#AFL Round 4 Swans vs Dees Thur 11-Apr at SCG #AFLSwansDees @sydneyswans

[S.S. Bleeder]

Retention and recruitment is always difficult but have we made huge mistakes in letting Mitchell and Toby Nankervis. Can't recall that many players we have let go that have become crucial to their teams. I know salary cap roulette is difficult but I feel we erred big time letting these two go.

Hindsight is wonderful but I always thought we needed to keep both of them even if we had to sacrifice other top line players.

+1. Our list management has been atrocious over the last several years. We should have let someone (ie. Hanners or Parker) go in order to retain Mitchell. Our onerous Tippett contract cost us many players including Nankervis. We kept Goodes on the list for one year too many and lost Membrey in the process. So many errors were made.

[stevoswan]

We have the following teams to play next five rounds and it will be hard to watch but I have decided to refocus on what I am looking for given the cycle we are in

There is no point bashing my eyes against a scene I can’t control .....I’m looking forward to seeing small improvements in our young guys and as a team more flexibility in adapting to the game

Richmond
Giants
Lions
Bombers
North

We can win three of those I reckon, with a bit of improvement of course (just kicking straight would be a good start)....Richmond (call me optimistic but they're severely weakened atm and it is an away game.....pity Dusty won his appeal though), Bombers and North.

We won't beat the Giants or Lions.

[stevoswan]

Great post Liz with one exception. We've been spoilt for over TWO decades.

True, but I went through hell for the nearly four decades before that, so I'm not ready for 'down times'. Seriously though, if we do drop, as long as we don't take too long to rise again, I could take that. I remember the excitement of our club building towards greatness in the early noughties.....the sense of pride and joy after years of losing was head spinning. However, I don't want to wait long this time around.

[wolftone57]

Thanks Liz for those sober and tempering posts today, which addressed just about every issue from the many negative posters.

The Swans played some good footy at times, especially in the first half. There could be many reasons for the drop-off in the 2nd half, including fatigue from the 5 day break as well as the number of younger players.

We have to realise that there are no immediate answers to our problems. We will have to try a few different things as we go through the season until we stumble upon the best mix of players.

We are trying to implement a new and more proactive game plan, but just not executing well enough. And it's rare for any game plan to work when the team is not winning the contested footy. It takes a young team some time to get all the elements that make a successful side come together in one game and then on a consistent basis.

But it is not only the young players who are not performing for a whole.match. Our two ins last night one young, one old, may as well have been in the crowd the impact they made. In fact I'd suggest they had a nagative impact.

Too many of our senior players are down on form. They are showing little or no leadership to the younger players. Our best last night were one old player and one young one. The next best was a young player not an old player. We have too many passengers. You can't win when too few players are carrying all the weight.

There were at least 9 players who were very poor last night. When you put the coaching panel in there you have a few more. U say tgat because Horse & Co were out coached last night. When they started to surge just before half time it was clear what they were going to do. They were going hunting in packs. The Swans have not been able to combat that all year. Our opposition has more than often had far more players around the ball than us. This might be because we are throwing players back. We don't try to win games we defend them. Unfortunately you have to be ahead to do that.

Horse reintroduced the dreaded zone defence again. Zone forward defence, zone back defence. It is @@@@e nobody does it anymore because it leaves the opposition free to get space and control the game. They eventually get overlap because they have players free all over the ground because our players are protecting space not guarding players. This is such an old hack coach strategy. No team other than us has used this in two years or more.

Liz, we do play an old style. Yes Longmire has introduced some new strategies but on the whole our game has not changed a lot since 2014. Unfortunately he gas for mist part borrowed stuff that us working for other sides. We are nit doing anything exciting or new. It us all rehashed stuff. Yes we are trying to break the lines. Yes we are trying, unsuccessfully, to pinpoint pass the ball. I love that he is trying things.

But what we really need is to look at the players we have and design a game plan that suits the skill sets and talents of our personnel. Most very successful business does this. We need to go back to scratch by using human development techniques and identifying where our players are different from the other mobs. We need to start protecting the player with the ball. Teams hunt our ball players because they know those players will not be protected. We need to find more players at the fall of the ball.

The last but not least we need to be fitter. Our players have not played 4 quarters for a long time. Either it is tge fitness level or psychological. We have a poo sychologist on staff so if there are issues in thus area she should d be onto it. Why are our senior players playing so badly? Parker, Rampe (patchy), Buddy (late start), Hewett, Joey (patchy), Reid.



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[wolftone57]

We are attempting to move the ball faster and be more precise with our kicking. Our field kicking skills under scoreboard pressure last night were poor but when we had control of the game, we executed a lot better. Hopefully we can improve this skill execution as the season goes on because for the most part, we did continue to take some risks that, although they came unstuck, is really our only way forward from now on. There will be turnovers till we get better at it. Finals should be not our main priority this year and maybe next. This season not a failure if we reduce errors and turnovers but keep moving the ball quickly and to advantage.

