2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

Some of the posts on this page illustrate how closely related are the topics of game plans and list management. Posts about one subject seem to flow into the other, so even if we had separate threads, we would probably then end up with 2 threads where both subjects are discussed. It's easy to see that if someone suggests that we have a 'run and gun' offense, then someone else will bring up what kind of players we need to fit that game plan. If RWO members tend to combine the subject matter then we probably should just let it flow that way rather than try to artificially separate these subjects. We often get people posting the same thing to 2 different threads when we have 2 active threads which are closely related.

[wolftone57]

As I asked many times last year, are we playing 2 ruckmen or playing a three tall forward line. Horse loves to play Naismith, Buddy, Reid and Tippett/Sinclair as it provides a lot of flexibility
- 3 tall marking forwards to expose small defensive setup
- allows Buddy to roam up ground whilst still maintaining marking options up forward.
- ability to move Reid back to defense for last 5min of each qtr or when required whilst still maintaining marking options up forward
- provide relief for primary ruckmen.

So its not so much dropping the 2nd ruckman, it is dropping the 3rd tall forward and what impact this has on our game plan and structures.

I've never liked the 3 tall forward line option. Though last year i was prepared to give it a chance. But it just doesn't work for us. Nor Adelaide for that matter. And I think their 3 talls are better than ours as a combined unit. I'm back to a more balanced structure. If your worried about your defence, then play defenders. If your primary ruckman isn't fit enough to get through 4 qtrs, play someone who is.

For me Naismith/Tippet/Sinclair/Cameron are fighting for the primary ruck role. The rest are back-ups.

A forward line of Buddy, Reid, Rohan, Hayward, Papley and resting midfielder provides us with much more balance and versatility.

The other thing is Cameron is a very good drop back and intercept player. He played like that in the reserves taking some super grabs and setting up run out of defence.

[dimelb]

Some of the posts on this page illustrate how closely related are the topics of game plans and list management. Posts about one subject seem to flow into the other, so even if we had separate threads, we would probably then end up with 2 threads where both subjects are discussed. It's easy to see that if someone suggests that we have a 'run and gun' offense, then someone else will bring up what kind of players we need to fit that game plan. If RWO members tend to combine the subject matter then we probably should just let it flow that way rather than try to artificially separate these subjects. We often get people posting the same thing to 2 different threads when we have 2 active threads which are closely related.

I take your point. Maybe coaching is something the match day thread might encourage - it tends to do that anyway!

[Flying South]

Agree with Ludwig.

[707]

What will you do in this scenario - all ruckmen are injury free, the new coaching panel decides to play one specialist ruckman (say Naismith) and use Towers as a chop out, talls in the new more mobile forward line are Reid & Buddy.

Place Tippett, Sinclair, Cameron & Armartey into positions in the NEAFL side.

[barry]

If all ruckmen are fit, and towers was playing 2nd ruck, then means or ruckman based recruiting over the last few years has been a costly mistake.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Only if fit
We all know talls break down regularly
Hence the plan b,c,d

- - - Updated - - -

Towers Leaps 85 plus from memory

That counters a Ruck who might leap 50cm max unless nic nat

[bloodspirit]

If all ruckmen are fit, and towers was playing 2nd ruck, then means or ruckman based recruiting over the last few years has been a costly mistake.

I don't think there is a problem having four rucks (as we did this year) but I agree having four quality rucks is overinvestment if we are only going to play one in our best 22. If we are playing two rucks, then it's fine.

Now we have recruited Amartey too, although not clear whether he should be counted as a ruckman. At least he is an inexpensive rookie project. Maybe he could turn into a tall utility who is used as back-up ruckman.

[bloodspirit]

Afl.com.au has posted the 2018 free agency list: Bumper free agency crop looming in 2018 - AFL.com.au.

