Injuries - Naismith ACL

[goswannies]

I think the prospect of Amarty playing any senior footy this year is very slim. As far I as I have seen (admittedly not that many sessions) he's not been training at all with the main group. I'm not sure I've even seen him doing much running.

He's very much undersized to be a full time ruckman at AFL level too. He's listed at just 196 cm. So he'll need to be strong, fit and athletic to compete against the other competition ruckmen. He's going to need a fair bit of time in the NEAFL to develop.

196cm and 88kg. He would be rag-dolled

[swansrob]

Dang.
Bring back tipoff.

Given Tippett retired after the final list lodgement, could he not make a comeback as he's still technically listed?

[wolftone57]

196cm and 88kg. He would be rag-dolled

Aliir is 196cm and I'm sure Amarty has put on some weight over the summer. That was last year's weight from his playing TAC. Naismith was supposed to be 200cm when we drafted him but he was in fact 205 or more. Look I said fast track not make him first ruck. He needs to be there in reserve just in case. Can't be a Mitchell or McLaren.

[bloodspirit]

It's not that dire yet. Sure we've lost our two best rucks in Tippo and Naismith but nobody could confidently predict whether they would both be in the best 22, and that was playing two rucks.

We've still got Sinclair and Cameron. Sinclair has a minor injury apparently and will hopefully be ready for Round 1 or else soon afterwards. He is an experienced ruck at AFL level and his best work has been more than handy. The problem is we haven't seen enough of it. Cameron is still a bit of an unknown. He was looking promising before getting injured midway through last year but we haven't seen enough of him in the ruck to fill us with confidence.

The fill-ins are Aliir and Towers. Aliir is injured for the time being and who knows what happens once he has recovered - might depend on how the team goes in the meantime. Towers is obviously not a main ruck option and will at best be able to assist Sinclair or Cameron as second ruck. Likewise, I'm not in favour in chucking Reid or Parker or whoever too much in the ruck. We've gotta show faith in the team and the rucks we've recruited.

Lastly we have Amartey - but he is a project and hasn't shown evidence of bursting out of the blocks in the pre-season so I think we are unlikely to see him this year unless we also lose Sinclair and Cameron. Still, if Aliir and Towers are tall enough, so is Amartey.

Overall the timing of these injuries isn't so bad. Before Tippo retired we had an excess of depth in this position at the same time playing two rucks was going out of vogue. We've still got some solid options and some less-tried back-ups and a lot of teams are putting less emphasis on winning ruck contests anyway. I'm surprised Ludwig hasn't described this as an irrelevant footnote to the season if not a hidden blessing.

[wolftone57]

I think the prospect of Amarty playing any senior footy this year is very slim. As far I as I have seen (admittedly not that many sessions) he's not been training at all with the main group. I'm not sure I've even seen him doing much running.

He's very much undersized to be a full time ruckman at AFL level too. He's listed at just 196 cm. So he'll need to be strong, fit and athletic to compete against the other competition ruckmen. He's going to need a fair bit of time in the NEAFL to develop.

that isn't what I'm talking about Liz. He is really athletic and plays ruck better than Goodes at a junior level. what I'm saying is we need him to be ready to go if our other ruckmen go down. Last year we had a situation that nearly every ruckman went down. Only sinclair survived and then after the others started to come back he got injured. We don't have Tippett this yaer and no Naismith really puts us up against it. Aliir is no first ruck and I'm not sure of him rucking at AFL level.

At least Amarty was taking first ruck duties in the TAC. If the other two go down, which they seem to do regularly, we might just need him so it would seem prudent to get him ready. I don't think you really appreciate the desperation here. Not one ruckman short but two due to Tip retiring and the other two we have left are just plodders when it comes to ruck duties. We are dreadfully stretched. Not only that the two we have left are injury prone. the universe help us if either of them go down. If both of them do we only have Aliir of the experienced players left. That leaves Amarty who was drafted as a ruckman. By the way according to people who have seen training he has been doing light work but spending more time in the gym. I'd say they are trying to bulk him up a bit.

If this was an ordinary season Joel Amarty's name would and should not even be mentioned except when talking about him making his NEAFL debut. But I'm here to tell you that if the other two go down they will start looking to fast track his progress.

[liz]

Aliir is 196cm and I'm sure Amarty has put on some weight over the summer. That was last year's weight from his playing TAC. Naismith was supposed to be 200cm when we drafted him but he was in fact 205 or more. Look I said fast track not make him first ruck. He needs to be there in reserve just in case. Can't be a Mitchell or McLaren.

Aliir might be 196cm but he's a full five years older than Amarty and has been in the system for more than four years. He's fitter, stronger and more experienced. Even he is a doubtful ruck prospect but there's a huge gulf between his capabilities - for this season - and those of Amarty. I think it's folly to think Amarty is going to come in and play in the ruck for the senior team in 2018.

[lwjoyner]

Why do we get ruckmen with injury problems. Tippert was always injured and could not put a string ogf games together. Naismith its the same always one or two in then out injured. Maybe we need to convince tippert to unretire

[stevoswan]

I think we have to fast track young Amarty. We can't play a whole season with two recognised rucks. Aliir after all is not a recognised ruckman. Amarty on the other hand has played all his junior footy in the ruck. Aliir only played there in Qld. When he went to WA they played him back. Sure use Allir and towers as the second ruck option but we need to make sure we have three first ruck options up our sleeve with our injury prone rucks.

That's what I thought as soon as I heard about Naismith. Amarty's highlights reel reveals an excellent tap ruckman who positions himself well and puts the ball down midfielders throats nearly very time......yes, it is time to fast track him.

