Round 18: the other games. Get out your calculators.

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  • goswannies
    Senior Player
    • Sep 2007
    • 3051

    #61
    Originally posted by barry
    I'm always grumpy after a loss, especially where we should have won.
    With the loss we won pick 3. As long as the cygnets accounted for themselves well, we were always going to win, regardless of the result of the game.

    For some teams, 2020 was perhaps a wasted season. For us, I feel it was a season of growth and opportunity. Injuries hobbled us. But the young kids got exposure. Many of the second tier recruits from last year have developed. Our ageing warriors who were broken are having the time to get fixed. 2021 has promise.
    Last edited by goswannies; 21 September 2020, 12:21 PM.

    Comment

    • i'm-uninformed2
      Reefer Madness
      • Oct 2003
      • 4653

      #62
      I'm very positive about the season.

      At the start of the year, we knew very little - if anything - about whether McInerney, Stephens, Rowbottom and Wicks could play. We know now they can. What they'll become, we will find out - but they can play.

      We know McCartin can now play KPD brilliantly. We know now Blakey can develop as a midfielder. That's six players aged 20 or under we weren't sure about at the start of the year.

      I also think we saw Dawson double up on last year. Hayward got better. Papley got better.

      Sure, there are still some obvious deficiencies, but between all that, and a willingness to play with a lot more run and dare, and Campbell and Guiden to come, there is a lot to like about our trajectory.
      'Delicious' is a fun word to say

      Comment

      • barry
        Veterans List
        • Jan 2003
        • 8499

        #63
        Originally posted by stevoswan
        .....but struggle to take out ANY positives for the future.....then lump us in with 'soul-less' clubs like Carlton and the Suns because we ended up lower on the ladder.....and continually defend the most soul-less club in the league.....it's tiring. Feel free to express your views but don't cry when there's inevitable blowback. Especially when you post to stir the pot. Don't deny it.....
        Thats also uncalled for. I'm not going down this route of personal abuse again.

        Comment

        • Thunder Shaker
          Aut vincere aut mori
          • Apr 2004
          • 4205

          #64
          Originally posted by barry
          To be honest, I dont buy into that "culture" or "soul" business to much. Richmond (Ninethmond) didnt have a soul/culture 5 years ago , and then without much change, and group of players hitting mid-20's, they suddenly have a great 'culture' which equals numerous flags.
          They are able to attract recruits like Lynch and Prestia, not because of their culture, but because they can win a premiership.

          I think winning => great culture, not the other way around

          But if you say GWS and GC dont have a soul, then maybe it just takes time to get one. Does Freo have one yet ?

          I feel, and I maybe wrong, that since we have been weaker than GWS for a few years now (not withstanding the game this year), we tend to cling to having a "soul" as blanket for one up-man-ship.
          To be honest, we had a great culture during the Roos era, and it carried on during the early longmire era. But is it still there. Its not helping us win games at the moment, and thats really all that matters.
          You're being overly negative here.

          This year was the first time since 1995 we have missed the finals two years in a row. No other club had such a streak that goes back 25 years. Only Geelong has won more games in the last 25 years.

          Another streak we have that is still unbroken is no 100-point defeats since 1998. No other club has gone longer.

          Making the finals doesn't happen every year. We have missed the finals five times in the last 25 years (2000, 2002, 2009, 2019, 2020), fewer times than any other club. Missing the finals from time to time is normal. Percentages of seasons making the finals for all clubs from 1996 inclusive (25 years):
          Adelaide: 56% (14/25)
          Brisbane Lions: 42% (10/24)
          Carlton: 32% (8/25)
          Collingwood: 52% (13/25)
          Essendon: 52% (13/25)
          Fremantle: 28% (7/25)
          Geelong: 72% (18/25)
          Gold Coast: 0% (0/10)
          Greater Western Sydney: 44% (4/9)
          Hawthorn: 52% (13/25)
          Melbourne: 28% (7/25)
          North Melbourne: 52% (13/25)
          Port Adelaide: 46% (11/24)
          Richmond: 32% (8/25)
          St Kilda: 40% (10/25)
          Sydney: 80% (20/25)
          West Coast: 68% (17/25)
          Western Bulldogs: 48% (12/25)

