2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[bloodspirit]

Why cant we prise away any of these young midfield guns from GWS? They dont even have to move house to join us.

It's a good question. Pretty much everyone that has left GWS has returned to their home state - rafts of them to Victoria, Lobb and McCarthy to WA. There might be some exceptions but I think that may be the major explanation. Nevertheless I hope we are trying to recruit from their juicy talent pool. Caldwell and Hately look particularly attractive options for us. How can GWS possibly hope to hold on to everyone. Realistically they probably can't, so we've got a hope. But then the question arises how much are we prepared to pay? What would you give for Caldwell or Hately? Pick 5? Pick 10? Pick 15? Pick 20? Then what will GWS release them for?

If we finish down the ladder again, our draft and trade position will be strengthened. Not that I am for one second suggesting tanking - I think we need to try our best to win every match, although not necessarily at the expense of getting games into our young talent.

[Ralph Dawg]

Good players generally want to play at strong clubs or clubs on the up.

If 2020 is a poor year, we need to make a daring trade or two. A bit like the Lions snaring Neale to signal that there is upside in joining us. As it stands at the present, I think most would be happy to take less and join a stronger club.

[bloodspirit]

Good players generally want to play at strong clubs or clubs on the up.

If 2020 is a poor year, we need to make a daring trade or two. A bit like the Lions snaring Neale to signal that there is upside in joining us. As it stands at the present, I think most would be happy to take less and join a stronger club.

True, but, like the Lions when they recruited Nealse, we can sell ourselves as a club on the up. I.e. we may be down now but we are certainly going to be rising in the coming seasons if we don't this one. I think we can make a persuasive argument to that effect. Of course, if you have the option of going to the Giants or Tigers you might pick them first. But I think we are still more attractive than a lot of the other clubs even if we're not currently in the top handful.

[Melbourne_Blood]

I mostly agree with you, barry. We don't appear to have done enough to shore up our midfield in the short term (which would have been medium term a couple of seasons ago), especially through trade.

I don't agree about failing to negotiate with GWS for that extra pick - there is nothing to suggest we had that opportunity. GWS was always going to prefer to get pick 4 from the Crows than pick 5 from us. The Crows were just at the right spot and we weren't. If we had held pick 4, then we might have got a deal done. BTW, was interesting watching episode 3 of Melbourne FC's 'To Hell and Back'. Apparently they rated Luke Jackson as the second best player in the draft and Tom Green at 3. There was a real risk they could have bid on him. They were tossing up between the two of them and (the doco makes it appear) they went with Jackson because he was a better fit for their needs given their depth of inside mids. I still wouldn't have minded if we had bidded on (or gotten) Tom Green ahead of Dylan Stephens. I guess the reasons we didn't are (1) we felt that Stephens, as a balanced inside-outside midfielder was a better fit for our needs; and (2) to a lesser degree, we wanted Stephens to feel like he was wanted and not a second choice option.

Looking forward, we are going to get a couple of players who can play through the midfield in Gulden and Campbell, and possibly this has been a factor in our choosing not to prioritise bolstering our midfield more in the short term. In fairness, we have done ok at looking after our midfield at the draft (Rowbottom and McInerney in 2018 and then Stephens and Warner last year).

It's at the trade table where it feels like we maybe could have done more. I think we could have looked at a player like Hugh Greenwood as an interim measure (I think he might be 27 or 28 already). I agree with those suggesting we target some of the surplus mid-stock that GWS have, especially since they are already located in Sydney. Hately was born in Canberra and played for Central Districts in South Australia before he was drafted and so hopefully would come with a limited go-home factor. Caldwell is regarded as the more talented of the two. Encouragingly Caldwell is from Vic Country and played for Bendigo Pioneers, so maybe less go-home factor than a Vic Metro boy. I wonder if he's mates with either Dyl Stephens or Brady Rowles? Caldwell got 2 games last year whereas Hately got 7 and is considerably bigger than Caldwell (190 cm v 183 cm). Hately played together with Gould at National Champs in 2018 and so they might be mates. The other inside mid GWS drafted also in 2018, Xavier O'Halloran was from Vic Metro and so perhaps is more likely to accept an approach from a Melbourne club.

I think GWS will be keen to hang on to Hately given his Canberra connection but surely there is no way they can hang on to everyone given the list they have and the lengths they will have to go to to re-sign Cameron and Williams after already signing up Coniglio, Whitfield and Kelly. Also you'd think we'd have to give up a pretty decent pick to get Hately. They paid pick 14 for him in 2018. Depending on where we finish on the ladder this season, we may have the currency.

Based on the compensation we get for high draft picks that end up leaving us ( with more runs on the board too) a pick 30 should do it for Hately!


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[Ralph Dawg]

From what I have seen of Hately and Caldwell, both would be in our best 22. In terms of midfield development, they are ahead of Rowbottom, McInerney and Florent. Both would be worth at least a late first rounder / early second, if not more, depending on what they do this year.

[SeanM]

Rowbottom was quiet last week. But I thought he was really good in the second half of last season. Really nice hands on the inside and a surprising amount of vision with his kicking to set up a few goals. I would still prefer him to Caldwell and Hately. Last year I remember Caldwell having a really good preseason game against us. But did not achieve much in the actual season.

I think Florent has been more inconsistent but offers something different to our other midfielders. I feel Mcinerney is still quite raw and more of a long term prospect/.

[Melbourne_Blood]

From what I have seen of Hately and Caldwell, both would be in our best 22. In terms of midfield development, they are ahead of Rowbottom, McInerney and Florent. Both would be worth at least a late first rounder / early second, if not more, depending on what they do this year.

