#AFL Round 15 Swans v Suns Sat 29-Jun at SCG #AFLSwansSuns @sydneyswans

[barry]

No better experience for young swans than a final or two.
We ain't Carlton or Melbourne.

[troyjones2525]

Yesterday showed why Horse should always show faith in NEAFL form and play players in the seniors where they are tearing it up in the NEAFL! Rowbottom looked much more comfortable playing in the middle yesterday than he has playing as a forward in his previous games in the seniors. He is a midfielder, not a forward.

If we keep showing faith in these kids they will develop a hell of a lot faster than playing them out of position!

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[liz]

The part of me interested in developing the next generation of players thinks, were we to lose to Essendon, the club could focus 100% on 2020. If we win (and if we do with the Buddy-less, Sinkers-less insanely young side we'll likely play) then I would expect our focus to be much more on short terms results this year.

Potentially we could have Cunningham, Macca and Kizza (remember him) available for the Bombers plus we also have Clarke, Menzel, Thurlow, Fox and a few others pushing for selection.

In terms of team selection, what would be different? Against the Gold Coast, the selectors chose Ronke over Menzel and Rowbottom over Clarke (though he's still young himself) or Jack. There's not much evidence that they aren't already backing in the youngsters.

[Markwebbos]

Liz, that's a valid point. The match committee this year appears to be much more prepared to pick players based on potential than experience. The non-selection of Kieren Jack in particular heartens me.

And if you look at the 22 who played, there wasn't really anyone holding a younger player out of the side.

But I still think the more likely we are to making finals, the more the temptation will be to pick the best side on the day rather than the side that's going to make us better in 2020.

I am thinking particularly in the ruck where I think they'll be tempted to play a makeshift ruck rather than giving Cameron a run of games (assuming he's going to return before Sinclair or Naismith). I was also thinking about the management of players like Sinclair, who they'd potentially get right for 2020 rather than trying to patch up for 2019.

[neilfws]

I was having flashbacks to last year at half-time, but the boys came good in the end.

Liking the growth in resilience this year: less panic and heads down when things are not working, they just keep working at it until it comes right.

Enjoyed Dawson's game (once he and the rest found a few skills). And Allir: he defends, he goes forward and kicks round the corner, he rucks, what can't he do! Crowd love it.

Ruck is a concern for next week, will be interesting to see what they choose to do.

Bit weird watching the Suns though; probably the only team that I couldn't name a player off the top of my head and essentially no supporters. It's like the team that isn't really there.

[Beerman]

No better experience for young swans than a final or two.
We ain't Carlton or Melbourne.

Hear, hear! Even winning games is good experience - one of the players even mentioned this after the West Coast game.

In the end I don't think winning or losing the Essendon game will change much for the coaching staff. They aren't nearly as fickle as the fans and will just try and win as many possible games as they can, balancing all the relevant factors.

[Beerman]

Having looked after plenty of shoulders in my second job (1st job is Swans supporter), the first step will be to determine extent of injury. If there is a small tear to the rotator cuff, Cal could play out the rest of the season after 2-4 weeks off to rehab it. If a large tear, he will require surgery to repair his rotator cuff +/- additional injury which in all likelihood would be season ending. The problem is if it falls in the grey zone and then becomes a balance between this season v long term, career shortening injury.

Thanks Ralph Dawg. It's always interesting to read expert opinions on any topic and on injuries in particular.

Incidentally, those suggesting that the swans medical staff made an unreasonable or irrational decision to allow Callum back onto the ground might like to post their diagnosis of Sinclair's shoulder injury? (I assume you have a medical degree specialising in sports medicine, right?)

[Bexl]

Yesterday showed why Horse should always show faith in NEAFL form and play players in the seniors where they are tearing it up in the NEAFL! Rowbottom looked much more comfortable playing in the middle yesterday than he has playing as a forward in his previous games in the seniors. He is a midfielder, not a forward.

If we keep showing faith in these kids they will develop a hell of a lot faster than playing them out of position!

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100%

[Ralph Dawg]

Thanks Ralph Dawg. It's always interesting to read expert opinions on any topic and on injuries in particular.

Incidentally, those suggesting that the swans medical staff made an unreasonable or irrational decision to allow Callum back onto the ground might like to post their diagnosis of Sinclair's shoulder injury? (I assume you have a medical degree specialising in sports medicine, right?)

I think in retrospect it looks a strange decision. Reflecting on it, the game was still in the balance, Witts was threatening to dominate the ruck and in true bloods spirit, we wanted to win the game. The initial assessment could have been that there was minimal structural damage and once relocated, it was worth a try (or it was completely rogered and not much more could happen - I hope this was not the case). The fact that it dislocated again easily may suggest the joint / cuff is very unstable and will require some time to properly heal.

