Swans chat Academy uproar rears again

[KSAS]

I just missed Errol Gulden being interviewed on SEN as I only caught Dwayne Russell commenting on how a great interview it was (Looking forward to the podcast). But it caused the usual Vic reaction to our Academy with callers complaining we're getting an unfair advantage. This has now spilled over to Andy Mahr / Bod Murphy show who are further discussing our Academy. They will be interviewing Jared Crouch later in their show.

During his interview, Errol stressed he would've never got drafted if it wasn't for the Academy. I heard a few Swans supporters defending the Academy, with one caller who's son went through Academy stressing it's more than just trying to unearth good players as it also promotes the growth of Aussie Rules in NSW.

Errol's father rang in just before the end of Dwayne Russell's shift and added Errol would've been playing soccer if it wasn't for the Academy, eluding he would've followed in his older brother's footsteps who is talented in that sport.

There was even hypothetical suggestion whether the Academies will eventually have to follow the new NGA rules whereby clubs won't be able to match bids that come in the top 20. Sam Edmund said that won't be happening anytime soon.

These discussions will only further intensify if Gulden & Campbell have eye catching seasons and we tear up the ladder. This always rears it's ugly head whenever we threaten the competition as if our success is soley due to our Academy and our player development/recruiting gets sorely overlooked!

[TheBloods]

**** em

Did Jamarra, Isaac quaynor, Connor downie, Tarryn Thomas etc just come from nowhere ? Vic supporters would STFU then

[Thunder Shaker]

The Swans have lost dozens of players through the "go home" factor. The Academies are intended to counter this.

If the Academies are to be curtailed, the ones suggesting this must offer an alternative. Perhaps three-year trade bans for any club that has poached too many players from the northern clubs?

[stevoswan]

This is as totally predictable as it is pathetic. Vic media just can't handle interstate success, particularly from NSW and like trolls, feed the league every excuse to placate the jealous, 'soon to be wailing like Clarkson' masses in the heartland. Totally pathetic and petty......and counter productive to the leagues development in non footy states.....but let's face it, the Melbourne media don't care about this aspect as long as the heartland dominates. They don't have the intelligence or the will to see 'the big picture'.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

There was a RWO discussion about the anticipated backlash against the northern academies pre-season (after the NGA change), which included KSAS, TheBloods and Thunder Shaker's points.

General footy chat Horse was on Footy Classified - Page 3

Swans chat Our club: the Board, corporate structure and governance - Page 6

[liz]

I have some sneaky sympathy about access to the top end talent - ie I'm not sure (purely on the basis of draft equity, ignoring the fact the competition is far from a level playing field in other aspects) we should have been able to draft both Campbell and McDonald. But the fact we got Gulden at 32, and thus kept next year's draft currency intact, is purely down to the other clubs. I was staggered he lasted to 32.

Predictably, one of the first questions Horse was asked in his post-game interview was about the benefits the club has reaped from the academy system. His immediate answer was (paraphrased) " I should think so. It costs us a lot."

I'm also surprised by how little the football commentators seem to understand about how the academies are set up. Dermot commented during the broadcast that it was amazing that a player could be identified at age 10 as a potentially elite footy player. But of course that's not how it works. One hundred or so boys join the academy each year. Around 30 or so (maybe fewer this year) last beyond age 15. Of those, half a dozen might make it as far as the U18 Allies team in the National Championships. And one or two might then make it onto an AFL list. (More probably should, than have, but hopefully that will gradually change.)

Dermot has worked with the Giants so I am surprised he, of all commentators, isn't more knowledgeable.

[barracuda]

Perhaps the interstate clubs could get off their arses and take sydney talent more seriously. They have neglected the kids for too long and as a consequence academies are required. Imagine how many talented kids from sydney were overlooked, ignored over the years.

[barracuda]

I also think that academy kids have a strong loyalty to the academy, and a desire to do their part to promote the academy. Hence the comments by Gulden. In reality Heeney, Mills, Gulden, Campbell would have got drafted regardless. They were all in the national programs etc. Where the academy comes in, is to develop the kids like wicks, bell and sheather

[liz]

I also think that academy kids have a strong loyalty to the academy, and a desire to do their part to promote the academy. Hence the comments by Gulden. In reality Heeney, Mills, Gulden, Campbell would have got drafted regardless. They were all in the national programs etc. Where the academy comes in, is to develop the kids like wicks, bell and sheather

But they got into those national programmes on the basis of the development the academy provided them from age 11-15/16.

When those opposed to academies bemoan their existence, the best comeback I can think of is to ask them how many NSW boys from above the Barassi Line were drafted in the National Draft between McVeigh (in 2002) and Heeney (in 2014).

[Ruck'n'Roll]

I have some sneaky sympathy about access to the top end talent - ie I'm not sure (purely on the basis of draft equity, ignoring the fact the competition is far from a level playing field in other aspects) we should have been able to draft both Campbell and McDonald.

Right, that's the naughty corner for you Liz.
It will be a long time before the Academy compensates this club for losing Rhys-Jones, Capper, Mitchell, Evans, Goss, Teasedale, Morwood, Foschini, Daniher, Pitura, Walsh, Foschini, Rantall, Gull, Smith, Ackerly, Bedford, Frangalas, Stewart etc. etc.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

On a more serious note, as his dad is Turkish, so Errol (or Erol) may well have qualified under Next Gen Academy regulations.

