2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Roadrunner]

Sicily is a flog ! Dont care how good he is we as a club shouldnt accept worms like him on our list we are better than that

Please TB- is there a need to use such language for an AFL player, even if he plays for one of our rivals! He is a very talented player though just like Toby Green, we might feel like giving him one when we play against him but there’s no denying he would be a great acquisition if he wanted to come.

Personally, I don’t think that would be the case but you ever know!

[Roadrunner]

Yep, good points TB. Still, I think the cupboard is not as bare as you're suggesting. We do have other midfield prospects:

* Hopefully Stephens can develop to be inside and outside, like Florent has done.
* Could Blakey become a midfielder? (I know your personal views on this.) I don't really see it but he's going to be somewhere between the midfield and forward. I don't see him as a defender. But then again, why not? He's got height and the perfect tools for rebounding (speed and an excellent kick). Maybe he could become a defender?? I guess he would have to become a much more accountable defender, learn to read the ball better in flight and be more composed and reliable with the ball in hand.
* Bell is useful depth but not looking like best 22 material.
* Sheather is a work in progress but looking ok at this point.
* Heeney could be moved to spending more time on ball (maybe a bit like Petracca) - would help if Hayward can consolidate some improvement to free us from needing Heeney forward.
* Campbell and Gulden are midfield prospects and Campbell brings speed, like Warner, Florent and Stephens.

Still, makes it obvious why we have re-signed JPK and moved Mills to the midfield at last. Also strengthens the case for retaining Hewett - but Hewett deserves to be more than a depth player. I don't know if Adelaide would be into Hewett - but they should be. So, for that matter, should Port. Their midfield shallowness was exposed by the Bulldogs.

All in all, after thinking on the page, I think we're ok in our midfield. We will draft at least one more prospective midfielder in and we've still got JPK and the youth will continue to develop. We could still trade a mid in if the right prospect crops up. I keep thinking that with their depth, one of the Demons or Bulldogs must be ready to spill someone of quality.

***

Also, returning to the KPPs, I just realised that as things stand Gold Coast have both Jack Lukosius and Ben King coming out of contract at the end of next season (just when our cap space opens up big time). I reckon one of them might be gettable because the Suns are going to struggle to hold on to all the numerous high draft picks they have on their list (Rowell, Anderson, Lukosius, King, Rankine, Flanders, Sharp, Ainsworth, Bowes, Powell, Hollands, Budarick, McLennan etc. etc.). And I reckon Lukosius is a better fit for us, not least because I think he's more likely to be willing to come to Sydney than King. So, if that's what we think might be a good direction to invest our $$, I hope we're speaking to his management now.

Blakey is an enigma- where to play him? I would try him for a while as a second ruck and midfield as you suggest.

Later, by all means put him in defence and this may ultimately become his position. He just needs to learn to keep it simple!

[bloodspirit]

Why wouldn't Sicily want to come to the Swans? He seems to be a very competitive player and I can imagine he hates losing. Has much better prospects with us than with the Hawks. I guess the main reason he might not want to come is that he's a Melbourne boy - he's from Keilor on the outskirts of NW Melbourne. So, he might prefer an offer from another Melbourne club that is contending, like the Bulldogs. (Demons and Tigers don't need him, Geelong surely can't afford him.) But surely we can offer him more $$ than the Bulldogs? He seems to fill a role that we could use, although if Melican (or someone) could step up then Rampe could play that role. But Rampe is 4.5 years older. Sicily is coming out of contract and will be an RFA next year.

[Roadrunner]

Why wouldn't Sicily want to come to the Swans? He seems to be a very competitive player and I can imagine he hates losing. Has much better prospects with us than with the Hawks. I guess the main reason he might not want to come is that he's a Melbourne boy - he's from Keilor on the outskirts of NW Melbourne. So, he might prefer an offer from another Melbourne club that is contending, like the Bulldogs. (Demons and Tigers don't need him, Geelong surely can't afford him.) But surely we can offer him more $$ than the Bulldogs? He seems to fill a role that we could use, although if Melican (or someone) could step up then Rampe could play that role. But Rampe is 4.5 years older. Sicily is coming out of contract and will be an RFA next year.