[Wardy]

I was a week ahead of myself - sorry.

[goswannies]

Having looked after plenty of shoulders in my second job (1st job is Swans supporter), the first step will be to determine extent of injury. If there is a small tear to the rotator cuff, Cal could play out the rest of the season after 2-4 weeks off to rehab it. If a large tear, he will require surgery to repair his rotator cuff +/- additional injury which in all likelihood would be season ending. The problem is if it falls in the grey zone and then becomes a balance between this season v long term, career shortening injury.

RD, in your experience, how does the incidence of RC tears associated with shoulder dislocations in the younger (say less than 40’s) population compare with other common concomitant complications such as Hill-Sachs lesions or Bankhart tears, or recurrent dislocations?

My impression was that RC tears associated with dislocations were considerably higher incidence in the elderly population (possibly related to a natural deteriorated condition of the RC tendon with advancing age?).

Interested in your thoughts, as the associated concomitant injuries may impact management choices?

[Nico]

The part of me interested in developing the next generation of players thinks, were we to lose to Essendon, the club could focus 100% on 2020. If we win (and if we do with the Buddy-less, Sinkers-less insanely young side we'll likely play) then I would expect our focus to be much more on short terms results this year.

Potentially we could have Cunningham, Macca and Kizza (remember him) available for the Bombers plus we also have Clarke, Menzel, Thurlow, Fox and a few others pushing for selection.

Good way to lose a game bringing back 2 injured players to play on the MCG. They would be out of petrol tickets by half time. I can't see that Jack offers anything better than the current small players.

[Ralph Dawg]

RD, in your experience, how does the incidence of RC tears associated with shoulder dislocations in the younger (say less than 40’s) population compare with other common concomitant complications such as Hill-Sachs lesions or Bankhart tears, or recurrent dislocations?

My impression was that RC tears associated with dislocations were considerably higher incidence in the elderly population (possibly related to a natural deteriorated condition of the RC tendon with advancing age?).

Interested in your thoughts, as the associated concomitant injuries may impact management choices?

I'll start my reply with a disclaimer in that I am an anaesthetist who works with upper limb surgeons who deal with these issues.
The shoulder is inherently unstable given its required functions. The shoulder joint unlike say the knee joint, is pretty loose and is held together by the muscles (rotator cuff), ligaments and capsule.
Treatment will depend on the injury but also the desired end result. So for an 80yo with a degenerative rotator cuff, pain relief with a reasonable level of function is ok. An AFL ruckman, who is constantly at full extension / abduction will need a strong joint ie intact and strong muscles / ligaments / capsule to withstand the rigours of professional, contact sport.
It doesn't take much to make a shoulder joint unstable so it may be, Cal only has a small soft tissue tear that can either be rehabed non surgically or require minor arthroscopic surgery. However, if he is rushed back, I would worry that he could really damage the shoulder (if it isn't already). But this is all speculation and obviously more will be revealed once he has his scans.

[Captain]

Having played footy and gone through two rotator cuff repairs myself, I will put in my 2 cents worth.

My thoughts are that it has absolutely nothing to do with his rotator cuff. You don't dislocate your shoulder when you have a rotator cuff tear and you can actually function reasonably normally, though it progressively starts to hurt more. On a side note, with a rotator cuff operation you are in a sling for 6 weeks and then need another 6-12 weeks of physio to increase range of motion.

Due to the back to back dislocations, his shoulder is obviously instable and will surely require an operation/reconstruction otherwise there is just a risk that it keeps dislocating. This would obviously be season ending.

[Meg]

The Swans medical doctor, Dr Tom Cross, should know a thing or two about shoulder injuries - he had four shoulder reconstructions himself before age 22 as a rugby player.

Coffee with Cynthia: Dr Tom Cross - sydneyswans.com.au

And for the technically minded, he’s written a paper on rotator cuff problems in sport (see an attachment at the weblink below).

Dr Tom Cross | Sports Physician Sydney | Sports Medicine Sydney

(Note also a paper about hip pointer injury which he’s called the ‘Franklin-Naismith Lesion’ [emoji3]).

Incidentally, in Sinclair’s ‘Conversations with Cal’ podcast with Dan Menzel, Cal and Dan joked about how thorough Tom Cross is, with Cal saying the doctor is much loved by the players.

So I think Sinclair is in good hands. Unfortunately though he might be out for some weeks, if not the season if he has to have surgery.