2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[waswan]

Syd76 and waswan I'm loving the nudge nudge wink wink nature of this thread. Although I don't fully understand the cryptic reference to Brad Hill's girlfriend.

Langdon

[Markwebbos]

After raising the subject of recruiting Peter Wright, suddenly he's become a news item. Here are a few lines from SEN's Tim Watson, just one of several comments about why he can't get a game:

Whether it is at Gold Coast or at a new home, Watson believes Wright won’t make it as a key forward, but could make it as a ruckman who then rests inside 50.

“If you talked to people who watched him come through the juniors, he did get recruited as a forward, but I don’t see him being a modern day forward,” the former Essendon captain told SEN Breakfast.
“I think what you’ve got to do is look at him as a ruckman and can he play as a ruckman forward as opposed to a forward who rucks.

This was my thought about Wright. I think he has the attributes to be a ruckman, who can go forward. It's a bit like the last (good) days of Tippett, when he proved to be an excellent ruckman and a threat going forward.

He might be gettable for a fairly reasonable price, seeing that he's being devalued as a forward and not yet proven as a ruckman, and GC usually let their players go cheaply.

One negative is that I believe he's on a pretty big contract, but those things are usually worked out.

Given our draft position, we would probably have to use a 2nd or 3rd rounder from 2021 to do a trade. Then we can use our 1st pick on a KPF and get the 2 Academy boys with with the remainder. There may be some other pick swaps if Campbell gets bid early.

That would pretty much lock out Joe Daniher.

If we recruit and draft 4 players this year, there won't be much room for new players in 2021, as JPK is the only potential retirement next year, and even that I would rate less than 50%.

Ludwig, discussion about the future of 2MP has been going on for some time now, specifically because he can't get a game. I don't think the Swans will necessarily follow your plan to trade him and therefore "lock out" Joe Daniher.

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Langdon

Forgot about him

[dazedjosh]

Personally I'm not a fan of 2MP and don't see any reason why we should trade for him. We held onto Darcy Cameron for years and didn't use him, we currently have Knoll on our list and haven't used him at all, though at the moment that is because of injury. 2MP strikes me as a similar type of player to those guys, if we're not going to use them, why grab a similar who isn't an improvement? The one advantage he has over somebody like Knoll is that he is 4 years younger than him.

If we do end up chasing, I hope we don't give up a pick lower than #35 for him, assuming that he wants to play in the ruck as Sinclair's successor, we have no use for him as a forward. The benefit of that would be that we could use our first rounder this year to grab a KPD like Grainger-Barass. Even then, I'd prefer we go after somebody like Brayden Preuss rather than 2MP. Or Callum Coleman-Jones

I'm just not sure we should chase 2MP. If anything I'd rather we trade for a guy like Constable or Sier. We have a lot of smaller inside mids who are all around the 6ft mark, Rowbottom, Parker, Warner, Florent (though he's more of a winger). But we don't have an elite big bodied mid to replace Kennedy long term. I like Hewett as a midfielder/tagger, but I'm not so sure I'd rate him as elite. Constable and Sier aren't elite yet either, but I think they have a higher ceiling than Hewett and could be looking for a way out of their respective clubs.

[Ludwig]

All my comments on a ruckman or ruckman/forward are pure speculation. I have no idea if our list managers are interested in any of them. We just need someone to replace Naismith and given that there aren't any top notch ruckmen on the market, I think we should be looking at alternatives. There are going to be negatives on every one of them.

If we are seriously considering Joe Daniher, that would change everything. I don't think we can go for another forward/ruck on top of Daniher in this environment.

I agree with those wanting to see Knoll and Amartey. We should evaluate those on our current list before making a decision on bringing in someone from the outside. There always seem to be ruck revelations that come off the rookie list. Maybe one of our guys will be one of those.

[Ludwig]

I'm just not sure we should chase 2MP. If anything I'd rather we trade for a guy like Constable or Sier. We have a lot of smaller inside mids who are all around the 6ft mark, Rowbottom, Parker, Warner, Florent (though he's more of a winger). But we don't have an elite big bodied mid to replace Kennedy long term. I like Hewett as a midfielder/tagger, but I'm not so sure I'd rate him as elite. Constable and Sier aren't elite yet either, but I think they have a higher ceiling than Hewett and could be looking for a way out of their respective clubs.

I don't adhere to the theory that just because a team has a certain type of player, in this case, a big bodied midfielder, that we have to replace that player with a similar type when the current player retires.

Some of the arguments used against 2MP can be said about Constable and Sier. If they're any good, why do they have so much trouble getting a game? I rate Hewett much better than either one of those, granted that neither Constable nor Sier have had much of a go yet and can still emerge as good midfielders.

I don't think there's a one solution or formula that fits all when it comes to how a team is constructed. Even without JPK, I think we have fairly big midfielders without having that supersized player like Bont and Cripps. I'm more in favour of continuing the process of going for speedier types in the midfield, like Florent, Rowbottom and Stephens. Blakey could also be that big midfielder once he puts on more weight, but a big midfielder with pace.

The Swans' have been developing a game plan of moving the ball quickly from defence through the corridor. I think the coaching staff have already made their minds up about the direction the club is going. This process has been in effect for at least 4 years. I don't see it changing now.

[waswan]

Id grab the best mid plus our academy kids.

GWS were flush with Mids when they got Hopper, Taranto etc.
Who cares, anytime you can grab a player that can get it 30 times, you get them

[Ludwig]

Id grab the best mid plus our academy kids.

