Are the Swans headed for the spoon in 2019?

[liz]

I unfortunately agree how good McVeigh is and it's actually unfortunate that a player most likely in his final season is so important to us. He has more poise and skill in his little finger than 90% on our list which doesn't say a lot for our recruiting over the past few years!

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A player, originally taken in the top five in the draft, who's been in the system for around 14 years and has amassed over 300 games, has more poise and skill than a guy who has played under 50 games (and based on the make up of our squad, was likely a late draft pick or rookie pick)?

Who'd a thunk it?

[caj23]

He's not top 6, but probably top 10 given our output this year.

To be contenders we need him to be transitioning to the bottom 6 of our 22 and he's a long way from that

[wolftone57]

Will not happen....where's your faith? We're pretty bad at the moment but the wooden spoon is out of the question....and as I said on another thread, tanking is not in the Swans DNA.

You don't need to tank when your players are getting flogged in the contested possession every week. Not only that we don't have numbers at the ball. The reality is our game plan is, so dated if it were a movie it would be kept in the Silent Movies Section

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[wolftone57]

I unfortunately agree how good McVeigh is and it's actually unfortunate that a player most likely in his final season is so important to us. He has more poise and skill in his little finger than 90% on our list which doesn't say a lot for our recruiting over the past few years!

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I think Long has been drafted to take Macca's place. But unfortunately had Planter's Toe, broken toe that doesn't heal well, in his first year.

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[Blue Sun]

We won't be wooden spooners, Carlton will have that honour. We'll be one place above them. The team is young and their disposals just aren't going to cut it this year. I'm not game to tip them anymore (and I always have in the past).

[AnnieH]

The way we are playing, we DESERVE the spoon (and the high-quality draft pick that comes with it).
Carlton can't have everyone.
We might not be "tanking", but we're playing with no passion.
Same thing.

[liz]

The way we are playing, we DESERVE the spoon (and the high-quality draft pick that comes with it).
Carlton can't have everyone.
We might not be "tanking", but we're playing with no passion.
Same thing.

Carlton have already spent whichever first round pick they "earn" this year - they traded it to Adelaide.

[Markwebbos]

Carlton have already spent whichever first round pick they "earn" this year - they traded it to Adelaide.

Good point. If Carlton come last some heads will roll.

I wonder who will finish higher, Dew’s current club or previous one? And what that implies?

[stevoswan]

You don't need to tank when your players are getting flogged in the contested possession every week. Not only that we don't have numbers at the ball. The reality is our game plan is, so dated if it were a movie it would be kept in the Silent Movies Section

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...and yet we won a premiership three years after Avatar!

Agree our game plan has to change though.....

- - - Updated - - -

Good point. If Carlton come last some heads will roll.

I wonder who will finish higher, Dew’s current club or previous one? And what that implies?

I had a bad feeling when Dew was let go....and that feeling is not improving.

[Hotpotato]

A free fall low down the ladder is due.
The only one desperate to play fast footy is Buddy , can’t he play midfield.

[The Big Cat]

Poor old Horse can't win. Virtually everyone on RWO was calling for a change in game plan. The coaching staff are now trying a quicker, move-it-on quickly style and now this is being questioned.

Getting back to my earlier argument about injured players, even though past their absolute best, you can't tell me we wouldn't be better off in terms of win/loss with:

Grundy for McCartin in defence.
Smith for Thurlow.
Hayward for Clark
Menzel for Ronke
Naithsmith for Sinclair who goes forward tor Reid
McVeigh for Jack.

[troyjones2525]

A player, originally taken in the top five in the draft, who's been in the system for around 14 years and has amassed over 300 games, has more poise and skill than a guy who has played under 50 games (and based on the make up of our squad, was likely a late draft pick or rookie pick)?

Who'd a thunk it?

My point being Liz is that a player who is likely playing in their final season and is way past their prime should not be an integral player in a team that obviously had finals aspirations leading into the season...

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[liz]

My point being Liz is that a player who is likely playing in their final season and is way past their prime should not be an integral player in a team that obviously had finals aspirations leading into the season...

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If the player you describe wasn't an integral part of the side, I'd argue he shouldn't be occupying a spot on the list. That would be poor list management.

