#AFL Round 4 Swans vs Dees Thur 11-Apr at SCG #AFLSwansDees @sydneyswans

[Agent 86]

It's not a fact - yet.

I agree. He has already kicked a few amazing goals this year that no one else could come close to. He seems to be moving pretty well too. They all fell away last night, so attacking Lance is just churlish imho.

I thought our boys more than matched the very good midfield of Melbourne in the first half. We were wasteful in front of goal (and two goals we did get were from very soft - or non-existent -free kicks, while the Dees scored a few arsey ones to keep closer on the scoreboard than they should.

Spot on. Concerning that Papley, Ronke & Reid are regularly missing goals that should be gimmes.

We got a few soft ones earlier - but the Dees received some critical ones near goal later when we were struggling to hold on. They hurt more.

…I suspect part of the reason for the second half fade-out was fatigue, coming off a five day break.

Yeah, we looked cooked once Dees midfield found their mojo.

Just a thought, but the last 2 games we've come out with a more expansive mind-frame in the early part of the game & then each game has turned into a more contested/congested affair. Is this just the natural flow of the game, or has the directive come from the coaching box?

There will always be complaints about selection, it seems.

Yep. We've got some developing to do, & some of these kids will take some time (like a few years…). I've been concerned about Ollie for a while, but last night he was really impressive. Pity he faded – he looked exhausted – but he wasn't alone.

Pick and stick!

Heeney was another who was quietish in the second half…

Isaac is a star & when teams can hurt him, they will. I don't know what can be done, but he seems to fall off a bit when he gets smashed. So, he will get targeted as he can be so damaging. Perhaps we're missing a bit of mongrel to protect the kids?

I thought Aliir was one of our shining lights.

Yeah, i reckon it's time to loosen the reins. You can tell he's keen.

I thought Jack was really lively.

Good to see. You can tell that the team likes him out there. It's a pity we turned over so much ball or were slow to move it - but he made good when the chances came along.

Mills.

Not his best game. That is all.

Parker.

See above.

A few posters have bemoaned that "this is going to be a long year". That depends entirely on how you view this season. We've been utterly spoilt as Swans fans for more than a decade, expecting our team to qualify for the finals. I certainly hope the team has improvement in it this year but if we don't make the finals, it's not the end of the world. It's not like we have a team of ageing journeymen out there, performing poorly. Rather, we have a team with a lot of young and youngish players and I'm willing to be patient and enjoy watching them develop as the year goes on, even if the results aren't always as we'd like.

Yep. I said that. Couldn't sleep & that was a frustrating game to watch. It's hard to fathom how poor our skills were as the game wore on. Not that we'd ever resort to tanking, but I'll be surprised if we finish better than, say, 12th. We'll then see a few retirements, free up a bit of $alary, & hopefully a slightly easier draw.

[Markwebbos]

Sure, they dropped off in both ball winning and skills in the second half, but when they did have the ball, there were attempts at fast ball movement. It's just that the skills had come unstuck and so it was turned over too easily. But they were trying to take some risks and move the ball quickly. The best movement of the game (from the Swans) came in the final quarter and resulted in Jack's second goal.

I loved that ball movement. Coast to coast and Dees never looked like touching it

[Agent 86]

I don't necessarily agree with Merdo's post but there are others who will blindly defend our coaches regardless of what they do.

I think most of us were surprised that Mcierney (sp) was selected ahead of others that had performed at a higher level to earn their spot (i.e. COR and Rose). I don't think he's a bust by any stretch of the imagination, but he clearly isn't ready for AFL senior level and we effectively played one man down last night.

Not necessarily "regardless of what they do", but I think a coach whose team has not finished lower than 7th & made it to 3 grand finals is doing a lot more right than wrong. People on here are constantly bleating about the poor coaching – but I'm yet to see one of them come up with a viable alternative. So, who is this new coach that's gonna do so much more?

McInerney clearly has done a lot right in training to get a start, maybe he was overwhelmed? (not the first) – but COR and Rose have both had a few shots and have come up short as well. I'd like to see O'Riordan get more chances, & may have been a safer option than JIM (can i call him that?)… but what can you do? I'd like to see him get another crack but am expecting "omitted" to be next to his name next week.