GWS were flush with Mids when they got Hopper, Taranto etc.
Who cares, anytime you can grab a player that can get it 30 times, you get them

That's why most of the GWS midfielders drafted are playing for other clubs. Treloar, Adams, Steele, Setterfield, Kennedy, etc., etc.

[troyjones2525]

Id grab the best mid plus our academy kids.

GWS were flush with Mids when they got Hopper, Taranto etc.
Who cares, anytime you can grab a player that can get it 30 times, you get them

waswan, being from W.A. what are your thoughts on us selecting Logan McDonald with our first pick if he's available? He sounds like he's stepped up to another level this year and is playing well as equal leader in goals in the WAFL seniors so far this year.

He's a genuine marking key forward which we could definitely use if he keeps up with his improvement!

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

[TheBloods]

Id grab the best mid plus our academy kids.

GWS were flush with Mids when they got Hopper, Taranto etc.
Who cares, anytime you can grab a player that can get it 30 times, you get them

I am not convinced that loading up on midfielders is the way to go. Western Bulldogs seem to have a tonne of mids - Macrae, Bont, Liberatore, Smith, Lipinski, Hunter, Dunkley, McLean. It's left them very exposed in key position areas. Their defence and forward stocks are not good enough, so they find themselves outside the eight despite their elite midfield.

[dazedjosh]

Some of the arguments used against 2MP can be said about Constable and Sier. If they're any good, why do they have so much trouble getting a game? I rate Hewett much better than either one of those, granted that neither Constable nor Sier have had much of a go yet and can still emerge as good midfielders.

I can see where you're coming from but I think the main counter argument would be that Constable is playing behind Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan, etc. and Sier is behind Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Adams. ie. two elite midfield groups.

I'd hardly call Gold Coast's key forward stocks elite outside of King. If 2MP can't get past guys like Corbett or Day to play as a forward/ruck who supports Witts from time to time then I don't see him being that much of an improvement on what we have.

I also agree that our gameplan has changed over the years to a fast moving game, but teams still need a big bodied mid or two to do the dirty work. Port and Brisbane have guys like Wines, Lyons, and Berry and they play fast paced footy. JPK is pretty close to the end of his career. We could use a ready made replacement. We could avoid all of this if we move Mills into that position full time, as he has the body for it. But Florent and Stephens will never be pure inside mids while Rowbottom and Warner are more in the Parker mould of inside mids. We still need a balance of players across the midfield and a big bodied mid is what we need to develop in my opinion.

[waswan]

I am not convinced that loading up on midfielders is the way to go. Western Bulldogs seem to have a tonne of mids - Macrae, Bont, Liberatore, Smith, Lipinski, Hunter, Dunkley, McLean. It's left them very exposed in key position areas. Their defence and forward stocks are not good enough, so they find themselves outside the eight despite their elite midfield.

Bullies also have the best upcoming KPF and Ruck.

Id still take best mid available anyday

[waswan]

waswan, being from W.A. what are your thoughts on us selecting Logan McDonald with our first pick if he's available? He sounds like he's stepped up to another level this year and is playing well as equal leader in goals in the WAFL seniors so far this year.

He's a genuine marking key forward which we could definitely use if he keeps up with his improvement!

Sent from my SM-G977B using Tapatalk

Dont follow it enough to know enough about him but know his coach very well, will ask him.

[Syd76]

That would be correct waswan.. the blakely/langdon bit. But my mail is that was all forgiven apart from the brownlow medalist. Anyway, Lachie Neale did not leave because of that.....

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Dont follow it enough to know enough about him but know his coach very well, will ask him.

The Duke?

[Ludwig]

I'd hardly call Gold Coast's key forward stocks elite outside of King. If 2MP can't get past guys like Corbett or Day to play as a forward/ruck who supports Witts from time to time then I don't see him being that much of an improvement on what we have.

I also agree that our gameplan has changed over the years to a fast moving game, but teams still need a big bodied mid or two to do the dirty work. Port and Brisbane have guys like Wines, Lyons, and Berry and they play fast paced footy. JPK is pretty close to the end of his career. We could use a ready made replacement. We could avoid all of this if we move Mills into that position full time, as he has the body for it. But Florent and Stephens will never be pure inside mids while Rowbottom and Warner are more in the Parker mould of inside mids. We still need a balance of players across the midfield and a big bodied mid is what we need to develop in my opinion.

Day is having a really good year. He was a high draft pick, but has been plagued with injuries. In the next year or 2 Lukoscious will move to the forward line. There's a video on ruckmen that might be traded on the AFL website. Nankervis and Coleman-Jones (pick 20 in 2017) from Richmond are possible ones that are attracting attention, as well as Ladhams from PA. No mention of Chol, but he's really considered a forward and playing too well to let go.

Although Parker is not exactly tall, I think of him as a big-bodied midfielder, because of his strength. Both Mills and Hewett are a good size and Rowbottom will get close to 90 kgs in due course. Wines as a slightly heftier version of George Hewett and Jarryd Lyons is only listed at 184cm and 84 kgs. Brisbane top clearance players are Neale, Lyons and Zorko; not exactly what you would call a big bodied midfield. I think we are up there with the bigger midfields. Our problem is more winning the ball and getting it to the outside. It's usually the quicker midfielders that are best at that.

[waswan]

That would be correct waswan.. the blakely/langdon bit. But my mail is that was all forgiven apart from the brownlow medalist. Anyway, Lachie Neale did not leave because of that.....

Lachie was disappointed someone can be looked after ($$$) like that and be very non commital and out of it. All while he was trying to get looked after himself...... Was hitting them pretty well at Royal Freo before he left too Lachie

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The Duke?[/QUOTE]
Colts/ex state 18s coach