Swans Academy Talent

[Mug Punter]

And if you hang out on the Draft and Trading forum over on BF, barely a month goes by without someone starting a new thread whinging about why every club can't have their own academy. One Essendon fan, who clearly is fairly knowledgeable, commented that the Bombers are likely to get far more "hits" from their Tiwi Islands zone than the Swans have gotten, to date, from their NSW zone (in response to a fellow Bombers fan complaining how advantaged we've been to secure Heeney and Mills and how our academy will be an ongoing structural advantage to the Swans).

I'm a huge fan of the Academy system as anyone on here would know but I also recognise that the system is for the good of the game first and foremost.

The Academies first and foremost are there to grow the player talent and fan engagement of the GAME.

With the two new teams the AFL needed to find an extra 90+ players ready for the AFL system. With an average player life of 4 years that is an extra 22 players of AFL standard per year in addition to what was being produced before. Quite a huge increase required for the quality of the product to not be affected.

Now let's assume the wells in the TAC Cup, WAFL etc are being drained to full capacity. That means we need to find 22 new players a year from new areas which from my perspective are from one of the four following areas:

* Non AFL regions - NSW from the Riverina up and all of Queensland
* Minority groups that currently feel not engaged with the game (e.g Indians, Asians, Sudanese)
* Areas that are massively unprivileged from a socio-economic view (e.g. they may be football areas but there are social and economic reasons that stunt football development)
* Overseas

Remember we are talking incremental here. Based on the drafting to date we are getting nowhere near that number of extra kids from the academies

Point 1 is covered by the Academies. Now I suspect the AFL would like to keep the clubs out of it and fund it completely (thus not giving us any direct advantage) but they know that in the short to medium term for the Academies to work there must be a pathway to local clubs. If there isn't then they won't win the talent war for good young kids. So they have to give us that advantage which of course has been watered down (fairly IMO) but still is worthwhile. I also think the AFL recognised that the additional teams would place a huge strain on the new markets (as has been graphically shown in Qld as I believe the Suns have taken huge chunks out the Lions) and that the Academies needed to produce local kids for community engagement etc but fundamentally I think increasing the player pool is the main driver behind their existence.

Ignoring Point 4, Points 2 and 3 are covered by the NGA imo. Now there isn't any real reason why the AFL couldn't fund these areas directly and there is no reason why the clubs should get access. But I think, and I am sure it is a minority view here, that I am happy for those clubs to have access to their zones, for the following reasons
(1) They will be benefitting the game;
(2) They'll be paying for it; and most importantly
(3) it gets the other clubs off our backs re the Academies

I'm sure there will be howls of protest on here re my post. And that's fine because I get the paranoia in here, but the only provision for the NGAs I'd have would be that I think there should be a minimum limit of investment so that, for instance, Essendon don't just use the Tiwi Islands as a recruitment zone. I also believe that they should be subject to the same points system as our Academy kids I actually think the NGAs have great potential to improve the game - one of the things we do not really grasp here in Sydney is what a elitist sport the game is in the traditional states. Go through any list and the vast majority of lists , waaaay out of proportion to the general population, are white middle class highly expensively privately educated kids. And when you look at who is actually running the game it becomes ridiculous.

My point is that the AFL is in desperate need of some diversity and to me the NGAs are a good vehicle to provide it. And those of you on here that resent them because a Victorian club can benefit from them is really just as narrow minded as the muppets down there that want to our Academy torn down the moment they produce a decent player.

Finally I don't think any of the NGAs have anywhere near the potential of our Academy zone.

[Meg]

Just a minute MP, I for one am not opposed to the NGAs in principle, provided they do increase AFL engagement and develop some young kids who would otherwise not have taken up Aussie Rules. And to achieve those aims I accept some of the players coming through the NGAs probably would not need NGA support (or priority picks) to get drafted (just as with the Swans Academy). (I suspect however the looseness of the eligibility conditions will mean that there might be a predominance of boys who didn't need the NGAs who will get drafted - Boddo is the one with knowledge in this area - but we will see.)

