2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Auntie.Gerald]

bit of iron fist young warner !

[Auntie.Gerald]

well its all over bar the shouting

The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports

which 3 elite players would you have taken if they were available in the trade period and rebuild the team around

just for fun

no party poooooopers allowed

[bloodspirit]

From that list? Maybe the Bont, Grundy and Whitfield. Age is on their side in terms of building a team around them.

[wolftone57]

Interesting article about the draft: Inside the draft's first round: Twists, turns, bluffs and the big calls - AFL.com.au. Most relevantly for us, it suggests that we would have taken Lachie Ash with our first pick instead of Dyl Stephens if the Giants hadn't taken him first. Also says the Giants were ready to match, and would have matched, a bid for Green at pick 3 (despite having traded 3 first rounders to get their pick 4). Instead they would have traded down their pick 4 before matching. And if for any reason Jackson had not been available, Green was Melbourne's next preference.

The big nearly deal that also had a big impact on the first round was Adelaide nearly agreeing to trade back to Carlton's pick 9. They considered it because they wanted McAsey and hoped he would still be available at pick 9 but they didn't do it because if we had taken Young, Freo might have taken McAsey at pick 8. I don't know how solid the information is but it is interesting to get the window into what was happening behind the scenes.

Well that is interesting as Kinnear stated afterward that the Swans were always going to pick Stephens. They had decided Ash would not be there well before the draft day and we were only interested in Stephens as he fit our needs

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[liz]

well its all over bar the shouting

The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports

It's a bizarre list, and reminds me why I find it hard to take Champion Data's player rankings too seriously. I realise it's data driven, and some argue that makes it objective, but there is still a huge amount of subjectivity involved in deciding what weighting to put on the myriad of "footy acts". I reckon any data driven model still has to be subjected to a "does it make sense" test, albeit based on subjective assessments of what players bring.

The question of "elite" is vexatious because different people place emphasis on different aspects, but for me, no-one is elite until they have delivered over a period of time. That's partly because being consistently good is a key element of being elite for me - including the ability to play through injury (which all players have to do at some time over a stretch of a few seasons), and also demonstrating that you can evolve your game as opposition players get to know you and adopt measures to stop you doing what you do well. To that end, I really struggle with the idea that a first year player (Sydney Stack) is yet "elite".

I am also confused how Alex Rance isn't an elite key defender, but Majak Daw is - both missed almost the entire season last year, but Rance has been doing it for years and Daw only switched to defence in the last couple of seasons.

And Anthony McDonald-T is an elite "general forward" yet Charlie Cameron isn't?

And if the measure is about being one of the best in your position, does it really make sense that seven rucks are elite? Gawn and Grundy few would take issue with, but NicNat (with his injuries), Goldstein, Marshall, McEvoy and Ryder as well? Ryder might have been an elite ruckman some years ago but I find it hard to think of him as elite now. Marshall is in the same boat (nearly) as Stack - let him do it over seasons before labelling him elite.

Taylor Walker and Jeremy Finlayson are elite key forwards, but Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins aren't?

[Melbourne_Blood]

It's a bizarre list, and reminds me why I find it hard to take Champion Data's player rankings too seriously. I realise it's data driven, and some argue that makes it objective, but there is still a huge amount of subjectivity involved in deciding what weighting to put on the myriad of "footy acts". I reckon any data driven model still has to be subjected to a "does it make sense" test, albeit based on subjective assessments of what players bring.

The question of "elite" is vexatious because different people place emphasis on different aspects, but for me, no-one is elite until they have delivered over a period of time. That's partly because being consistently good is a key element of being elite for me - including the ability to play through injury (which all players have to do at some time over a stretch of a few seasons), and also demonstrating that you can evolve your game as opposition players get to know you and adopt measures to stop you doing what you do well. To that end, I really struggle with the idea that a first year player (Sydney Stack) is yet "elite".

I am also confused how Alex Rance isn't an elite key defender, but Majak Daw is - both missed almost the entire season last year, but Rance has been doing it for years and Daw only switched to defence in the last couple of seasons.