          Or, sorted from greatest to least:
          80%: Sydney (20/25)
          72%: Geelong (18/25)
          68%: West Coast (17/25)
          56%: Adelaide (14/25)
          52%: Collingwood (13/25), Essendon (13/25), Hawthorn (13/25), North Melbourne (13/25)
          48%: Western Bulldogs (12/25)
          46%: Port Adelaide (11/24)
          44%: Greater Western Sydney (4/9)
          42%: Brisbane Lions (10/24)
          40%: St Kilda (10/25)
          32%: Carlton (8/25), Richmond (8/25)
          28%: Fremantle (7/25), Melbourne (7/25)
          0%: Gold Coast (0/10)
          "Unbelievable!" -- Nick Davis leaves his mark on the 2005 semi final

          Comment

          • barry
            Veterans List
            • Jan 2003
            • 8499

            #65
            Originally posted by Thunder Shaker
            You're being overly negative here.

            This year was the first time since 1995 we have missed the finals two years in a row. No other club had such a streak that goes back 25 years. Only Geelong has won more games in the last 25 years.

            Another streak we have that is still unbroken is no 100-point defeats since 1998. No other club has gone longer.

            Making the finals doesn't happen every year. We have missed the finals five times in the last 25 years (2000, 2002, 2009, 2019, 2020), fewer times than any other club. Missing the finals from time to time is normal. Percentages of seasons making the finals for all clubs from 1996 inclusive (25 years):
            ...
            Or, sorted from greatest to least:
            80%: Sydney (20/25)
            72%: Geelong (18/25)
            68%: West Coast (17/25)
            56%: Adelaide (14/25)
            52%: Collingwood (13/25), Essendon (13/25), Hawthorn (13/25), North Melbourne (13/25)
            48%: Western Bulldogs (12/25)
            46%: Port Adelaide (11/24)
            44%: Greater Western Sydney (4/9)
            42%: Brisbane Lions (10/24)
            40%: St Kilda (10/25)
            32%: Carlton (8/25), Richmond (8/25)
            28%: Fremantle (7/25), Melbourne (7/25)
            0%: Gold Coast (0/10)
            This list is very good, and certainly correlates to 'winning'. But if its a "soul" measure then GWS arent much different from Port, Collingwood, and way better than Richmond or Brisbane..

            I'd be interested in a top 18 of "soul" and "culture", and does it equate to winning. Mcs might have a list ?

            Comment

            • Thunder Shaker
              Aut vincere aut mori
              • Apr 2004
              • 4205

              #66
              We lost five games by under 10 points: Carlton (5), Collingwood (9), Essendon (6), Geelong (6), Richmond (8). Three of those five sides are playing finals.

              Our injury list was long, we fielded the youngest side in most games this year, and despite that we were competitive even though we weren't winning many games.

              We have some decent young players. Last year, an article on the AFL website ranked Sydney sixth for best under-23 players, and a similar article on SEN this year ranked Sydney's under-23 players first.
              "Unbelievable!" -- Nick Davis leaves his mark on the 2005 semi final

              Comment

              • mcs
                Travelling Swannie!!
                • Jul 2007
                • 8168

                #67
                Originally posted by barry
                To be honest, I dont buy into that "culture" or "soul" business to much. Richmond (Ninethmond) didnt have a soul/culture 5 years ago , and then without much change, and group of players hitting mid-20's, they suddenly have a great 'culture' which equals numerous flags.
                They are able to attract recruits like Lynch and Prestia, not because of their culture, but because they can win a premiership.

                I think winning => great culture, not the other way around

                But if you say GWS and GC dont have a soul, then maybe it just takes time to get one. Does Freo have one yet ?

                I feel, and I maybe wrong, that since we have been weaker than GWS for a few years now (not withstanding the game this year), we tend to cling to having a "soul" as blanket for one up-man-ship.
                To be honest, we had a great culture during the Roos era, and it carried on during the early longmire era. But is it still there. Its not helping us win games at the moment, and thats really all that matters.
                Talk about having too much time on ones hands.... it was a throwaway jibe and that's it.