What I resent are the never-ending attacks on the Swans Academy from people who never recognise any of your excellent points in support of academies. And I am sure those same people will jubilantly claim and defend NGA priority picks when it is the clubs they support which benefit. Hypocrisy really annoys me.

Ps: there is an NGA thread we should resurrect if others want to continue this discussion as it is off the topic for which this thread was created.

[Boddo]

Just a minute MP, I for one am not opposed to the NGAs in principle, provided they do increase AFL engagement and develop some young kids who would otherwise not have taken up Aussie Rules. And to achieve those aims I accept some of the players coming through the NGAs probably would not need NGA support (or priority picks) to get drafted (just as with the Swans Academy). (I suspect however the looseness of the eligibility conditions will mean that there might be a predominance of boys who didn't need the NGAs who will get drafted - Boddo is the one with knowledge in this area - but we will see.)

What I resent are the never-ending attacks on the Swans Academy from people who never recognise any of your excellent points in support of academies. And I am sure those same people will jubilantly claim and defend NGA priority picks when it is the clubs they support which benefit. Hypocrisy really annoys me.

Ps: there is an NGA thread we should resurrect if others want to continue this discussion as it is off the topic for which this thread was created.

I don't want to keep repeating myself so yes I agree re-open that thread.

I actually think we'll end up with full academies with drafting eventually. Academies provide a lot better grounding for young players to be given the chance to be drafted. The eagles have already pushed earlier in the year to expand their academy for their zoned area to take in all indigenous kids not just for remote areas. Freo already have a young player who was under 16 all Australian in 2016. Their zoned indigenous areas are an untapped gold mine in WA.

NGA uncovering the next big thing - fremantlefc.com.au


West Coast Eagles push for access to academy recruits

Of course bomber supporters are going to not argue about academies as the Tiwi islands have a very rich history of producing norm smith medalists.

The big issue for me comes from one rule for one but not for others. E.g Shepparton is classed as a "remote" area. My a$$ it's a remote area,Also a limit to first round depending on ladder position but not for F/S or NGA's etc
There's more but I suggest read that thread on NGA's.

And lastly it's easy to allow clubs via academies to pick up players and develop that would have a pathway/background to get drafted anyway, players like Thomas, Blakey & Penrith. When these kids are signed to the academy you have stringent guidelines that are FOLLOWED, that's for you Eddie, that if it is determined that their is already a pathway or that he/she most likely would have played footy anyway you take away the 20% discount when matching a bid. So for example Blakey/Thomas/Penrith would get no discount as they would most likely have followed a footballing path but the academy more than likely has helped Heeney/Jiath (Hawthorn academy)as they wouldn't have come from a non footy background or an area with a lower standard pathway. This would have been the way I'd go in the changes to GWS academy as it continues the excellent development they have put in. Not rip apart a good system, go look at what was drafted recently, not decades ago cause people will point out players like Crawford who was drafted in the 90's, before their academy came in.

A lot of the issues can be fixed very easily but I'm not holding my breat. Christ we don't even get an even draw so I don't expect any change apart from winding back of the big bad northern academies from Melbourne clubs via their media mouthpieces, that's for you Eddie, Jason, Luke & David.

[707]

I'm waiting to see the reaction if Nick Blakey chooses us next year, David King will go mental!

[Mug Punter]

I'm waiting to see the reaction if Nick Blakey chooses us next year, David King will go mental!

Who cares of he does, he can piddle in the wing for all I care.

Fact is Nick Blakey has a choice, he can choose North if he wants to, in fact he still may. The Academy system does not prevent him selecting North. The idea that a kid who has spent his entire life in Sydney in the Swans Academy with his father as a Swans coach can't select the Swans in good faith is crazy and I'd hope Healy would for once take a stand on OTC and stand up to him when he takes his cheapshots.