There may be several issues- the Dawks may want to keep him; we may not be able to offer the $’s to tempt him; or as you say, he may want to stay in Melbourne. However, no doubt if all these can be overcome, I agree that surely he would want to be in a club that should be able to compete for a flag in the near term- and that’s us!!

[TheBloods]

Blakey is an enigma- where to play him? I would try him for a while as a second ruck and midfield as you suggest.

Later, by all means put him in defence and this may ultimately become his position. He just needs to learn to keep it simple!

The writing is on the wall with Blakey , we have no idea what to do with him he doesnt have a big impact in any position he plays . He was supposed to be our best performing player of the preseason when he was on the wing and i was expecting big things and since then he struggled . Two months in and they've given up on that and they are trying him in the ruck but he's only 2nd ruck which is a minor role so he still wont have a big impact

We have signed him til 2024 , big mistake imho for a kid whose position we still have no idea on but whats done is done . Hes a swan til his mid career now so we have to persist with the experiment til we find out where he can play and offer the most . But for gods sake can we take the experiment away from the best 22 for now and give someone else a go ?? Stephens has an obvious role as an inside outside mid getting 30 plus possessions every week in the VFL and could fit in comfortably on a wing or in midfield rotation but we wont give him a go , meanwhile Blakey is thrown around into different positions for the umpteenth time given a chance to prove him self . We are a good side but not so good that we can get away with having someone on their training wheels trying to find a role taking a spot every week !

& no im NOT deriding BLakey i am simply saying that hes had chances and has got a lot to learn and this chopping and changing does him and the team no favours and all its doing is hurting his form and making us waste Stephens

[Bangalore Swans]

The writing is on the wall with Blakey , we have no idea what to do with him he doesnt have a big impact in any position he plays . He was supposed to be our best performing player of the preseason when he was on the wing and i was expecting big things and since then he struggled . Two months in and they've given up on that and they are trying him in the ruck but he's only 2nd ruck which is a minor role so he still wont have a big impact

We have signed him til 2024 , big mistake imho for a kid whose position we still have no idea on but whats done is done . Hes a swan til his mid career now so we have to persist with the experiment til we find out where he can play and offer the most . But for gods sake can we take the experiment away from the best 22 for now and give someone else a go ?? Stephens has an obvious role as an inside outside mid getting 30 plus possessions every week in the VFL and could fit in comfortably on a wing or in midfield rotation but we wont give him a go , meanwhile Blakey is thrown around into different positions for the umpteenth time given a chance to prove him self . We are a good side but not so good that we can get away with having someone on their training wheels trying to find a role taking a spot every week !

& no im NOT deriding BLakey i am simply saying that hes had chances and has got a lot to learn and this chopping and changing does him and the team no favours and all its doing is hurting his form and making us waste Stephens

I believe in him because he does a couple of things a game that scream “Wow Factor”. Against the Pies he took a strong mark at half forward and played on straight away to give Buddy a one on one.

He then wheeled to his left at half forward, beat the man trying to cut his angle and kicked a beautiful ball to the goal like that McLean marked.

How can forget that run off half back against Richmond where he hit the post. Brilliant football.

He does these things two or three times a game. We all want him to do it more times and he will with the confidence of the coaching staff.

When the “Wow Factor” translates into 10 time a game them we’ll have an elite footballer.

For those wondering, I think it’s clear that TheBoods and I are different people.

[TheBloods]

I believe in him because he does a couple of things a game that scream “Wow Factor”. Against the Pies he took a strong mark at half forward and played on straight away to give Buddy a one on one.

He then wheeled to his left at half forward, beat the man trying to cut his angle and kicked a beautiful ball to the goal like that McLean marked.

How can forget that run off half back against Richmond where he hit the post. Brilliant football.

He does these things two or three times a game. We all want him to do it more times and he will with the confidence of the coaching staff.

When the “Wow Factor” translates into 10 time a game them we’ll have an elite footballer.

For those wondering, I think it’s clear that TheBoods and I are different people.

Well he can have a spot when he starts doing those things 10 times a game ! 2 or 3 times a game isnt good enough

[MattW]

On Footy Classified last night, Chad Cornes highlighted Will Hayward as a player who is starting to showcase his great talent. He showed some of Wilbur's great marks on Saturday as evidence. The thing that most impressed me about him on Saturday was that he had 7 tackles. Given his defensive efforts have been his big weakness that's a good sign. I know some on here have been highly critical of this guy but he may be turning the corner?

