Swans academy - purpose and results

[Boddo]

That Hawthorn article didn't say what they did though. It was a fluff piece on their website, and self-proclaiming to be "one of the most active participants" I'd suggest whatever they did, most other clubs did a hell of a lot less.

Everyone's responses have seemed to include the premise that without the (exact current setup of the) academy, Heeney and Mills wouldn't be on our list.

I just have a different view - that if we had a more elite academy (which again I think you could argue is what the other 3 northern clubs have, to an extent), they would have been included and on our list.

If we had an academy when LRT came through, everyone would have said "without the academy he wouldn't have been playing AFL". But the reality is we would have still identified them, supported their development, and used the rules of the time to put them straight on our list.

It was to point out that clubs did a bit more than a few school holiday clinics. you have to get them when their younger or they just end up in other sports academies. They won't be there when their 15. I do think and listening to interviews if the academies had gone down that path both players would be playing other sports as I'd said before Mills said as much on his 360 interview. I get your point about elite academies and it works very very well in soccer in Europe but I think that's because all clubs have academies. If, n that's a big if because I think elite juniors would already be tied up in other sports academies, we started to produce very good talent I've got no doubt McGuire n co would say we are just cherry picking talent and not laying any foundation for junior development in the state n tear it apart as quick as they could. But like I said if every club had academies it would never be an issue. In regards to LRT I have never said what your saying but I say it in regards to heeney n mills because of what I've previously stated. Lastly I've stated on here before that my son is eligible for the freo academy due to his mother. But as I contacted freo footy club n they couldn't guarantee that the same rules would be in place if he was ever good enough to be drafted when old enough. So he plays soccer now as his mum hates the thought that he would leave at 18. I don't think there is no way by the time he's 15 that freo would be able to bring him back to Aussie rules after 10 years of soccer. That's a player lost to the game, a mother that will never have an interest in that sport and a large family from his mothers side that would never have had an interest in sport but watch soccer now because he plays that. That's what would happen. The money Sydney spends from sponsors does not just produce talent it's basically marketing as well. I'll not respond anymore as I'm about to watch a game. But it's fine that we disagree. It's what I like about this forum people disagree n it doesn't turn into a petty childish argument. Thanks for debate Steve n have a good weekend. Cheers

[Mug Punter]

I still think Heeney and Mills would have come through to us in any setup from the past 20 years, perhaps other than the periods either side of the time we recruited LRT.

How can you possibly say that with any certainty. Isaac especially would not have been covered by an elitist watered down type model I am pretty sure and pretty much by his own admission (no AFL area and NRL supporting) but perhaps Mills may have (his grandfather played WAFL and was very good so he has AFL in his blood).

One thing I will say, and it is very much debatable point about whether the AFL or the Swans should fund it, but for the good and development of the game the Academy is the best thing that has happened to AFL since 1982 in Sydney. Any watering down of funding would have a very very negative impact on local football in Sydney generally and the junior system in particular. If Barracuda or any other parents in here can perhaps set Steve straight of the wonderful work the Swans Academy does that would be great. How would you feel about steve's new slimmed down academy?


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I understand those responders saying the academy is great, should continue as-is etc - no worries, you have a good point. Personally I can't see it staying the same for much longer though, regardless of all the points made in this thread. As soon as the AFL waters down the benefit we (potentially) get I think that will prompt the club to seriously review our investment.

Agree with this part, sure any future watering down will see us pull back our investment though we don't really know how much of the academy is covered by AFL grants, QBE sponsorship and Swans Foundation donations

[Mug Punter]

- notwithstanding the above (guess), they'd be looking at the academy as a long term investment. They'd also recognise the purpose is broader than recruiting gun AFL players.

It's absolutely a generational investment!

[Industrial Fan]

If we are talking what is best for the club then it is certainly worth reviewing the numbers the academy takes in to take top talent only. It's not a benevolent fund for the benefit of the afl community, it is to produce players for the senior team.

The Melbourne media will complain about a perceived advantage if we get a Heeney 1/10 or 1/1000 so that type of reasoning doesn't cut it for me.

No doubt the code is better off with a large intake and we may indirectly benefit by having a stronger neafl comp, etc but as an investment that is really shooting for the margins.

No issue with any of steves point, especially given he's only talking in hypotheticals.