[Ralph Dawg]

Those calling for widespread changes would make sense if we had troops demanding selection. Unfortunately all have reasons for reservations. Here's a list:
Rose, COR, Cameron: playing well in NEAFL but that competition is many levels below AFL
Clarke and Melican: Poor so far this year
Rowbottom, Foote, Stoddart: inexperienced
Fox: a bit of a list filler, certainly not going to make a huge difference
Ling and Menzel: come back trail from long term injuries
Theses guys are our next in line but could anyone be confident that they will do any better than the guys currently in the side? That said, Ronke has been poor, down on confidence and Sinclair could do with some help.

[Markwebbos]

Those calling for widespread changes are calling for more than just a different set of players being picked next week!

[Merdo5555]

There are some on here who will find fault in literally everything the coaches try. During the week people wanted some new young players selected, but when the coaches obliged, they made a blue by picking a guy not ready for a game (according to comments on here). Had they picked Rose, they'd have made a blue too.

In the first half, when we were played some good footy, Florent and Heeney were very good. Jones continued to be a prime mover in the middle. Dawson played probably his best half of senior footy so far. Aliir was one of our best (all game, for me at least).

Papley was just so-so yesterday, but last week he played a pretty good game. As did Mills.

McCartin has been thrown into a new position but he's made some reasonable contributions down back over the past two weeks. I thought he was better yesterday than last week.

Who are these younger players who are going backwards? Sure, Ronke has struggled to have much impact this year but on the whole our younger (or less experienced) players are showing decent progression.

You make some good points, which you players are going forward. Florent in fits and spurts is showing great work. Heeney is a star.

My concern is that the clear trend has been towards skill over hard contested football, this has been coming for a while yet are skills are at best stagnant, at worse they have deteriorated. Coaching isn't easy but I still don't see any improvement in general skill level, sure you cant make bad kicks great ones but you can make them better. Are we spending enough time coaching the basic skills of the game in match conditions, if we are why aren't we seeing any improvement.

I think John has been a fantastic coach completed suited to the heavily contested game style, when that style was in vogue he got more out of the list than probably any other coach (expect clarkson) would have. But the game has changed and I dont think his skill set will ever totally embrace that. We can get new coaches and even development staff but the trend still comes from the top.

A new coach is a risk, but I dont see Sydney getting back near the premiership window until there is drastic change. If John can change great but all I see is tinkering with a version of the slingshot. We still emphasize contested tough football but are generally losing the contest which means our game plan is no longer fit for purpose.

The trade ban has seriously damaged our list but are we getting the best out of what we have. I think we can do better.

I appreciate a change will course a downturn in results but at least we would see more scoring and more excitement. Is there a real point to playing contested football when we lose the contest, can't defend once the ball gets in our defensive 50 and are so defensively minded there is generally no forward structure. If we are going to lose i would rather lose 120 - 100 then 80 - 60

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Those calling for widespread changes would make sense if we had troops demanding selection. Unfortunately all have reasons for reservations. Here's a list:
Rose, COR, Cameron: playing well in NEAFL but that competition is many levels below AFL
Clarke and Melican: Poor so far this year
Rowbottom, Foote, Stoddart: inexperienced
Fox: a bit of a list filler, certainly not going to make a huge difference
Ling and Menzel: come back trail from long term injuries
Theses guys are our next in line but could anyone be confident that they will do any better than the guys currently in the side? That said, Ronke has been poor, down on confidence and Sinclair could do with some help.

I'm not calling for selection changes as we dont have the cattle. I am calling for game plan changes. If we took the chains off and went totally on the attack we would still lose our fair share but it would be fun getting there.

[Ralph Dawg]

Those calling for widespread changes are calling for more than just a different set of players being picked next week!

Like compete harder for a clearance?
Mark up closer when our opponents have the ball, especially in our half (that back pocket where they kicked 3-4 goals was just killing us)?
Like hit a target by foot or handball?
Like kick straight for goal?
So many poor pressure and skill aspects, much of that down to the players. I really hope they can improve.

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You make some good points, which you players are going forward. Florent in fits and spurts is showing great work. Heeney is a star.

My concern is that the clear trend has been towards skill over hard contested football, this has been coming for a while yet are skills are at best stagnant, at worse they have deteriorated. Coaching isn't easy but I still don't see any improvement in general skill level, sure you cant make bad kicks great ones but you can make them better. Are we spending enough time coaching the basic skills of the game in match conditions, if we are why aren't we seeing any improvement.

I think John has been a fantastic coach completed suited to the heavily contested game style, when that style was in vogue he got more out of the list than probably any other coach (expect clarkson) would have. But the game has changed and I dont think his skill set will ever totally embrace that. We can get new coaches and even development staff but the trend still comes from the top.