I’ll give you the first two but not Florent, no way! He’s a pretty consistent contributor now and still on an upward trajectory I feel.


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[Ralph Dawg]

I’ll give you the first two but not Florent, no way! He’s a pretty consistent contributor now and still on an upward trajectory I feel.


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Poor Ollie keeps getting chopped around, at times expected to provide run off HB, other times as a link from HF, then in the midfield. Let's hope he plays only midfield this year and can take his game to the next level.

[Markwebbos]

According to the AFL live stats, Ollie had the most metres gained of anyone (573) Harry C was second (510) with Cumming third (465). Ollie had 24 disposals (18K, 6H) but at an efficiency of only 50% and 4 clearances. Which puts him equal 3rd behind JPK (8) and Parker (5). Others to get 4 clearances were the much maligned Naismith and Sam Gray. McInerney, Hewett, Sinkers and Rowrowrowyourbottom all had 2.

We are clearly a side in transition. Hopefully that was as bad as it's going to get for 2020 and getting more onball time into Florent, Blakey, Rowbottom, Stephens etc means they are going to improve over the course of the year.

[barry]

It's a good question. Pretty much everyone that has left GWS has returned to their home state - rafts of them to Victoria, Lobb and McCarthy to WA. There might be some exceptions but I think that may be the major explanation. Nevertheless I hope we are trying to recruit from their juicy talent pool. Caldwell and Hately look particularly attractive options for us. How can GWS possibly hope to hold on to everyone. Realistically they probably can't, so we've got a hope. But then the question arises how much are we prepared to pay? What would you give for Caldwell or Hately? Pick 5? Pick 10? Pick 15? Pick 20? Then what will GWS release them for?

If we finish down the ladder again, our draft and trade position will be strengthened. Not that I am for one second suggesting tanking - I think we need to try our best to win every match, although not necessarily at the expense of getting games into our young talent.

GWS have been very astute about maintaining a never ending pipeline of early draft picks. They take a look at them for a year or two, keep the best, and trade away the rest. Carlton has been a rich hunting ground because they see that GWS are offering a top 5 pick and cant control themselves. Even though, GWS have internally marked them as only a top 30 pick in quality.

Its the fish that GWS reject, that make GWS strong. Buyer beware.

[bloodspirit]

GWS have been very astute about maintaining a never ending pipeline of early draft picks. They take a look at them for a year or two, keep the best, and trade away the rest. Carlton has been a rich hunting ground because they see that GWS are offering a top 5 pick and cant control themselves. Even though, GWS have internally marked them as only a top 30 pick in quality.

Its the fish that GWS reject, that make GWS strong. Buyer beware.

Of courses GWS work to hang on to their best players but that doesn't mean the ones that leave are no good. The key is to pay an appropriate price. Shiels, Treloar, Adams, Scully, Hoskin-Elliott, Patton, Setterfield, Kennedy, Bruce, Plowman, Wilson, Frost are all decent players. However some of them have been overpaid for and others have not. Swans should know better than any other club the worth of GWS players given the frequency with which we play them (at all levels).

[Blood Fever]

GWS have been very astute about maintaining a never ending pipeline of early draft picks. They take a look at them for a year or two, keep the best, and trade away the rest. Carlton has been a rich hunting ground because they see that GWS are offering a top 5 pick and cant control themselves. Even though, GWS have internally marked them as only a top 30 pick in quality.

Its the fish that GWS reject, that make GWS strong. Buyer beware.

Not difficult to be smart traders and drafters when you were gifted a multitude of early picks from the git go. When the Swans landed in Sydney, all they got were Sydney street directories And bugger all else. Reckon GWS have underachieved big time given everything- and they spat the dummy when they didn't get Buddy as well. Joke.

[Melbourne_Blood]

Not difficult to be smart traders and drafters when you were gifted a multitude of early picks from the git go. When the Swans landed in Sydney, all they got were Sydney street directories And bugger all else. Reckon GWS have underachieved big time given everything- and they spat the dummy when they didn't get Buddy as well. Joke.

Have definitely underachieved. Can have all the talent in the world but a lack of history, of club legends to tell you what it fells like to win a flag, or how much it hurts to lose a Grannie, or never make it , plus no real supporter base with any passion etc. I doubt they’ll ever win , nor for 20 years or so anyway ( if they don’t fold in the meantime )


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[barry]

Not difficult to be smart traders and drafters when you were gifted a multitude of early picks from the git go. When the Swans landed in Sydney, all they got were Sydney street directories And bugger all else. Reckon GWS have underachieved big time given everything- and they spat the dummy when they didn't get Buddy as well. Joke.

To be accurate, Swans landing in Sydney with an established playing list. (not a great one, but one that could compete from day one), but no preferential access to new players as far as I'm aware.
GWS landed in sydney with a playing list of zero (which aint going to win many games), but a large preferential access to new players via the draft.

GWS's tragectory has, by and large, followed that of other "successful start-ups" with zero players: West Coast and Adelaide, who may not have been given draft picks but were given access to SA and WA players.

Comparing Swans and GWS first 10 years is like like comparing apples to oranges.

GWS would want to land a flag within the next few years to stay in the company of WC or Adelaide.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

To be accurate, Swans landing in Sydney with an established playing list. (not a great one, but one that could compete from day one), but no preferential access to new players as far as I'm aware.

If memory serves the Swans were given access to local players very early on, probably because the VFL realised the locals weren't up to much. The exception was Terry Thripp but his interest in the game had more to do with an ex Collingwood player father than a Sydney kids enthusiasm for aerial ping pong.

FWIW I think the injury plague that hit the Giants midfielders last year has accelerated the development of some of the lesser names. If they get most of their team on the park I think they'll take the flag.