#AFL Rd 21 Swans v Melbourne, MCG, Sun 12 Aug 3:20pm @SydneySwans #AFLDeesSwans

[liz]

Do you think AJ’s knees aren’t as structurally sound and built for footy as other players, or is he just ridiculously unlucky? I know today was an unfortunate injury (he clipped a Melbourne players boot with his left foot and redirected his weight midair onto his right placing it in an awkward position), but is he just prone to these sorts of ligament issues?

Whatever the case, I am absolutely gutted for him. I feel sick about it.

GoSwannies is probably better placed to comment, but I once read that the most significant indicator of the likelihood of a player doing a knee is whether he has previously done one. And that doesn't apply just to reinjuring the bad knee, but a rupture to either of the two knees. We see an awful lot of players do multiple knees in their careers. It would be interesting to see some stats of the number of players who've done one knee vs the number who've had multiple ACL injuries.

I think I also read that a second pretty important indicator is whether a close relative has previously done a knee. Most here will remember Kristen Thornton, who was shaping to be a handy player for us about a decade ago but suffered an ACL and then a series of (probably related) hamstring injuries. His older brother, who played for Freo (I think) also ruptured an ACL, and so did his twin (who played at WAFL level).

[Hotpotato]

They will all be ( both teams ) really knackered after that game. It was hard .

[aguy]

Do you think AJ’s knees aren’t as structurally sound and built for footy as other players, or is he just ridiculously unlucky? I know today was an unfortunate injury (he clipped a Melbourne players boot with his left foot and redirected his weight midair onto his right placing it in an awkward position), but is he just prone to these sorts of ligament issues?

Whatever the case, I am absolutely gutted for him. I feel sick about it.

It’s absolute devrstated and I was devestated to the point of numbness when it happened.

From a medical point of view the truth is that ACL rupture is an injury that seems to have a genetic predisposition. We know that if you rupture one ACL in elite sport then you are more likely to both rerupture the same side but also more likely to rupture the OTHER side than the average for elite sportspeople. That would seem to indicate that someone who ruptures their ACL is Likley to have “weaker” ACL’s than other people. So In a way I’m not surprised that this has happened but I’m devestated nonetheless. A comparison would be Jon Patton who has done his other side I believe this year ( now 3 In total). Part of me wonders if it is sad fact that these people’s bodies just aren’t up to the rigours of AFL football as sad as it is. Very hard to find out after working so hard to get to senior level.

As I said I’m gutted for AJ and can’t even imagine what he is feeling

[AB Swannie]

For some reason, AJ's injury made me think a bit more about Sam Reid today. He is often criticised and maligned for being injured. Tippett copped it a lot too. I think some people must have a predisposition to injury whether that be ACLs or soft tissue. It must be so frustrating being one of these guys as you work so hard to get to where you know you can be only for it to be taken away from you time and again.

[Mel_C]

That was a fantastic win. Very emotional game. We really dug deep in that last quarter. Most of the players couldn't run but they just kept pressuring them.

The 2nd and 3rd quarters we ran and ran and ran, which is how we should be playing.

I don't think any player had a bad game.
- Hewett was good especially early.
- Kennedy is a beast.
- Have to give a lot of praise to Newman. He ran hard all game and read the ball well. Same with Cunningham.
- Sinclair was good around the ground and nullified Gawn's influence outside of the ruck contests.
- Heeney...what can I say about that last quarter? The crowd went nuts when he took that mark!

I'm so upset about AJ ????. As soon as he went to ground I knew he had done his knee. The entire crowd was hushed because they knew what had happened. We were all in disbelief. Credit to the Demon supporters for clapping him off. You could see at the end of the game how the players feel about AJ. Even from the stands you could see how emotional Newman was.

[Scottee]

That mark Heeney took with around about 2 mins to go, 1 on 1 with a high ball just near the defending goal square - we should make every defender watch that bit of play 100 times. Perfect positioning, eyes never left the footy, and outworked his opponent with ease. Was the mark of a very classy footballer the way he controlled, under such huge pressure, such a critical passage of play.

Mark of the year!

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[Scottee]

I reckon that must have been the hardest game of his career with only 2 on the bench.

By the way. How good is Dawson going?

He has just played his 3rd game of the year and his 4th of his career. Looks at home in the midfield and forward half. Can kick like a bullet and good in the contest.

I’m very pleased with his progress.

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[Industrial Fan]

Is it just me that finds AA mystifying?

From 2016 PF through till mid way through this season it wasn’t clear he would stay on our list.

He has had an exceptional month or so of footy and looks one of the best defenders in the comp.

What went wrong in 2017?

[Hotpotato]

Not sure , Ludwig or Liz will give you coherent answers , just relieved he’s resigned , fab athlete and natural ability for the game.

So calm and silky with his handballs and has also developed a penetrating kick as well as the dinks.

[MattW]

Hannas had the Zac Jones role
1 good thing, 3 bad, frees against the play and 4 direct turnovers for goals..... other than that pretty good

Sure he made mistakes, but surprised Hanners is copping any criticism after that one. Heart and soul performance.

- - - Updated - - -

His last quarter was enormous (let alone that grab!!!) How we need about 5 of him.... a couple for the forward line, a couple for midfield and one in the backline please.

A call out to George Hewett - I thought he was enormous for us today - a quality game from him.

Agreed, George played a tough game. Backed up a good one last week, too.