And North really should have better things to worry about then Nick Blakey. Their list is appalling and they cannot get near a target no matter how much cash they throw around. I actually wonder if they could have a nibble to Tippett given how much money they have. It's hard to see them going anywhere but down the ladder next season, perhaps all the way

[Mug Punter]

Who cares of he does, he can piddle in the wind for all I care.

Fact is Nick Blakey has a choice, he can choose North if he wants to, in fact he still may. The Academy system does not prevent him selecting North. The idea that a kid who has spent his entire life in Sydney in the Swans Academy with his father as a Swans coach can't select the Swans in good faith is crazy and I'd hope Healy would for once take a stand on OTC and stand up to him when he takes his cheapshots.

And North really should have better things to worry about then Nick Blakey. Their list is appalling and they cannot get near a target no matter how much cash they throw around. I actually wonder if they could have a nibble to Tippett given how much money they have. It's hard to see them going anywhere but down the ladder next season, perhaps all the way

Not on the wing

[S.S. Bleeder]

I put this link in the trading/list/drafting thread but I'll add it here

https://m.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFutureStarsTV%2Fvideos%2F1840130602670850%2F&show_text=0&width=560

They had Rayner at pick 20.

The top 20 as Future Stars put it:

1. Noah Anderson (Oakleigh)
2. Emerson Jeka (Western Jets)
3. Matthew Rowell (Oakleigh)
4. Hayden Young (Dandenong)
5. Deven Robertson (Perth)
6. Jack Mahony (Sandringham)
7. Kysaihah Pickett (WWT Eagles)
8. Liam Delahuntly (Coolamon)
9. Jamieson Rossiter (Eastern Ranges)
10. Luke Jackson (East Fremantle)
11. Cameron Taheny (Norwood)
12. Sam Flanders (Gippsland)
13. Karl Finlay (Norwood)
14. Mitch Fitzpatrick (GC Academy)
15. Anthony Davis (Claremont)
16. Dylan Stephens (Norwood)
17. Caleb Serong (Gippsland)
18. Jared Dakin (Launcestin)
19. Dylan Williams (Oakleigh)
20. Josh Rayner (Willougbly)

Unsure who else is an academy as information about NGA's is hard to find

What Sam Flanders would look like if he came to Sydney.1t76HWV.jpg

[Mug Punter]

What Sam Flanders would look like if he came to Sydney.[ATTACH=CONFIG]2063[/ATTACH]

Very good SSB, and he can line up alongside Big Bird if we draft Joel Garner this year. I soooo much want to be able to yell "Go Big Bird" at the SCG

[Pmcc2911]

Blakley has been injured a lot of this year with a dodgy back. He does seem a little fragile.
With regards to Rayner he has the goods and he is a well grounded young man as well. His Dad is 6'6" plus so Josh has plenty of growing to do.

[Boddo]

Very good SSB, and he can line up alongside Big Bird if we draft Joel Garner this year. I soooo much want to be able to yell "Go Big Bird" at the SCG

Joel's brother Todd is eligible for Hawthorn 2019

Hawks primed to land multicultural forward - M.afl.com.au

Joel was eligible but didn't want to be part of an academy.

[Boddo]

Blakley has been injured a lot of this year with a dodgy back. He does seem a little fragile.
With regards to Rayner he has the goods and he is a well grounded young man as well. His Dad is 6'6" plus so Josh has plenty of growing to do.

Mills missed virtually a whole year in his draft year due to injury. So it's more management for Nic I'd say.

Josh could very easily slide n not even get drafted but on the other hand could bolt n go top 5. There's a long way to go.

[S.S. Bleeder]

Joel's brother Todd is eligible for Hawthorn 2019

Hawks primed to land multicultural forward - M.afl.com.au

Joel was eligible but didn't want to be part of an academy.