Adelaide
Richard Douglas
David Mackay
Andy Otten
Rory Sloane
Brodie Smith
Brisbane Lions
Rohan Bewick
Ryan Lester@
Carlton
Marc Murphy
Kade Simpson@
Collingwood
Jarryd Blair
Alex Fasolo
Tyson Goldsack
Ben Reid
Josh Thomas
Essendon
Tom Bellchambers@
Fremantle
Hayden Ballantyne
Michael Johnson
David Mundy
Aaron Sandilands@
Geelong
Cameron Guthrie
George Horlin-Smith@
Gold Coast
Jarrod Harbrow
Tom Lynch
Tom Nicholls@
Hawthorn
Shaun Burgoyne
Taylor Duryea
Paul Puopolo
Ryan Schoenmakers
Brendan Whitecross
Melbourne
Neville Jetta
Tom McDonald
North Melbourne
Shaun Atley
Scott Thompson
Sam Wright@@
Port Adelaide
Justin Westhoff@
Richmond
Reece Conca
Ben Griffiths
Shaun Grigg
Dylan Grimes
Bachar Houli@
St Kilda
Sam Gilbert@@
Sydney
Heath Grundy
Jarrad McVeigh
Nick Smith@
West Coast
Andrew Gaff
Shannon Hurn
Mark LeCras
Scott Lycett
Eric Mackenzie
Jeremy McGovern
Western Bulldogs
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Liberatore
Dale Morris
Jordan Roughead
Mitch Wallis

Apart from Tom Lynch, who I assume is out of our league (he might be attracted by our track record of success) I can't see many potential targets. I see our list as being fairly well balanced and that we don't have a lot of particular needs. Possibly Tom McDonald, if AJ and Maibaum don't look like they can be best 22, although it's hard to see him leaving Melbourne (the city, if not the club) with his brother there and I'm sure they will be keen to retain him. Our history is more trading for undervalued players who either offer depth or who we think can play a role for us or who may be valued but are not getting opportunities at their current club. The obvious exception is Franklin but that doesn't provide a lot of guidance; and given he is currently sucking up a huge slice of the salary cap we are not yet in a position to do that again anyway.

[jren]

Ben Reid might be of interest as a Grundy replacement,whilst Luke Dahlhaus would offer pace and line breaking options in the midfield.

[Ludwig]

As long as Tippett and Sinclair remain on our books their million dollar salary will effectively preclude us from being serious players in the free agency market. So it's hardly worth thinking about any big name free agents for the next 3 years, unless we can offload one or two of our ruckmen.

We should do well enough with our current group of young key defenders, so Ben Reid would be an expensive luxury even if we had the cap space to afford him, assuming he was willing to leave Collingwood.

Other than salary cap constraints, the fact that we've been able to add so many good players to our list through recent drafts has made the need to trade in players unnecessary.

[707]

Agree Ludwig, Champion Data have rated our list for 2018 as the best in the comp. Unlike previous seasons, we now have useful depth across almost all positions and whilst they are untried, I'm very happy with our latest recruits.

We don't need a FA to cover holes or to increase depth. If we could afford one, we'd only grab someone who was a significant upgrade on the player they'd displace and I don't see too many of those on the AFL's FA list who would be both affordable and likely to leave their current club.

I'm looking forward to Hayward, Florent, Dawson etc displacing players who have lesser ceilings currently getting senior games and I think this year might see some changes in who is best 22. Exciting times ahead IMO.

[dejavoodoo44]

Just had a look at the AFL's, Who's The Most Promising Under 23 At Your Club survey. For us the three players mentioned were Heeney 58%, Florent 9% and Hayward 7% of the vote. Which surprised me a bit. While I would've voted for Heeney, Mills would've been my second pick, with a toss up between Hayward and Papley for number three.

[707]

Shows how little general footy followers know about other teams lists. I always buy the AFL Prospectus each January, it's a great read during the off season and a valuable reference point there after and updates your knowledge of other teams, but then again I am a stats kinda guy :-)

So other supporters know Heeney, probably because he's blonde and was the target of the Eddie anti academy campaign when we got him cheap.

I think we've got a number of highly promising U23's, the types that could become guns, the three mentioned plus Mills and don't under estimate Papley, does very clever things in the midfield as well as forward. Plus there's Dawson!

[Auntie.Gerald]

Yeah it?s interesting re Mills

A fair few friends that played afl and watch it a lot but support other teams don?t rate Mills

They remember him for his mistakes and sometimes easy ones and his slow flat footed turn and chase that he sometimes stands out for in games

They don?t him remember obviously for his enourmous courage floating back with the ball and his strong marking and spoils.........and his generally much improved kicking hitting targets in space on the advantage side of the turn and go

I also think he is talking much more and directing in 2017 which is vital as a defender with time and space in front of u to guide ur runners / wingers etc

I still think he has huge potential as loose HBF / Midfielder. I would give him a 7/10 so far for his transition at such a young age and to change roles immediately first year of Snrs

It is a massive challenge to go from the midfield to being a very good defender. Especially when leg speed is not ur strength

Mills still reminds me of a Luke Hodge style role for the Swans and I suspect he may really progress into owning his expected job in 2018