2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[111431]

If I might be a bit presumptuous here i apologise. I am trying to rationalise your argument. I sense you are basing your views on how footy was for you in your playing days. If your frequent references to the "old days", SMFC etc is anything to go by Im guessing you were around in the 70s/80s?? Correct me if im wrong! No offence intended!!

Footy really was a different sphere back then. The insults and the names that were directed at the players from the coaches themselves was pretty intense. You wouldnt hear JL telling one of his players they were playing like pansies, but that was a frequent of the time. The sport has changed! With it more diplomacy. Mental health is prevalent in AFL! Part of being a coach now isn't just putting magnets on a board and barking instructions from the dug out. Its about people skills, communicating. Not every player is the same. They dont all respond to authority the same. So I'm sure in your head TB, treating professional footballers like machines who have one job and one job only which is to do their best is normal. But thats no longer the case.

It is jarring to posters on here. I have a son who is 20. He played footy all in high school and is in the Nab league competition now, and i would be horrified if he was being viewed by his coach as you would likely view him. I'm not even certain you mean for it to be so harsh and brutish. But it does come off that way. These young men and in some cases BOYS are only human, they will have bad days and bad weeks and maybe even bad months. It is frustrating and we will ponder the reasons why and come to our own conclusions but we must remember they are HUMAN BEINGS. Give them a go, show them some patience TB and you might end up seeing the results you want to see from them so badly!!

Excellent and humane observation. They all try their butts off - being the best they can is what has driven them to this level. A good coach today is an excellent communicator, people manager and has an eye for talent who recognises the differences and the drivers in each player. It is up to the player to make the most of the opportunity. I think, in Horse, we have one of the top coaches who has demonstrated this season, the ability to have a Plan B on match day. All credit to him and the players

[SwanSand]

If I might be a bit presumptuous here i apologise. I am trying to rationalise your argument. I sense you are basing your views on how footy was for you in your playing days. If your frequent references to the "old days", SMFC etc is anything to go by Im guessing you were around in the 70s/80s?? Correct me if im wrong! No offence intended!!

Footy really was a different sphere back then. The insults and the names that were directed at the players from the coaches themselves was pretty intense. You wouldnt hear JL telling one of his players they were playing like pansies, but that was a frequent of the time. The sport has changed! With it more diplomacy. Mental health is prevalent in AFL! Part of being a coach now isn't just putting magnets on a board and barking instructions from the dug out. Its about people skills, communicating. Not every player is the same. They dont all respond to authority the same. So I'm sure in your head TB, treating professional footballers like machines who have one job and one job only which is to do their best is normal. But thats no longer the case.

It is jarring to posters on here. I have a son who is 20. He played footy all in high school and is in the Nab league competition now, and i would be horrified if he was being viewed by his coach as you would likely view him. I'm not even certain you mean for it to be so harsh and brutish. But it does come off that way. These young men and in some cases BOYS are only human, they will have bad days and bad weeks and maybe even bad months. It is frustrating and we will ponder the reasons why and come to our own conclusions but we must remember they are HUMAN BEINGS. Give them a go, show them some patience TB and you might end up seeing the results you want to see from them so badly!!

Very well said ! Thank you !

[stevoswan]

You might want to read the thread a second time...

You may be right.....I missed his earlier post saying he would gladly let Lloyd go.

- - - Updated - - -

Sprite said that would trade Lloyd, that he is over rated, that hes not one of their favourites and now that his best and fairest was an anomaly ! What an insult to a servant of the club who for better or worst has laced up his boots and did his job every week since debuting !

Correct. I missed that earlier post re: letting Lloyd go. I was wrong.

[stevoswan]

Surely you are not comparing those two to a two time skilton medalist ? They arent proven servants of the club. Lloyd has earned his stripes and proven himself a reliable player. We as fans are too eager to throw the older players to the scrap heap when some new young player comes along. Not good enough .

But there you go again.....he is saying that all of our players deserve respect and all you can do is double down on your RB and Blakey bashing.

With all due respect to Lloyd, I'll go out on a limb here and say that RB will become a more valuable player than Lloyd ever was for the Swans. At least he can hit a target (a long way away) and is creative with his disposal.....oh and he can pressure opponents and tackle as well. Lloyd is a rightful Swans 'near-legend' for his persistence and for making the most of his skills.....which let's be frank, are limited and not as good as what RB has to offer.