McVeigh was retained just because he is still an important part of the side, even more so given how many U24 players we have occupying other "integral to the side" spots on our list. The players who keep playing well into their 30s do so for a reason - that they are very good players.

Do you reckon Carlton should have ditched Simpson by now? Or do you think that the many young players in the Carlton side might benefit from playing alongside him, learning from him, and looking up to him?

And for a somewhat different perspective on the comment that McVeigh still being an integral part of our side doesn't reflect well on the younger players in the side, go back and check out posts from 15 years ago, when McVeigh was making his way as a youngster. There were plenty of (unjustifiably, IMO) scathing comments on him as a player. He was drafted in 2002 but took until 2006 before he established himself as an automatic selection in the senior side. (He wasn't part of the 2005 premiership side, and not due to injury.) The likes of Florent, Mills, Papley, Heeney, Hayward et al are miles ahead of where McVeigh was at the same stage of his career (though he was a year younger than most of those when drafted - two years younger than Papley). And those younger players I've mentioned haven't just been getting games in a Carlton-like side, anchored at the bottom of the ladder. They've been earning those game in a side that hasn't missed the finals for close on a decade.

[Ludwig]

A few months ago when we were doing our best 22 for the season, I highlighted in my submission the omissions of McVeigh, Grundy, Jack and Smith, viewing them as depth players this year, even if they were clearly better than players who took their spots. As it turned out, we've had a worse start than expected and the four have contributed little anyway, primarily due to injury.

So the umbilical cord has been cut by forces outside our control, and there's no point in trying to sew it back together. We are just going to have to fly with they kids we have and see how it goes. It will take some time to find the right combination of players and develop a system they are best suited for.

It will be a challenge for both the players and the coaches to find their groove. It's not going to be the same groove as we had in 2012, but I hope we can find the commitment to playing hard contested footy for 4 quarters that other teams feared about playing the Swans. That's one thing that we've stood for that shouldn't change with personnel. It's sadly been missing this year.

We've lost some on-field leaders, like McVeigh, but we still have plenty of others. Players like Lloyd and Cunningham have to fill the void. Mills looks to be a leader type, as does Papley.

I'm still hopeful that we can find our groove and start playing some decent football. The main thing for me is to improve as the season progresses and finish strongly, then head into 2020 on the upswing and ready to make a good showing in the finals next year.

I hope we are not bottoming out for some extended period of time. We really shouldn't be. We have a lot of good young players who should be coming into their own and making a real contribution to the team. We just don't know if they are willing to work hard enough to do what it takes to win. Only time will tell.

[Odysseus]

McVeigh was retained just because he is still an important part of the side, even more so given how many U24 players we have occupying other "integral to the side" spots on our list. The players who keep playing well into their 30s do so for a reason - that they are very good players.

Do you reckon Carlton should have ditched Simpson by now? Or do you think that the many young players in the Carlton side might benefit from playing alongside him, learning from him, and looking up to him?

Liz, I think your comments very sensible. I don't think McVeigh was retained as a favour, but because he still had a lot to offer, and part of that is experience and what he can model in terms of his calmness on the field and his leadership. At the same time it's true that, for myself, I find an emotional shift towards being less keen on his selection. If memory serves me correctly, in one of Liz's posts a few weeks ago she was critical of the way in which he tried to get a cheap 100 metres: given a 50 metre free, as he ran to the new mark he deliberately left his line to bump into an innocent opposition player, trying to suggest to the ump that he had been impeded and deserved another 50. It wasn't a good look, and it wasn't true sportsmanship. When I saw him play against Carlton, there was a point where the ball went out from an opposition player and McVeigh stretched out his arms, again making a suggestion to the ump: that he be given a free kick for deliberate out of bounds. If he'd been the "offending" player and a free had been awarded against him, he'd have been (rightly) livid. It was, once again, cheap. But it also made me think that, if I were an opposition player, I'd be laughing, because it could so easily be read as "I'm getting older, can't cover the ground as quickly as I once did, and am at the stage where I'll stoop to pleading for cheap frees because I'm not the player I was." McVeigh has been a champion of the club, as well as a captain. Given where we are this season, it would not be wrong to take the longer view and get games into younger players; on the other hand, younger players benefit from on-ground leadership. It's not an easy judgement, but once he recovers - and we all hope that will be as speedily as possible - he shouldn't be an automatic selection.