Our problem with disposal is most teams are not under as much pressure because they at least make an effort to protect the player with the ball, holding the opponents up a bit. We don't protect. What's more once the ball has passed our defenders they stop. They do not protect, do not back up and too many players seem to be playing for themselves and stats.

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[S.S. Bleeder]

So many people have been critical of Reids ability to mark or kick goals. Historically, he's been very good at both of these, especially marking. In fact he was our best mark a few years ago. He's been sitting in the stands for a long time. We need to give him time to find his form again. His fragile body aside, he's a gun player.

[Blood Fever]

+1. Our list management has been atrocious over the last several years. We should have let someone (ie. Hanners or Parker) go in order to retain Mitchell. Our onerous Tippett contract cost us many players including Nankervis. We kept Goodes on the list for one year too many and lost Membrey in the process. So many errors were made.

Swans show more loyalty to our veterans and long time servants. Admirable trait and has helped the spirit and culture of the club. Rare in this day and age.

[Ludwig]

But it is not only the young players who are not performing for a whole.match. Our two ins last night one young, one old, may as well have been in the crowd the impact they made. In fact I'd suggest they had a nagative impact.

Too many of our senior players are down on form. They are showing little or no leadership to the younger players. Our best last night were one old player and one young one. The next best was a young player not an old player. We have too many passengers. You can't win when too few players are carrying all the weight.

There were at least 9 players who were very poor last night. When you put the coaching panel in there you have a few more. U say tgat because Horse & Co were out coached last night. When they started to surge just before half time it was clear what they were going to do. They were going hunting in packs. The Swans have not been able to combat that all year. Our opposition has more than often had far more players around the ball than us. This might be because we are throwing players back. We don't try to win games we defend them. Unfortunately you have to be ahead to do that.

Horse reintroduced the dreaded zone defence again. Zone forward defence, zone back defence. It is @@@@e nobody does it anymore because it leaves the opposition free to get space and control the game. They eventually get overlap because they have players free all over the ground because our players are protecting space not guarding players. This is such an old hack coach strategy. No team other than us has used this in two years or more.

Liz, we do play an old style. Yes Longmire has introduced some new strategies but on the whole our game has not changed a lot since 2014. Unfortunately he gas for mist part borrowed stuff that us working for other sides. We are nit doing anything exciting or new. It us all rehashed stuff. Yes we are trying to break the lines. Yes we are trying, unsuccessfully, to pinpoint pass the ball. I love that he is trying things.

But what we really need is to look at the players we have and design a game plan that suits the skill sets and talents of our personnel. Most very successful business does this. We need to go back to scratch by using human development techniques and identifying where our players are different from the other mobs. We need to start protecting the player with the ball. Teams hunt our ball players because they know those players will not be protected. We need to find more players at the fall of the ball.

The last but not least we need to be fitter. Our players have not played 4 quarters for a long time. Either it is tge fitness level or psychological. We have a poo sychologist on staff so if there are issues in thus area she should d be onto it. Why are our senior players playing so badly? Parker, Rampe (patchy), Buddy (late start), Hewett, Joey (patchy), Reid.

If nearly all the players and the coaches are either out of form or just plain crap, what chance have we got to win a game? Only small changes can be made from year to year, and then you have to test out those changes. The only immediate solution is that out of form players need to get back in form. You tell me when that might happen?

You are wrong about the zone defence. Every team plays a zone defence. There are no more man on man defences except for a couple of defensive matchups and perhaps a tagger. Everyone tries to cover whoever they find in their zone at the time. There are differences from team to team about how close the checking is and how players rotate across the ground and how far players drop back into their defensive zone, to name just a few, but otherwise only taggers go searching to find 'his man' to cover from one end of the ground to the other.

[S.S. Bleeder]

I'd go along with all these ideas, but the one that registered most strongly is the final in bold. Stands out at the moment as I'm watching the Magpies vs Bulldogs, and it's an outstanding display of movement, accurate kicking and hard running.

Doesn't that prove my point? The game has passed us by and we haven't evolved with it?

- - - Updated - - -

Swans show more loyalty to our veterans and long time servants. Admirable trait and has helped the spirit and culture of the club. Rare in this day and age.

And what good is it doing us now? Zip! Hawthorn has had the balls to tell their players when to call it a day and who is in front of who? Hawthorn has a much better list than us at the moment (future potential aside).

[The Big Cat]

Doesn't that prove my point? The game has passed us by and we haven't evolved with it?

- - - Updated - - -


And what good is it doing us now? Zip! Hawthorn has had the balls to tell their players when to call it a day and who is in front of who? Hawthorn has a much better list than us at the moment (future potential aside).

No way. They have a list that is more mature but not necessarily more talented. Your argument would hold that an under 18 team has a better list than an under 15 team.

[stevoswan]

I was actually thinking how glad I am that we kept Lloyd. Amazed anyone would be knocking him. Our ball movement would be non-existent without him and Jones.

....and it would be even better if he could hit a target. Jones is improving but he can butcher it as well. We need more return from their efforts......in fact, that goes for the whole team.