A new coach is a risk, but I dont see Sydney getting back near the premiership window until there is drastic change. If John can change great but all I see is tinkering with a version of the slingshot. We still emphasize contested tough football but are generally losing the contest which means our game plan is no longer fit for purpose.

The trade ban has seriously damaged our list but are we getting the best out of what we have. I think we can do better.

I appreciate a change will course a downturn in results but at least we would see more scoring and more excitement. Is there a real point to playing contested football when we lose the contest, can't defend once the ball gets in our defensive 50 and are so defensively minded there is generally no forward structure. If we are going to lose i would rather lose 120 - 100 then 80 - 60

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I'm not calling for selection changes as we dont have the cattle. I am calling for game plan changes. If we took the chains off and went totally on the attack we would still lose our fair share but it would be fun getting there.

I could live with this too but if we don't win the ball and just play soft, riddled with turn overs and loose marking, then no game plan will save us.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Well said Liz. People on here seem to ignore the fact that under Longmire we have NEVER missed the finals, played in three grand finals, won a premiership, while at the same time lately playing the most number of kids in the competition. Plus has had to do it sometimes with his hand tied behind his back by AFL sanctions. Also (maybe via our own fault) we have endured the worst free kick differential in the league and against teams like WCE we are effectively playing against an extra man in terms of possessions that "Mr Free Kick Differential" has racked up.

He has tried to freshen up the coaching staff with new faces, but with so many youngsters in the team, things don't happen over night.

I would also like to compliment Liz on her thoughtful and considered postings. They make a welcome addition to discussion, and are a blessed relief from the kneejerk reactions of some after a loss. Personally I thought there was a lot to like about the game, and felt in the lead up that such a young team would be hard pressed to go the full 100 minutes after a 5 day break. Effectively losing Sinclair also meant that Gawn had free rein to hit the ball where he liked. Well, that’s footy and injuries. With a bit of luck we could have been 7 goals up at halftime, somewhat like last week during the 3rd quarter. This is a developing team, one of the youngest in the comp. As they arrive at the 23-26 y.o age bracket together, they will be formidable.

[Markwebbos]

I totally agree re: Liz, the voice of calm and reason.

Didn’t realise Sinkers was injured?

[troyjones2525]

It’s easy for everyone on here to bag the fringe players but it wasn’t them.

Parker over rated and goes missing.

Kennedy - love the man but too slow now

Sinclair was destroyed

Buddy can’t kick 60m anymore and doesn’t do anywhere enough for someone taking such a massive salary

Papley would be one of the worst kicks in the game.

Smith, Grundy, Mcveigh all old and injured.

Longmire has no decent coaching plan.

Can't really argue with any of that. Especially Papley being one of the worst kicks in the game. He almost misses his foot nearly 50% of the time he kicks it! Mind boggling for an AFL footballer...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Auntie.Gerald]

I think the sad part for me again was a team employing similar tactics to the bulldogs

Ie we heard one of the commentators on fox last night saying that he heard the demons saying “once it hits the deck slap it 20m from the contest”

This is the same tunnel ball punch the ball tactic to get it to a one on one battle outside of the contest

This also leaves the likes of Parker and kennedy out of the contest and their direct opponents who tend to be faster then break hard and Kennedy and Parker are left clutching at straws

1. If we had a better dominant ruckman this would happen as much

2. We have to be better in this area to mitigate teams exiting the contest / centre clearance on their terms

[tasswan]

I would also like to compliment Liz on her thoughtful and considered postings. They make a welcome addition to discussion, and are a blessed relief from the kneejerk reactions of some after a loss. Personally I thought there was a lot to like about the game, and felt in the lead up that such a young team would be hard pressed to go the full 100 minutes after a 5 day break. Effectively losing Sinclair also meant that Gawn had free rein to hit the ball where he liked. Well, that’s footy and injuries. With a bit of luck we could have been 7 goals up at halftime, somewhat like last week during the 3rd quarter. This is a developing team, one of the youngest in the comp. As they arrive at the 23-26 y.o age bracket together, they will be formidable.

+1

[Hotpotato]

Gawn was so dominant we may as well have had Paps in the ruck, S. Reid back and Sinclair foreword.
The Dees had such a tinny night acing goals from tight angles all game.
So frustrating.
Thank goodness for the Masters.