I understand you wished RB and Blakey 'good luck' in your last post but can't help thinking you'd rather see them fail so you can say 'told you so'. So some perspective would be helpful.....and maybe read NeonBible's post (#331) again.

[Ludwig]

But there you go again.....he is saying that all of our players deserve respect and all you can do is double down on your RB and Blakey bashing.

With all due respect to Lloyd, I'll go out on a limb here and say that RB will become a more valuable player than Lloyd ever was for the Swans. At least he can hit a target (a long way away) and is creative with his disposal.....oh and he can pressure opponents and tackle as well. Lloyd is a rightful Swans 'near-legend' for his persistence and for making the most of his skills.....which let's be frank, are limited and not as good as what RB has to offer.

I understand you wished RB and Blakey 'good luck' in your last post but can't help thinking you'd rather see them fail so you can say 'told you so'. So some perspective would be helpful.....and maybe read NeonBible's post (#331) again.

I think you are vastly undervaluing Lloyd's abilities and achievements. He is usually up near the top of the AFL leaderboard in kicks and metres gained. With the number of kicks he takes, you would expect a few to go astray. I don't think he would be trusted with the kick-ins if he wasn't an accurate kick. The coaches aren't that stupid.

I expect big things from RB, but he has a long way to go to match what Lloyd has achieved so far. There's no reason why both can't be considered talented players and significant contributors, each in his own way. One player doesn't have to be knocked down to lift up the other.

Lloyd was given the job of replacing Jetta. He\s not at all the speedster Jetta was, but I think Lloyd has been more effective in being the pivot man in taking the ball out of defence. Reules have changed and so has the personnel. We are now kicking long out of defence. diminishing Lloyd's bacline role. I think Lloyd can be moved to the midfield wing if need be, even it means to makes room for players like O'Riordan, Ling and Gould down the road.

I even mentioned that we could be in a position to let Lloyd seek a big contract at another club after his current contract expires in 2022 and he's 29 yo. Th is is more to do with age and other personnel than a reflection on Lloyd's abilities. Sometimes good players can be let go to rebalance the team.

[stevoswan]

I think you are vastly undervaluing Lloyd's abilities and achievements. He is usually up near the top of the AFL leaderboard in kicks and metres gained. With the number of kicks he takes, you would expect a few to go astray. I don't think he would be trusted with the kick-ins if he wasn't an accurate kick. The coaches aren't that stupid.

I expect big things from RB, but he has a long way to go to match what Lloyd has achieved so far. There's no reason why both can't be considered talented players and significant contributors, each in his own way. One player doesn't have to be knocked down to lift up the other.

Lloyd was given the job of replacing Jetta. He\s not at all the speedster Jetta was, but I think Lloyd has been more effective in being the pivot man in taking the ball out of defence. Reules have changed and so has the personnel. We are now kicking long out of defence. diminishing Lloyd's bacline role. I think Lloyd can be moved to the midfield wing if need be, even it means to makes room for players like O'Riordan, Ling and Gould down the road.

I even mentioned that we could be in a position to let Lloyd seek a big contract at another club after his current contract expires in 2022 and he's 29 yo. Th is is more to do with age and other personnel than a reflection on Lloyd's abilities. Sometimes good players can be let go to rebalance the team.

Mine is only a prediction and I do not seek to undervalue Lloyd. I do not want to see him dropped from our team, he is best 22 every day of the week (although I do think Dawson should take every kick in)....I just think RB has a potentially bigger future and I think most would agree that he has a better skill set than Lloyd, in a different role of course. I understand RB has a long way to go to reach Lloyd's legacy but think he will and more. I may be proven wrong but predictions have to start somewhere.

Having said that, if Lloyd were to be moved to the wing or even be let go in a late career move to free up salary cap space or for team/list balance, with our current list and some sensible recruiting/drafting I think we can comfortably cover what he offers the team.