[Scottee]

[QUOTE=wolftone57;771437]But it is not only the young players who are not performing for a whole.match. Our two ins last night one young, one old, may as well have been in the crowd the impact they made. In fact I'd suggest they had a nagative impact.

Too many of our senior players are down on form. They are showing little or no leadership to the younger players. Our best last night were one old player and one young one. The next best was a young player not an old player. We have too many passengers. You can't win when too few players are carrying all the weight.

There were at least 9 players who were very poor last night. When you put the coaching panel in there you have a few more. U say tgat because Horse & Co were out coached last night. When they started to surge just before half time it was clear what they were going to do. They were going hunting in packs. The Swans have not been able to combat that all year. Our opposition has more than often had far more players around the ball than us. This might be because we are throwing players back. We don't try to win games we defend them. Unfortunately you have to be ahead to do that.

Horse reintroduced the dreaded zone defence again. Zone forward defence, zone back defence. It is @@@@e nobody does it anymore because it leaves the opposition free to get space and control the game. They eventually get overlap because they have players free all over the ground because our players are protecting space not guarding players. This is such an old hack coach strategy. No team other than us has used this in two years or more.

Liz, we do play an old style. Yes Longmire has introduced some new strategies but on the whole our game has not changed a lot since 2014. Unfortunately he gas for mist part borrowed stuff that us working for other sides. We are nit doing anything exciting or new. It us all rehashed stuff. Yes we are trying to break the lines. Yes we are trying, unsuccessfully, to pinpoint pass the ball. I love that he is trying things.

But what we really need is to look at the players we have and design a game plan that suits the skill sets and talents of our personnel. Most very successful business does this. We need to go back to scratch by using human development techniques and identifying where our players are different from the other mobs. We need to start protecting the player with the ball. Teams hunt our ball players because they know those players will not be protected. We need to find more players at the fall of the ball.

The last but not least we need to be fitter. Our players have not played 4 quarters for a long time. Either it is tge fitness level or psychological. We have a poo sychologist on staff so if there are issues in thus area she should d be onto it. Why are our senior players playing so badly? Parker, Rampe (patchy), Buddy (late start), Hewett, Joey (patchy), Reid.

I think most of the reason for the loss can be put down to a few things. The five day break and fatigue, very poor set shot kicking (probably made worse by fatigue), and the reliance on Buddy who fluffed chance after chance.

There are problems with the team selection as others have pointed out, but when you think that 2 players had virtually no impact and were carried by the rest of the side we did pretty well.

You are right Wolfy about the hunting in packs tactic, this was very clear from game one against the dogs; and any team with a strong midfield will try to use this tactic. Zoning won't work, but you need to have the players that can win one on one otherwise, and one on one battles seem to be a feature of the game now. Winning one on one is the key, and getting a player to the one on ones to help is important as is agility and strength, not just speed. Whilst we didn't have the cattle the other night, I think we have the chance to hunt in packs with two extra real mids who played in the twos and seem to work really well togetther, Rose and Rowbottom.I watched McInerney's game in the twos and cannot for the life of me work out why they picked him ahead of the other two.

[Auntie.Gerald]

McInerney - what did everyone think Re his role on thurs night ?

To me it appeared that Justin had a run with / tagging role on the fast young 20 gamer Spargo who only had 7 disposals. Spargo pick 29 in the draft two years ago only 17 pressure acts vs McInerneys 19.

In comparison Cunningham who was BOG as per Fantasy points had 22 pressure acts vs McInerney 19.

Where ever Spargo went so to did McInerney. Uncomplicated role for his first game. It surprised me outr backline game plan with Rampe being the player that slotted into being our rebounding player with Cunningham and Lloyd. It appears that it was never our game plan for Justin to be his natural rebounding HBF role we have observed in the JLT. McInerney just tagged all evening with 65% of his time playing as a forward tagger !!!!

Spargo is super quick and Justin’s defensive wing / HFF role probably was the easiest way to play ur first game at 18yrs of age


McInerney
TOG - 71mins only

Disposals - 1
Heat map - Offensive half 65%
Contested possessions - 3
Score involvements - 1
Pressure acts - 19

[lwjoyner]

Just recalling our last 2 years centre clearances. Seems to me we are continually beaten and who is the centre line coach (Kirky) freo has improved since he left and we have gone backwards since we lost dewey.
Maybe we need to look at our coaching panel again. Kirk was a good player but maybe he is not as good coach.

[Blood Fever]

Our problem with disposal is most teams are not under as much pressure because they at least make an effort to protect the player with the ball, holding the opponents up a bit. We don't protect. What's more once the ball has passed our defenders they stop. They do not protect, do not back up and too many players seem to be playing for themselves and stats.

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Many of our miskicks in this game came when the kicker was under no pressure whatsoever but was trying to take a risk to be creative because momentum had shifted to Melbourne. Some, like Ronke, who is an ordinary passer of the ball, were just terrible skill level errors.