[Blood Fever]

It's what I like about this forum people disagree n it doesn't turn into a petty childish argument. Thanks for debate Steve n have a good weekend. Cheers

You guys should run a seminar for politicians and political media in this country where every issue does turn into a petty childish argument.

[barracuda]

How can you possibly say that with any certainty. Isaac especially would not have been covered by an elitist watered down type model I am pretty sure and pretty much by his own admission (no AFL area and NRL supporting) but perhaps Mills may have (his grandfather played WAFL and was very good so he has AFL in his blood).

One thing I will say, and it is very much debatable point about whether the AFL or the Swans should fund it, but for the good and development of the game the Academy is the best thing that has happened to AFL since 1982 in Sydney. Any watering down of funding would have a very very negative impact on local football in Sydney generally and the junior system in particular. If Barracuda or any other parents in here can perhaps set Steve straight of the wonderful work the Swans Academy does that would be great. How would you feel about steve's new slimmed down academy?


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Agree with this part, sure any future watering down will see us pull back our investment though we don't really know how much of the academy is covered by AFL grants, QBE sponsorship and Swans Foundation donations

I think there is a bigger picture than just the swans when it comes to the academy. For the club and the afl Sydney is a hugely untapped market. The AFL runs the local junior comps ok but is seeing a huge drop out rate once kids hit high school. Accordingly they have to think about how to convert kids from players to fans. The academy churns literally hundreds of kids through a system that converts them to swans fans. They get the apparel, they get to go to games, they and their families feel like they are part of the club.
The value of spending money on the academy it must be measured against not only the players it might produce, but also the cradle to the grave marketing, and the improvement to the local comp. I went to the Manly V east coast prems game yesterday and watched a bunch of 15-19 year old academy kids completely dismantle east coast. Particularly the midfield where these kids completely overwhelmed a traditional prems midfield of bigger older bodies. East coast have one academy kid bailey stewart who was their best whereas manly had wicks and Osborne dominate the midfield, Rogers kicked 6 goals and young Kyle Martin who is 16 played a very polished game in the backline.

[liz]

I've split off a fair number of posts from the trading/draft thread that have wandered onto a separate topic. I thought this discussion would sit better in its own thread, with the other thread left to focus on the particulars of the current list.

I am very happy to change the thread title if someone can think of a better one. I spent exactly 2.718 seconds thinking of this one. I was trying to distinguish it from a discussion on individual academy prospects (which I am sure we already have, somewhere) but it's not an especially elegant thread title.

[Mug Punter]

I think there is a bigger picture than just the swans when it comes to the academy. For the club and the afl Sydney is a hugely untapped market. The AFL runs the local junior comps ok but is seeing a huge drop out rate once kids hit high school. Accordingly they have to think about how to convert kids from players to fans. The academy churns literally hundreds of kids through a system that converts them to swans fans. They get the apparel, they get to go to games, they and their families feel like they are part of the club.
The value of spending money on the academy it must be measured against not only the players it might produce, but also the cradle to the grave marketing, and the improvement to the local comp. I went to the Manly V east coast prems game yesterday and watched a bunch of 15-19 year old academy kids completely dismantle east coast. Particularly the midfield where these kids completely overwhelmed a traditional prems midfield of bigger older bodies. East coast have one academy kid bailey stewart who was their best whereas manly had wicks and Osborne dominate the midfield, Rogers kicked 6 goals and young Kyle Martin who is 16 played a very polished game in the backline.

Thanks Barra

It's always really interesting hearing your insights. And I agree re the fan engagement component, it's a powerful but not inexpensive tool

Is it fair to say that you think the next 5 years will see teh Academy having a profound effect on the local SFL comp as kids like Wicks and Osborne become stars in the local comp? As well as the increase in quality I think it will have a profound effect on which clubs flourish or even survive. Easts used to be very poor re juniors and relied on imports but the strength of East Juniors and Maroubra Juniors as well as the strong take rate in private schools in the area (Waverley and Cranbrook as examples) now sees their future as bright. Ditto Norths and Penno who always have had strong juniors but ECE may suffer due to being tied to GWS who are not investing as well. Then you have clubs like UTS who will struggle long term to compete at SFL and Wests who really have poor demographics and I think will struggle to survive longer term unless they modernise the way they run their club (i.e. less grumpy old men in club shirts and more families)