[Ludwig]

If we don't take Paddy McCartin in the Midseason draft, how about this kid Abaina Davis. Heard great things about him (from a close member of my family).

https://www.facebook.com/SturtFootballClub/videos/388689375615935/

[liz]

If we don't take Paddy McCartin in the Midseason draft, how about this kid Abaina Davis. Heard great things about him (from a close member of my family).

https://www.facebook.com/SturtFootba...8689375615935/

He's certainly changed, facially, from a boy into a man. I don't think I'd have picked him from an array of pictures.

[Nico]

If we don't take Paddy McCartin in the Midseason draft, how about this kid Abaina Davis. Heard great things about him (from a close member of my family).

https://www.facebook.com/SturtFootba...8689375615935/

Would that be Ernst Ludwig.

[stevoswan]

I'm guessing this thread is appropriate for this topic....the length of quarters.....as it relates to player (list) management.

'It flies in the face of the way world sport's going': Chris Scott on longer quarters

With the Brisbane/Carlton game going for a lengthy 136 minutes, this topic is back in the news again. Chris Scott wants to return to 16 minute quarters, other coaches have suggested 18 minute quarters. As a fan, I prefer 20 minute quarters.....let's face it, they used to be 25 minutes + time on, but they didn't stop the clock for out of bounds then like they do now, so actual quarter lengths didn't reduce much when they went from 25m + T/O to 20m + T/O. I can understand that two and a quarter hours is a long time to be running around but I did not enjoy the shortened quarters last year so maybe the 18 minute 'compromise' is a good alternative.....or leave them at 20m and don't call time on for out of bounds? A return to higher interchange rotations might also be a consideration. What do you think?

[mcs]

I'm guessing this thread is appropriate for this topic....the length of quarters.....as it relates to player (list) management.

'It flies in the face of the way world sport's going': Chris Scott on longer quarters

With the Brisbane/Carlton game going for a lengthy 136 minutes, this topic is back in the news again. Chris Scott wants to return to 16 minute quarters, other coaches have suggested 18 minute quarters. As a fan, I prefer 20 minute quarters.....let's face it, they used to be 25 minutes + time on, but they didn't stop the clock for out of bounds then like they do now, so actual quarter lengths didn't reduce much when they went from 25m + T/O to 20m + T/O. I can understand that two and a quarter hours is a long time to be running around but I did not enjoy the shortened quarters last year so maybe the 18 minute 'compromise' is a good alternative.....or leave them at 20m and don't call time on for out of bounds? A return to higher interchange rotations might also be a consideration. What do you think?

As always, Chris Scott showing pure self interest for mine - while they are motoring along alright at the moment, he knows his Dad's army isn't suited by longer quarters and might just get found out later in the season because of it.

Leave it at 20 minutes and stop fiddling if you ask me. I don't get why plenty of other champions over the past 2 decades (recognising the huge increases in fitness that have occured through the more professional era) have managed to play on till a fair age, but suddenly now its a 'problem'. I don't buy it.

[dejavoodoo44]

The AFL site published an extended article on the upcoming midseason draft, which strangely didn't mention Paddy McCartin.

Inside Trading: Mid-season draft contenders, ex-Crows trio on radar

Which I suppose is a good thing, as a number of other clubs, are likely to have a pick prior to ours. Though of course, if he isn't on the radar of journalists, it doesn't mean that he's not on the radar of recruiters.

A recent discard of ours, Michael Knoll, is mentioned as being likely to be picked up: as he's getting plenty of hitouts, playing for Norwood in the SANFL.

[chalbilto]

From what I saw in the reserves match against the Suns, I think that the club should pick up Paddy McCartin in the mid season draft. He looked very classy and I presume would not cost the club a lot in terms of salary cap.

[barry]

A recent discard of ours, Michael Knoll, is mentioned as being likely to be picked up: as he's getting plenty of hitouts, playing for Norwood in the SANFL.

Didnt we pick up Grassy Knoll in the mid season draft a few years ago. Couldnt get a game ahead of sinkers, or even Allir in the ruck.
Who would pick him up ?

[stevoswan]

Didnt we pick up Grassy Knoll in the mid season draft a few years ago. Couldnt get a game ahead of sinkers, or even Allir in the ruck.
Who would pick him up ?

The Suns maybe.....with their bare tall stocks atm.....but in reality, probably no one. He had a chance to prove himself and didn't make the grade.....but then, other clubs may think they know more than the Swans?