And Anthony McDonald-T is an elite "general forward" yet Charlie Cameron isn't?

And if the measure is about being one of the best in your position, does it really make sense that seven rucks are elite? Gawn and Grundy few would take issue with, but NicNat (with his injuries), Goldstein, Marshall, McEvoy and Ryder as well? Ryder might have been an elite ruckman some years ago but I find it hard to think of him as elite now. Marshall is in the same boat (nearly) as Stack - let him do it over seasons before labelling him elite.

Taylor Walker and Jeremy Finlayson are elite key forwards, but Josh Kennedy and Tom Hawkins aren't?

Great point, and thanks for saving me from reading the article. Obviously a waste of my time based on your assessment. Taylor walker elite ? Wow. Sydney stack too, pull the other one !


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[KTigers]

I think someone split a number of drinks into the Champion Data computer at the Xmas party last week to come up with that list.
Jeremy Finlayson! I like the bloke, but basically he's had two-thirds of one good year. Meanwhile, the "other Josh Kennedy", the
bearded one over in Perth has been a gun for the best part of a decade but isn't on the list. Mitch Robinson, Paddy Ryder, Majak Daw...
the Champion Data computer is drunk.

[SeanM]

Interesting article about the draft: Inside the draft's first round: Twists, turns, bluffs and the big calls - AFL.com.au. Most relevantly for us, it suggests that we would have taken Lachie Ash with our first pick instead of Dyl Stephens if the Giants hadn't taken him first. Also says the Giants were ready to match, and would have matched, a bid for Green at pick 3 (despite having traded 3 first rounders to get their pick 4). Instead they would have traded down their pick 4 before matching. And if for any reason Jackson had not been available, Green was Melbourne's next preference.

The big nearly deal that also had a big impact on the first round was Adelaide nearly agreeing to trade back to Carlton's pick 9. They considered it because they wanted McAsey and hoped he would still be available at pick 9 but they didn't do it because if we had taken Young, Freo might have taken McAsey at pick 8. I don't know how solid the information is but it is interesting to get the window into what was happening behind the scenes.

"The Blues used it on midfielder Sam Philp, who Sydney and North had interest in in the 20s."

I think we would not have predicted how the draft would play out. So probably had a list of players as possibilities for our later picks. I don't think we would have expected Gould would still be available at our second pick.

[AB Swannie]

"The Blues used it on midfielder Sam Philp, who Sydney and North had interest in in the 20s."

I think we would not have predicted how the draft would play out. So probably had a list of players as possibilities for our later picks. I don't think we would have expected Gould would still be available at our second pick.

I think the evidence is clear that the journos had no idea who the Swans were into. They all has us taking Flanders. None had us taking Gould. We give very little away that we don't want to. I'd say it was possible that we liked Philp at the right pick but only a select few people in our club actually know that for sure.

[Bloody Hell]

well its all over bar the shouting

The list of 51 elite players is out !!!

AFL 2019: Champion data elite players; Dusty Martin, Patrick Dangerfield; Buddy Franklin | Fox Sports

which 3 elite players would you have taken if they were available in the trade period and rebuild the team around

just for fun

no party poooooopers allowed

Sydney Stack?

[Boddo]

On Elijah. I’ve noticed the constant reports before being drafted of “off field issues”, “maybe not prepared for AFL, “has the talent but not commitment”.

I have a very close relative who has spoken to him and spent time with him n his friends several times. His only issues is he like to party n have a few drinks. Pretty much like most young adults his age.

Expect this “commitment, preparation, off field issues” to disappear in the right environment preparing to become a full time professional sportsman.

[bloodspirit]

On Elijah. I’ve noticed the constant reports before being drafted of “off field issues”, “maybe not prepared for AFL, “has the talent but not commitment”.

I have a very close relative who has spoken to him and spent time with him n his friends several times. His only issues is he like to party n have a few drinks. Pretty much like most young adults his age.

Expect this “commitment, preparation, off field issues” to disappear in the right environment preparing to become a full time professional sportsman.