[S.S. Bleeder]

I don’t think the sky is falling in despite the game last night so frustrating in the 3rd qtr in particular

A few comments :

1. We need a strong ruckman that can win 50% and negate the influence of the grundys , Gawn’s etc that destroy us in the centre. Naismiths tap work is so needed as a minimum to give us a chance in the middle. We have zero capacity to tap to our midfield players - which is such a disadvantage

2. We are so experienced player dependant this season more then ever ie Menzel, macca, Smith, Grundy when missing really exposes where we are at as a squad -we can even add Naismith and Hayward to that list now

3. In the season 2018 we had the most debutants in the competition and 2019 appears a development year also ie the players of the future are being brought in ahead of their time to experience AFL footy and that means some weeks we will look terrible due to inexperience

4. The long term upside for backing the players for the future is high but the short term pain will hurt.....COR, Blakey, McInerney, Thurlow, MCartin, Rowbottom, Dawson, Melican, Ling, Cameron etc will be up and down in 2019/20

I don’t think we can keep playing musical chairs looking for answers as we are without doubt on a very real development pathway in 2018/19 and if we want to be competitive again ASAP we need AFL continuity for our young guys go the future

Let’s respond not react - we need to back the players of the future now and provide them some consistent game time in AFL footy just like other clubs have endured such as the dogs, tigers, Melbourne, Carlton, Giants, bombers etc

We have the following teams to play next five rounds and it will be hard to watch but I have decided to refocus on what I am looking for given the cycle we are in

There is no point bashing my eyes against a scene I can’t control .....I’m looking forward to seeing small improvements in our young guys and as a team more flexibility in adapting to the game

Richmond
Giants
Lions
Bombers
North

Great assessment of our current position AG.

No need to throw the toys out of the cot at this stage. It's a very close competition and being off by a few % can have a massive affect on the results of matches.

A few points I'd like to make;
+ The 6/6/6 rule has had a significant impact on us. Teams with strong/elite midfields are heavily advantaged and that's not us unfortunately. A top notch ruckman would be handy too. We have decent ruckman but
+ The removal of COLA in addition to the short transition period of two years has been extremely damaging to our momentum. Had the AFL been fair, instead of vindictive, they would have given us at least five years to make this transition.
+ The trade ban was extremely unfair but I don't think it is to blame for our current position. Its biggest impact on us was that we weren't able to trade players out at a time when we needed to turn our list over.
+ We are currently in a period of transition. We have one of the youngest sides in the comp. Unlike many other teams we haven't bottomed out. We shouldn't be expecting the team to be premiership contenders.
+ We do lack a dominant tap ruckmen but none are elite.
+ Most importantly, as per point 4, we need to back our youngsters and give them games, provided we don't elevate them too soon and destroy their confidence. We need to invest in our future. If we happen to end up at the bottom of the ladder and Get a gun midfielder, then all the better.
+ I've got serious concerns about Longmires ability to coach in the current climate of the game. The rules promote a free flowing style and playing defensive, stop, start, footy is doomed for failure.

[dimelb]

Great assessment of our current position AG.

No need to throw the toys out of the cot at this stage. It's a very close competition and being off by a few % can have a massive affect on the results of matches.

A few points I'd like to make;
+ The 6/6/6 rule has had a significant impact on us. Teams with strong/elite midfields are heavily advantaged and that's not us unfortunately. A top notch ruckman would be handy too. We have decent ruckman but
+ The removal of COLA in addition to the short transition period of two years has been extremely damaging to our momentum. Had the AFL been fair, instead of vindictive, they would have given us at least five years to make this transition.
+ The trade ban was extremely unfair but I don't think it is to blame for our current position. Its biggest impact on us was that we weren't able to trade players out at a time when we needed to turn our list over.
+ We are currently in a period of transition. We have one of the youngest sides in the comp. Unlike many other teams we haven't bottomed out. We shouldn't be expecting the team to be premiership contenders.
+ We do lack a dominant tap ruckmen but none are elite.
+ Most importantly, as per point 4, we need to back our youngsters and give them games, provided we don't elevate them too soon and destroy their confidence. We need to invest in our future. If we happen to end up at the bottom of the ladder and Get a gun midfielder, then all the better.
+ I've got serious concerns about Longmires ability to coach in the current climate of the game. The rules promote a free flowing style and playing defensive, stop, start, footy is doomed for failure.

I'd go along with all these ideas, but the one that registered most strongly is the final in bold. Stands out at the moment as I'm watching the Magpies vs Bulldogs, and it's an outstanding display of movement, accurate kicking and hard running.