[Foreign Legion]

Bloody hell I was worried about this in the thread V Brisbane Lions when Sinclair got injured - this is terrible news. Will need Aliir to recover quickly. Trying to think of other options besides Sam Reid - is Toby Pink any chance of elevation? May not be tall enough but he is an option I guess. I just hope Cameron steps up - he has to take his chance.

[Ludwig]

I'm surprised Ludwig hasn't described this as an irrelevant footnote to the season if not a hidden blessing.

We should be a more successful team with Aliir and Towers as our ruck combo. It's the way of the future and it really suits the style of play we are heading towards. Injury and a generally poor quality ruck division have forced our hand, but it could all be for the best.

I have commented on the matter, but only briefly. There's an extensive analysis which I could provide, but I won't do it all in one go, to spare RWO members the pain.

Most of us have been following the game for quite some time and have become fixated with traditional roles and game styles from a game much steeped in history. But things are changing. In my own team analysis I no longer use the traditional 6 x 3 matrix of player positions, because the game is no longer played that way.

Forget about the traditional image of a ruckman: The big guy who tries to out-muscle another big guy to get a touch to the advantage of another member of the team.

This part of the game is about stoppage strategy and may involve any number combinations of player types and tactics, some with big traditional type ruckmen, some without.

At present we do not have a good option that involves a big man beating another big man at stoppages, so we just do something else. We should play the stoppages defensively, trying for a loose ball situation. If we don't win the first loose ball situation, we should be setup in a position behind the ball to get a turnover from a forced kick from the opposition.

We should also try to keep the ball in play, avoiding stoppages and taking advantage of having an extra mobile player in lieu of the opposition typically immobile ruckman. If you look at our recent drafts of players like Hayward, Florent, Ling and Stoddart, it is quite evident that we are quickly evolving in this direction. We are not the stoppage team that benefited from a powerful ruckman and players like Kirk, Bolton and ROK.

Some may not see any analogy between basketball and Aussie Rules, but I see many similarities in game strategy. In NBA basketball the big powerful centre is going out of style, unless he is mobile and can shoot from the outside. The game has evolved from a low scoring period to more speed, outside shooting and more scoring. There are ever more taller players with great mobility and agility, like our own Australian Ben Simmons, who plays point guard at nearly 7 feet tall and moves like a gazelle. In AFL we are seeing a trend to taller midfielders as well as more mobile tall forwards and backmen.

The future of the game is with speed, quick movement and skills across the ground. The loss of Tippett and Naismith may seem unfortunate, but has given us a hard push in the right direction. Hopefully the coaching staff see the opportunity and go with it and not try to force an inferior player to fit the mould of a traditional position.

Aliir looks to be in training without any support for the ankle, so he should be okay to go round 1. I'd be happy to give Cameron a go and see if he's up to it. Toby Pink has played in the ruck and is another option although he hasn't shown enough so far to say he's a good enough footballer and we haven't seen him in pre-season games so far. In any case, I believe there can be an effective strategy even if every hitout is lost to advantage.

[Ludwig]

Carrying ruckmen is a waste list space. They are usually out injured anyway. It looks as though Natanui will be out for round 1 as well as Vardy, yet again. Even Max Gawn has only managed to play 74 games in 8 seasons and the Demons actually played their best football when Pederson was their number 1 ruckman. Richmond won the premiership with 1 ordinary and over-hyped ruckman, mainly because no one bothered defending him, and Shaun Grigg taking plenty of the stoppages. The evidence regarding the ruckman is there for all to see, unless you keep your eyes closed.

[Mel_C]

When I heard the news the first thing I thought of was Ludwig. What have you been up to over the summer?? First Tippett and now Naismith. ????

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[wolftone57]

Aliir might be 196cm but he's a full five years older than Amarty and has been in the system for more than four years. He's fitter, stronger and more experienced. Even he is a doubtful ruck prospect but there's a huge gulf between his capabilities - for this season - and those of Amarty. I think it's folly to think Amarty is going to come in and play in the ruck for the senior team in 2018.

I think you are reading this totally wrong. Please note;

If this was an ordinary season Joel Amarty's name would and should not even be mentioned except when talking about him making his NEAFL debut. But I'm here to tell you that if the other two go down they will start looking to fast track his progress.


then;
If both of them do we only have Aliir of the experienced players left. That leaves Amarty who was drafted as a ruckman. By the way according to people who have seen training he has been doing light work but spending more time in the gym. I'd say they are trying to bulk him up a bit.

What I'm saying is he should be ready in case of an emergency. After all the last ruckman standing last week was Cameron. In fact Aliir went down too.

I'm not saying in normal circumstances Amarty would play seniors. I'm saying if worst comes to worst he should be ready. By the way I've seen a lot of reserves and Aliir is not very good in the ruck.

[Foreign Legion]

Carrying ruckmen is a waste list space. They are usually out injured anyway. It looks as though Natanui will be out for round 1 as well as Vardy, yet again. Even Max Gawn has only managed to play 74 games in 8 seasons and the Demons actually played their best football when Pederson was their number 1 ruckman. Richmond won the premiership with 1 ordinary and over-hyped ruckman, mainly because no one bothered defending him, and Shaun Grigg taking plenty of the stoppages. The evidence regarding the ruckman is there for all to see, unless you keep your eyes closed.

Well argued Ludwig - I am *almost* convinced - time will tell I guess. Imagine if Aliir can stay fit and use the ball like he did in his breakout season - he could be a real weapon in the square or around the stoppages

[stellation]

My analysis of this situation is: this isn't good.