There is every chance that in a couple of years, we'll be the team that is being disadvantaged by the academy systems. It will be interesting to see the outrage for the Melbourne clubs and supporters if this happens.

[Mug Punter]

There is every chance that in a couple of years, we'll be the team that is being disadvantaged by the academy systems. It will be interesting to see the outrage for the Melbourne clubs and supporters if this happens.

I doubt very much whether the other clubs will have more of an advantage in Victoria but I could very well see it with the WA clubs and their indigenous talent, but I actually think that is a good thing as homesickness is such an issue for those kids and them being able to stay near their families will hopefully make the transition easier for indigenous kids.

Overall I'm happy to have the NGAs have a few wins to secure the future of our academy, I think the ability to build a homegrown list is that important for us to sustain our success. As long as we can get that then the benefits for other clubs is academic for us.

Of course there is the bigger issue that the academies also address. Not saying the whining of the Victorian clubs doesn't grind my gears but if the NGAs help the development programmes and take the heat off us then I'll cop them.

[liz]

I think the concept of the NGAs is mostly fine but I do hope the AFL applies eligibility criteria regarding host clubs' involvement in the players' development in a consistent fashion to that applied to the northern states' academies. Last year, for example, Todd Marshall was ruled to be ineligible to be nominated by the Giants as an academy player because it was adjudged that the Giants hadn't been sufficiently involved in his development. At the same time, the AFL made it clear to the northern clubs that they had to be able to produce documentation showing the player's development programme and the applicable academy's involvement in his development.

The NGAs need to be genuinely enhancing the developmental prospects of the players they have access to, not just going through the motions and cherry-picking players as they reach draft age. It's for that reason I'm slightly dubious about the inclusion of indigenous players from the major metropolitan areas of SA, WA and Victoria. There aren't the same cultural barriers to these boys taking up football that may apply to multi-cultural players, and they already have access to the same development infrastructure that non-indigenous or multicultural players have.

Remote areas are a different matter, because they don't have access to the same level of developmental infrastructure. That's the primary justification for the northern academies, IMO. However, I think all kids in remote areas should be eligible to participate in schemes that genuinely add to the infrastructure, not just those of indigenous or multicultural heritages.

[Mug Punter]

I think the concept of the NGAs is mostly fine but I do hope the AFL applies eligibility criteria regarding host clubs' involvement in the players' development in a consistent fashion to that applied to the northern states' academies. Last year, for example, Todd Marshall was ruled to be ineligible to be nominated by the Giants as an academy player because it was adjudged that the Giants hadn't been sufficiently involved in his development. At the same time, the AFL made it clear to the northern clubs that they had to be able to produce documentation showing the player's development programme and the applicable academy's involvement in his development.

The NGAs need to be genuinely enhancing the developmental prospects of the players they have access to, not just going through the motions and cherry-picking players as they reach draft age. It's for that reason I'm slightly dubious about the inclusion of indigenous players from the major metropolitan areas of SA, WA and Victoria. There aren't the same cultural barriers to these boys taking up football that may apply to multi-cultural players, and they already have access to the same development infrastructure that non-indigenous or multicultural players have.

Remote areas are a different matter, because they don't have access to the same level of developmental infrastructure. That's the primary justification for the northern academies, IMO. However, I think all kids in remote areas should be eligible to participate in schemes that genuinely add to the infrastructure, not just those of indigenous or multicultural heritages.

+1

The indigenous kids from metro areas will be a contentious one but I essentially support the NGAs.

Apart from the indigenous content the game is extremely mono-cultural. I'd love to see each team having a couple of African players not to mention the virtual complete lack of Asian representation.

I just hope that the AFL ensures that any kids that are recruited have had sufficient investment from the clubs in question.

On a practical level I think the NGAs will find that developing AFL level talent when you're up against the established TAC Cup/elite Private School pathways is bloody hard work, as we have found out here in Sydney