Very encouraging. Thanks for sharing. Enjoying socialising and having a few drinks not any basis for writing a player off or even down in my book.

I can't help but think it must go further than that and relate to his discipline with training or something too. But does your relative say categorically that is not the case and he is super professional about that stuff?

[Boddo]

Very encouraging. Thanks for sharing. Enjoying socialising and having a few drinks not any basis for writing a player off or even down in my book.

I can't help but think it must go further than that and relate to his discipline with training or something too. But does your relative say categorically that is not the case and he is super professional about that stuff?

Missed the occasional training here or there. And like I said he enjoyed a house party. Sydney Stack was exactly the same but I’d say there was way way more issues with Sydney’s professionalism than Elijah’s.

Put him in the right environment and imo you’ll see massive upside to his game.

[stevoswan]

On Elijah. I’ve noticed the constant reports before being drafted of “off field issues”, “maybe not prepared for AFL, “has the talent but not commitment”.

I have a very close relative who has spoken to him and spent time with him n his friends several times. His only issues is he like to party n have a few drinks. Pretty much like most young adults his age.

Expect this “commitment, preparation, off field issues” to disappear in the right environment preparing to become a full time professional sportsman.

I think some footy journo's these days still fall into the trap of somewhat casually racially stereotyping our indigenous players, especially when 'party boy' rumours float around.

In the 70's and 80's, a lot of journo's talked about indigenous players "going walkabout" during games or in their careers generally, ie: lacking commitment. It was actually quite offensive and showed a lot of ignorance on their part as there wasn't the same league and public awareness back then that there is now, of the challenges the Indigenous lads face being away from country and family, so a lot of them back in the day were inconsistent and didn't last long, because they were battling homesickness and isolation.

It's different these days because there is a lot more understanding and a lot more is done to support not just all players but especially the Indigenous boys with the challenges they face being away from home in a new and pressurised environment. Plus a lot get to the league via scholarships at city schools and are used to a city sporting life by the time they are drafted.

I have seen Elijah speak and his attitude seems fine to me. Sure he's a bit laid back, maybe a little shy perhaps but like you, I expect him to thrive at the Swans and I have every confidence in him lighting it up onfield. As for the 'party boy' rumours, hey he's simply just a normal kid doing normal kid things. Nothing to see here....

[Boddo]

I think some footy journo's these days still fall into the trap of somewhat casually racially stereotyping our indigenous players, especially when 'party boy' rumours float around.

In the 70's and 80's, a lot of journo's talked about indigenous players "going walkabout" during games or in their careers generally, ie: lacking commitment. It was actually quite offensive and showed a lot of ignorance on their part as there wasn't the same league and public awareness back then that there is now, of the challenges the Indigenous lads face being away from country and family, so a lot of them back in the day were inconsistent and didn't last long, because they were battling homesickness and isolation.

It's different these days because there is a lot more understanding and a lot more is done to support not just all players but especially the Indigenous boys with the challenges they face being away from home in a new and pressurised environment. Plus a lot get to the league via scholarships at city schools and are used to a city sporting life by the time they are drafted.

I have seen Elijah speak and his attitude seems fine to me. Sure he's a bit laid back, maybe a little shy perhaps but like you, I expect him to thrive at the Swans and I have every confidence in him lighting it up onfield. As for the 'party boy' rumours, hey he's simply just a normal kid doing normal kid things. Nothing to see here....

A lot actually grew up in the city now. Whether that be Perth, Mandurah or Bunbury.

The biggest misconception is “making the big league” to earn the big bucks. Indigenous culture has you share your wealth around, whether that be a sport life or professional academic career. Perfect example is the great indigenous artist Albert Namatjira who died basically broke.

Albert Namatjira - Wikipedia

You play for the love of the sport and fun. It’s never about you earning big money for you.

You watch the boomerangs n you’ll see a talent laden side that looks like just about every player would get drafted but the majority don’t n imo it’s because being famous n earning the big bucks is not the number one priority in their life. It’s the love of sport. Fun n enjoyment. Which sadly is getting lost from the money driven AFL landscape.