[dejavoodoo44]

I have some sneaky sympathy about access to the top end talent - ie I'm not sure (purely on the basis of draft equity, ignoring the fact the competition is far from a level playing field in other aspects) we should have been able to draft both Campbell and McDonald. But the fact we got Gulden at 32, and thus kept next year's draft currency intact, is purely down to the other clubs. I was staggered he lasted to 32.

Predictably, one of the first questions Horse was asked in his post-game interview was about the benefits the club has reaped from the academy system. His immediate answer was (paraphrased) " I should think so. It costs us a lot."

I'm also surprised by how little the football commentators seem to understand about how the academies are set up. Dermot commented during the broadcast that it was amazing that a player could be identified at age 10 as a potentially elite footy player. But of course that's not how it works. One hundred or so boys join the academy each year. Around 30 or so (maybe fewer this year) last beyond age 15. Of those, half a dozen might make it as far as the U18 Allies team in the National Championships. And one or two might then make it onto an AFL list. (More probably should, than have, but hopefully that will gradually change.)

Dermot has worked with the Giants so I am surprised he, of all commentators, isn't more knowledgeable.

Yes, there was almost the insinuation, that the academy was something like a soviet era institution, where talented ten years olds were sent to be modelled into footballing automatons. Whether they liked it or not. Rather than the reality, of kids getting an extra few hours of footy practice, with some quality coaches, while they continue to play for their regular team during football season.

[KTigers]

Yes, there was almost the insinuation, that the academy was something like a soviet era institution, where talented ten years olds were sent to be modelled into footballing automatons. Whether they liked it or not. Rather than the reality, of kids getting an extra few hours of footy practice, with some quality coaches, while they continue to play for their regular team during football season.

C'mon, we can let reality get in the way of a good old fashioned southern footy media beat-up.

[Scottee]

I have some sneaky sympathy about access to the top end talent - ie I'm not sure (purely on the basis of draft equity, ignoring the fact the competition is far from a level playing field in other aspects) we should have been able to draft both Campbell and McDonald. But the fact we got Gulden at 32, and thus kept next year's draft currency intact, is purely down to the other clubs. I was staggered he lasted to 32.

Predictably, one of the first questions Horse was asked in his post-game interview was about the benefits the club has reaped from the academy system. His immediate answer was (paraphrased) " I should think so. It costs us a lot."

I'm also surprised by how little the football commentators seem to understand about how the academies are set up. Dermot commented during the broadcast that it was amazing that a player could be identified at age 10 as a potentially elite footy player. But of course that's not how it works. One hundred or so boys join the academy each year. Around 30 or so (maybe fewer this year) last beyond age 15. Of those, half a dozen might make it as far as the U18 Allies team in the National Championships. And one or two might then make it onto an AFL list. (More probably should, than have, but hopefully that will gradually change.)

Dermot has worked with the Giants so I am surprised he, of all commentators, isn't more knowledgeable.

I have absolutely no sympathy. Trying to draw equivalence between the dodgy NGAs and the Swans Academy is an exercise in fraud. There is no comparison between what the Swans Academy and the NGAs. How many players have they actually developed? How many have they actually converted to the sport? Differentiating players based on their parentage/nationality should have nothing to do with it. They typically like to forget that AFL is the dominant sport in Victoria by a mile. It is the most contrived system possible to give Victorian Clubs an unfair advantage in obtaining players that would have ben drafted even if the NGAs did not exist.

The northern clubs have every right (and need) to run proper academies and not be penalised for it. The AFL must not be swayed by the parochialism of the Vic clubs. The norther clubs are not exactly dominating the competition as yet (Lions success is on the back of years of bottom finishes, the Giants success is based on concessions that have ceased and their success may not last very long, as for the Suns ) . Perhaps they had better wait until there is a clear imbalance with the northern clubs dominating before getting concerned about the competition. If the northern clubs do start dominating then they have achieved one of their main objectives of growing the game.

[Bangalore Swans]

Many people from Victoria seem to think the Academies are endless pots of gold.

They overlook the fact that the academy’s can force the clubs into some political choices as opposed to pure football talent.

1) Non serious bids. Years ago a 2nd round bid was made by Fremantle on Jack Hiscox an academy prospect. I don’t think many people thought Hiscox was 2nd round standard. The Swans matched the bid to keep the faith in the academy system. Hiscox was let go two years later and the 2nd round pick was a bust. The Swans were forced into that decision to maintain the faith for upcoming academy players like Mills, Blakey, Guldon and Campbell.

2) The academy process compels the Swans to draft AFL level talent regardless of positional needs. At the end of this year the Swans may need a young ruckman, a tall defender and an inside midfielder. The AFL standard players available to draft may be two flankers. The Swans would be compelled to draft the two flankers and not draft for positional needs. The Swans already have plenty of flankers.

3) We lose non Academy players due to backing academy players. We prioritised Heeney and Mills over Tom Mitchell. We lost Tom Mitchell as a result. We are currently backing Campbell, Blakey and Guldon ahead of Dylan Stephen’s. Without the presence of Blakey, Guldon and Campbell there would be more opportunity for Stephen’s to play his preferred position.