Kane Cornes?

But yes, it's a good shout.

Hayward's marking has been outstanding and his pressure without the ball has noticeably improved.

[Ludwig]

This has been a pretty lively discussion on list management for this time of year. I agree with some suggestions and disagree with others, which is what you would expect. Here are a few thoughts as things stand today:

• We don't need any more midfielders. Despite the adage, you certainly can have too many midfielders. And if you keep them too long, they will go elsewhere, which I suppose fixes the problem in an uncontrolled manner, like Treloar leaving Collingwood.
• If we are arguing now about how to get Stephens, and when fit, Campbell and Gulden into the senior side, then we are pushing the limits for quality midfielders. We aren't sacrificing quality when we bring in any of these youngsters.
• There are several B grade midfielders that need to be carried for depth. These are players who are good enough to be in the side who can play a role and not hurt the team. I would put Clarke and Taylor in this group. I think it's worth keeping them on the list.
• We do need a stronger mix with KPPs. We may have a lack of quality or perhaps just a lack of clarity. and what I mean by that is we still need to see how things unfold this year to get a better idea if we can go forward with players like Amartey and Brand, or do we need to look for replacements.
• We can strengthen our KPP stocks by drafting Paddy McCartin. I don't think his indiscretion should be a factory. One bad moment shouldn't mark or break a career.
• I think we can forget recruiting a pricey quality forward this year. It's better for us to wait until 2022 to entertain this sort of idea. Buddy's big contract will be done and we should have more bargaining power. We also buy time and see how McDonald, McLean, Raid, Amartey and Paddy McCartin pan out in a post Buddy era. It might turn out to be a pretty strong group of key forwards, We will have a better idea next year and more options in play as well.
• With Hickey playing so well and Naismith fit again, it's not the time to recruit a ruckman like Hayes of CCJ, who are ready to play now and not in a few years time. We could look to recruit an 18 or 19 yo in the draft to replace Sinclair. I prefer to put this decision off until year end when we can reevaluate our ruck stocks, especially on the injury front.
• I wouldn't be looking to cut or draft many players this year. Perhaps only 2 from the ND. I think Gray will be delisted, Ronke will either be traded or delisted and Hewett is likely to go FA or be traded. There's a good chance that there will be a couple more cuts, but it's too early to say who.
• I would love to have Harry McKay or Weiderman on our list, but they are out of our price range and timing is not right, noted earlier.
• The best end of season recruiting option that I see would be Mabior Chol, which I mentioned in earlier posts. He's far from the best, but offers the most potential for a low cost forward/ruck who should be available. He would allow us cut Sinclair, so replacing a 3rd ruck option and backup forward with a younger one.
• If Brand isn't good enough to remain on our list, I would like us to recruit a ~2 mtr. KPD. With so many monster forwards going around these days, I feel that we need a really big key back, like Andrews or Darcy Moore, to match it with them. It seems a bit crazy that Rampe gets those kind of assignments, and usually doesn't do a bad job at it either.
• Go to the draft using our 1st two draft picks. Pick best available.

[mcs]

Please TB- is there a need to use such language for an AFL player, even if he plays for one of our rivals! He is a very talented player though just like Toby Green, we might feel like giving him one when we play against him but there’s no denying he would be a great acquisition if he wanted to come.

Personally, I don’t think that would be the case but you ever know!

Not commenting on the original post, but I really dislike the term 'flog' - for me its a completely meaningless piece of footy slang that I've never really understood. Most terms meant to not be flattering at least have some obvious connotation to tell you why players aren't liked. But I've always my head about that one. I hated how it was thrown around a lot during the Goodes issue almost at will, despite it really having very little defined meaning to it. Just call someone a @@@@ bloke and be done with it lol

[mcs]

This has been a pretty lively discussion on list management for this time of year. I agree with some suggestions and disagree with others, which is what you would expect. Here are a few thoughts as things today:

• We don't need any more midfielders. Despite the adage, you certainly can have too many midfielders. And if you keep them too long, they will go elsewhere, which I suppose fixes the problem in an uncontrolled manner, like Treloar leaving Collingwood.
• If we are arguing now about how to get Stephens, and when fit, Campbell and Gulden into the senior side, then we are pushing the limits for quality midfielders. We aren't sacrificing quality when we bring in any of these youngsters.
• There are several B grade midfielders that need to be carried for depth. These are players who are good enough to be in the side who can play a role and not hurt the team. I would put Clarke and Taylor in this group. I think it's worth keeping them on the list.
• We do need a stronger mix with KPPs. We may have a lack of quality or perhaps just a lack of clarity. and what I mean by that is we still need to see how things unfold this year to get a better idea if we can go forward with players like Amartey and Brand, or do we need to look for replacements.
• We can strengthen our KPP stocks by drafting Paddy McCartin. I don't think his indiscretion should be a factory. One bad moment shouldn't mark or break a career.
• I think we can forget recruiting a pricey quality forward this year. It's better for us to wait until 2022 to entertain this sort of idea. Buddy's big contract will be done and we should have more bargaining power. We also buy time and see how McDonald, McLean, Raid, Amartey and Paddy McCartin pan out in a post Buddy era. It might turn out to be a pretty strong group of key forwards, We will have a better idea next year and more options in play as well.
• With Hickey playing so well and Naismith fit again, it's not the time to recruit a ruckman like Hayes of CCJ, who are ready to play now and not in a few years time. We could look to recruit an 18 or 19 yo in the draft to replace Sinclair. I prefer to put this decision off until year end when we can reevaluate our ruck stocks, especially on the injury front.
• I wouldn't be looking to cut or draft many players this year. Perhaps only 2 from the ND. I think Gray will be delisted, Ronke will either be traded or delisted and Hewett is likely to go FA or be traded. There's a good chance that there will be a couple more cuts, but it's too early to say who.
• I would love to have Harry McKay or Weiderman on our list, but they are out of our price range and timing is not right, noted earlier.
• The best end of season recruiting option that I see would be Mabior Chol, which I mentioned in earlier posts. He's far from the best, but offers the most potential for a low cost forward/ruck who should be available. He would allow us cut Sinclair, so replacing a 3rd ruck option and backup forward with a younger one.
• If Brand isn't good enough to remain on our list, I would like us to recruit a ~2 mtr. KPD. With so many monster forwards going around these days, I feel that we need a really big key back, like Andrews or Darcy Moore, to match it with them. It seems a bit crazy that Rampe gets those kind of assignments, and usually doesn't do a bad job at it either.
• Go to the draft using our 1st two draft picks. Pick best available.

That's my take too broadly ludwig. I do think we will look to find a younger project ruck - but maybe the young guy playing reserves will be seen as enough of a long term prosepct not to.

[Bloods05]

Not commenting on the original post, but I really dislike the term 'flog' - for me its a completely meaningless piece of footy slang that I've never really understood. Most terms meant to not be flattering at least have some obvious connotation to tell you why players aren't liked. But I've always my head about that one. I hated how it was thrown around a lot during the Goodes issue almost at will, despite it really having very little defined meaning to it. Just call someone a @@@@ bloke and be done with it lol

Amen to that.

[bloodspirit]

This has been a pretty lively discussion on list management for this time of year. I agree with some suggestions and disagree with others, which is what you would expect. Here are a few thoughts as things stand today:

