade in players after Lance arrived, we might still have a COLA as there is a valid argument that it is more expensive to live in Sydney than most (if not all) capital cities, the bidding process wouldn't cost us a fortune in points to recruit an academy kid we spent $1M to develop etc. Now I'm sure your fingers are getting itchy to reply, so I'll concede that it's not wrong to have made these changes (although the trade ban was a bit harsh IMO) but I'm not actually saying that. I'm saying that having 2 clubs in Sydney didn't give us any apparent bargaining power to object to any of these penalties. Despite your apparent assertion that GW$ and my Swans have some united influence, I feel (again I make no claim of any knowledge) that each club only really has its own interests in such matters, and moreover, the AFL probably doesn't care too much what either club cares (let alone both of them together).



I do not seriously (or even humorously) think this. Nor did I actually say it, if you bothered to read my post. I merely said it coincided with his arrival (as in his arrival at the Swans had some impact on the things that you attributed to GW$'s influence on our improvement in these areas.



I agree


I disagree. As a supporter and an individual, I feel I have the right to complain about whatever I want.


i didn't vote for them, so I reserve the right to complain about the advantages. You can accept them we'll you want, but please refrain from instructing me how to feel about the matter.


You are entitled to whatever opinions you care to have, however, you choose to express them.

Mostly disagree with what you've written. But I'm pretty you knew that as you wrote it.

[Beerman]

Written with great feeling GS. It was traumatic for us older Bloods but now we all support the best and most respected club in the comp.

What was the final banner as south melbourne? I remember seeing an image of it once and remember that it was a real eyebrow-raiser! They certainly wouldn't get away with something like that today.

Was very interested to see that Cameron didn't train today, but they seemed very certain he would play. Would be a big out for them, or if he's playing injured, especially since we're nearly at 100% fitness.

[barry]

The last banners before relocation/merger.

- - - Updated - - -

I heard the swans players refused to run through it.

[KTigers]

And if they were, what were they saying about the WC Eagles and the Crows when they came into the AFL?
Both these clubs were formed only four or five months before they ran out on the field for their first game.
Poor old GWS are copping it big time, when all they are doing is following an AFL "tradition" of constructing
clubs.

It's sad to see the same old lines that we used against us, are now being used by us against giants.
$wans = GW$,
Artificial = Artificial.

I can only assume those calling those name s weren't around in the 80's and 90's.

Think of something original.