                But to put it more simply - what is the underlying 'identity' of a club like GWS/Gold Coast? Neither really have anything in that regard - primarily because they are young clubs and they develop over time. But there is definitely something wrong at GWS, which seems to be moving back towards a club packed with talent but with very little direction or shared want. Williams now saying he wants out too...
                "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

                Comment

                • Markwebbos
                  Veterans List
                  • Jul 2016
                  • 7186

                  #68
                  Whateley says that the claim that the Giant$ side is stacked with talent is out-of-date.

                  He may have a point in that they are missing Davis, Ward, a ruckman etc.

                  But something clearly not right whether it’s captaincy, hub-life, coaching, sense of expectation / entitlement, I don’t know.

                  They still have way more talent on their list than clubs that made finals.

                  Playing finals has been the justification for players turning down mega$ from Vic clubs.

                  Could be something of an implosion during the off-season. Likewise at the Bombers.
                  Last edited by Markwebbos; 21 September 2020, 01:38 PM.

                  Comment

                  • i'm-uninformed2
                    Reefer Madness
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 4653

                    #69
                    GWS have massive issues. There is clearly a weird culture there. But also, they have a list problem.

                    The players that were crucial to their rise - Shaw, Davis and Ward - are now over 30 and just about done. Haynes is 28. Greene is 27. Cameron is 27. They're about to lose at least Williams, and probably one or two more. They've got no ruck. Football teams get old very quickly.

                    Yes, they have some good young talent. But I reckon they've missed the window in which they were destined to win a flag - 2016-19 - and it'll be a few years before they knit back together a balanced squad to go again. They might eke one out in the next two years, but I'd be surprised.
                    'Delicious' is a fun word to say

                    Comment

                    • barry
                      Veterans List
                      • Jan 2003
                      • 8499

                      #70
                      David king (perenial shiit writer) reackons Ross Lyon should coach the giants.

                      Comment

                      • KTigers
                        Senior Player
                        • Apr 2012
                        • 2499

                        #71
                        Originally posted by barry
                        David king (perenial shiit writer) reackons Ross Lyon should coach the giants.
                        If David King or even worse than him, Garry Lyon know so much about coaching GWS or any club for that matter,
                        how come they don't put their hand up. It's way easier chirping away in the corner I guess.

                        Comment

                        • barry
                          Veterans List
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 8499

                          #72
                          On Zac Williams leaving the giants...

                          The 26-year-old broke the news to the Giants on Monday, with his preferred destination a Victorian club that would allow him to be closer to his Albury-based sister.

                          Losing Williams is a particularly bitter outcome for GWS, given the talented half-back flanker is a NSW product who grew up in Narrandera, came through the club's academy pathway and was mentored by inaugural coach Kevin Sheedy.


                          NSW boy goes to victoria to be close to his sister which lives 4 hours away. lol.

                          Surely the swans can have a crack ?

                          Comment

                          • Markwebbos
                            Veterans List
                            • Jul 2016
                            • 7186

                            #73
                            Originally posted by barry
                            On Zac Williams leaving the giants...

                            The 26-year-old broke the news to the Giants on Monday, with his preferred destination a Victorian club that would allow him to be closer to his Albury-based sister.

                            Losing Williams is a particularly bitter outcome for GWS, given the talented half-back flanker is a NSW product who grew up in Narrandera, came through the club's academy pathway and was mentored by inaugural coach Kevin Sheedy.


                            NSW boy goes to victoria to be close to his sister which lives 4 hours away. lol.

                            Surely the swans can have a crack ?
                            He wants $800k a year.

                            Comment

                            • barry
                              Veterans List
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 8499

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Markwebbos
                              He wants $800k a year.
                              holy cow. Is that a pre-covid rate or post-covid?

                              If carlton pay that, then carlton will always be pretenders.

                              Comment

                              • Nico
                                Veterans List
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 11339

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Markwebbos
                                He wants $800k a year.
                                Hawthorn will because they always fit under the cap. Why wouldn't he go to the party club, woops, family club, because Clarko coaches them. $800,000, your kidding. He is an above average player and nothing more.
                                http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

                                Comment

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