• We don't need any more midfielders. Despite the adage, you certainly can have too many midfielders. And if you keep them too long, they will go elsewhere, which I suppose fixes the problem in an uncontrolled manner, like Treloar leaving Collingwood.
• If we are arguing now about how to get Stephens, and when fit, Campbell and Gulden into the senior side, then we are pushing the limits for quality midfielders. We aren't sacrificing quality when we bring in any of these youngsters.
• There are several B grade midfielders that need to be carried for depth. These are players who are good enough to be in the side who can play a role and not hurt the team. I would put Clarke and Taylor in this group. I think it's worth keeping them on the list.
• We do need a stronger mix with KPPs. We may have a lack of quality or perhaps just a lack of clarity. and what I mean by that is we still need to see how things unfold this year to get a better idea if we can go forward with players like Amartey and Brand, or do we need to look for replacements.
• We can strengthen our KPP stocks by drafting Paddy McCartin. I don't think his indiscretion should be a factory. One bad moment shouldn't mark or break a career.
• I think we can forget recruiting a pricey quality forward this year. It's better for us to wait until 2022 to entertain this sort of idea. Buddy's big contract will be done and we should have more bargaining power. We also buy time and see how McDonald, McLean, Raid, Amartey and Paddy McCartin pan out in a post Buddy era. It might turn out to be a pretty strong group of key forwards, We will have a better idea next year and more options in play as well.
• With Hickey playing so well and Naismith fit again, it's not the time to recruit a ruckman like Hayes of CCJ, who are ready to play now and not in a few years time. We could look to recruit an 18 or 19 yo in the draft to replace Sinclair. I prefer to put this decision off until year end when we can reevaluate our ruck stocks, especially on the injury front.
• I wouldn't be looking to cut or draft many players this year. Perhaps only 2 from the ND. I think Gray will be delisted, Ronke will either be traded or delisted and Hewett is likely to go FA or be traded. There's a good chance that there will be a couple more cuts, but it's too early to say who.
• I would love to have Harry McKay or Weiderman on our list, but they are out of our price range and timing is not right, noted earlier.
• The best end of season recruiting option that I see would be Mabior Chol, which I mentioned in earlier posts. He's far from the best, but offers the most potential for a low cost forward/ruck who should be available. He would allow us cut Sinclair, so replacing a 3rd ruck option and backup forward with a younger one.
• If Brand isn't good enough to remain on our list, I would like us to recruit a ~2 mtr. KPD. With so many monster forwards going around these days, I feel that we need a really big key back, like Andrews or Darcy Moore, to match it with them. It seems a bit crazy that Rampe gets those kind of assignments, and usually doesn't do a bad job at it either.
• Go to the draft using our 1st two draft picks. Pick best available.

I agree we may prefer to wait to chase a big or biggish name KPP until the end of next season when our salary cap will open up so much - but also depends on taking opportunities when they present.

I don't agree about only taking 2 picks at the ND. I think we definitely take at least 3. In fact, isn't that the rule? Either way, particularly in a year where the draft is meant to be strong, I think we want to take at least 3.

I agree we want a younger ruck-forward to replace Sinclair. However, they don't have to be a third stringer. If they're good enough, they can be best 22 because we don't have a ruck-forward at the moment. (I am not prepared to call Blakey a second ruck even if I support him being among a mix of players to take some ruck contests while we don't have a second ruck. And I wouldn't even classify Reid that way, even though he is also someone that can take a few ruck contests - and is a better option to do so than Blakey). Longer term, that player could also fill the space that Reid's departure will create i.e. a forward line in a few years could be McDonald, McLean (assuming he continues on his current trajectory) and a player that can relieve in the ruck (unless McLean can become that player). Daniher would actually have been perfect to fill that role.

I think Mabior Chol is a worthy suggestion, and his team mate, Callum Coleman-Jones is another possibility. Both are out of contract at the end of this season. Chol was a rookie draft selection and CCJ a high draft pick. Tigers fans on BF seem keener on CCJ. Of the two, I possibly lean to Chol because he seems more versatile and agile whereas CCJ would be more similar to McLean. But I don't really feel qualified to say since I don't follow RFC, let alone their VFL team. Incidentally, I note that Richmond do have an abundance of rucks. First there's Nank, then, probably, Soldo (currently long term injured). After that you currently have Chol and CCJ, but they are both more ruck-forwards (which is what I think we could use to replace Sinclair). And then they have the following additional players listed as rucks on their website: Biggie Nyuon, Mate Colina (a Cat B rookie giant taller than Coxzilla) and Samson Ryan (206 cm, taken at pick 40 2020 ND). That's a lot of depth - they can definitely afford to spill some ruck depth - and the continued drafting of additional rucks doesn't suggest a high degree of confidence in their 2nd and 3rd stringers.

[bloodspirit]

I accidentally posted this to the VFL thread, but it belongs here:

AFL Draft 2021 Chris Doerre Knightmare's - mid-season draft top 10 Power Rankings (espn.com.au)

Mid-season draft is just two weeks away today. In this preview, Schlensog, and possibly Avery, catch the eye although I've never heard of them before.

Like Button Notice (view)

[barry]

Sciliy would make us a flag favourite. Back the truck full of cash up to his place.