[troyjones2525]

Don't think it has been mentioned in this thread yet but the huge pack mark late in the last qtr that McCartin took in the backline after Dan Hannebery gave away that free kick after the Melbourne goal was sensational. He's going to be a good one! Just hope he works hard with plugger in the pre season on his set shot goal kicking!

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[goswannies]

GoSwannies is probably better placed to comment, but I once read that the most significant indicator of the likelihood of a player doing a knee is whether he has previously done one. And that doesn't apply just to reinjuring the bad knee, but a rupture to either of the two knees. We see an awful lot of players do multiple knees in their careers. It would be interesting to see some stats of the number of players who've done one knee vs the number who've had multiple ACL injuries.

I think I also read that a second pretty important indicator is whether a close relative has previously done a knee. Most here will remember Kristen Thornton, who was shaping to be a handy player for us about a decade ago but suffered an ACL and then a series of (probably related) hamstring injuries. His older brother, who played for Freo (I think) also ruptured an ACL, and so did his twin (who played at WAFL level).

Predisposition for ACL injury is incredibly multifactorial and complex. Previous injury is an easy one to single out as we can prospectively predict a subsequent injury knowing one has previously occurred. The incidence is higher for the same knee than the contralateral knee. If someone ruptures an ACL, we wait to see if the next one will occur.

However, there are many other factors such as the type of activity (eg AFL is bad because of game elements such as jumping and landing, lateral impact with low tackles, turning with a fixed foot - because of the stops/sprigs in boots; netball because of the sudden stop when taking a ball either from a pass or when jumping - ie you can’t run with the ball; basketball landing from jumping; skiiing having the ankle fixed to a long rigid ski exerts forces at the knee; baseball sliding into plates foot first when the plate is fixed into the ground); sporting surfaces etc

Then there are anatomical differences notch width between the femoral condyles, tibial plateau angle/slope, innate ligament laxity, ACL size, knee joint geometry, lower extremity alignment (which will result in different forces exerted on the ACL) body mass index (heavier = potentially more force on the ACL, and the distribution of mass with a higher center of gravity potentially predisposing greater ground reaction forces at the knee.

Gender (sorry girls - you’re statistically more at risk) and hormonal factors (which are related and the latter influences ligament laxity). Genetic. Proprioceptive compromise.

And, to be honest, this isn’t even remotely a comprehensive list.

And sometimes - although this won’t be reported in any scientific studies - just plain luck.

I did my first ACL playing football. My second one 12 months subsequently playing netball while in football pre-season. Same knee. 3rd one was my other knee 10 years later ... standing on a footpath when a car was travelling where it shouldn’t be. No amount of gender, hormones, BMI or the fact that I’d had two previous ACL recons on my right knee could have predicted that a would run me over on a footpath and tear my other ACL.

AJ’s are a little more unique than most cases, in that infections played a significant role in a number of his revisions. But Sunday’s injury did appear to be quite innocuous.

While I think he can potentially come back to try to salvage a career if he wants, statistically, he will probably be at higher risk of re-injuring both of his knees as a result of Sunday’s right knee injury. Also, given how much surgery AJ had had on his left knee and will likely now have on his right knee, the long-term repercussions of these with regards to likely degenerative changes to the articular cartilage would be concerning.

Taking all of the speculation, anatomy and physiology out of the equation, AJ has been an inspiration for what determination can achieve. If he chooses to go on, I applaud him and he will have my fondest wishes. But he is all of 26 years old and the knees he has now need to statistically last him another 50-60 years. There is a time when enough is enough. Sometimes the club determines it, sometimes it’s the player. I just hope that when it is his time, he goes on his terms and is at peace with his career. He has achieved more than many can even aspire to achieve in a game that he obviously loves. I hope that is enough for AJ, because his remarkable career and life have been an inspiration to me.

[Beerman]

His kicking for goal (bar the last miss) is pretty good. The kid has always been a favourite of many of the regular ressies watches - he seems to be taking his chance now. In a couple of seasons time he is going to be a very, very good afl player.

He's a long kick, and confident too. I noticed when Parker marked on 50 and was walking back to take his kick, Jordan made a little run around the back looking for the hand-off.

Newman played out of his skin today and the photo of him and AJ at the end of the game was heartbreaking. Amazing for him to play so well when he felt so bad. Papley was back to his best, Hewett played as well as I've seen him all year, particularly in the first quarter and I think Ronke was good as well, particularly in the first half.

I thought we would be smashed, but everyone lifted from the opening bounce. Epic win.

As for AJ - what can be said? It is a terrible, terrible thing. It's not just that he's out of the game for a while, the fact that it was so innocuous an action raises the question of whether his body is up to the game. The Swans would surely have to consider whether it's in his best interest to offer him a new playing contract. (Perhaps it's time for him to move into the coaching ranks). It all depends on the medical report of course but at this stage I'm more concerned about him being able to walk in 30 years than whether he plays again.

[Beerman]

Mark of the year!

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Anyone know what you win for Mark Of The Year? Just asking for a mate.

— Jake Lloyd (@J_Lloyd_10) August 12, 2018

[Matty10]

So, the crowd booed and jeered Buddy once again yesterday. The thing that I noticed in it more than anything else is the vitriol associated with it.

When Buddy was beaten for the ball during the last quarter (from a kick sent over the back to space), the crowd heckled Buddy and celebrated his loss rather than cheered their own player and his victory. Some people really like to bring others down - it is bizarre.