Round 7 prematch thread - vs Brisbane at the SCG, Sunday 4.40 PM

[111431]

I feel that Florent is talented but not consistent enough. Needs a kick up the pants to tell him to get his act together. He's a good, reliable player to come on as sub if need be. I can't quite bring myself to demote JPK to the ressies at this stage. Having Reid in the side gives us flexibility to move the magnets around if things aren't working the way we'd like and he's good at defending and applying pressure.

Gould ahead of Melican is a big call but I'd love to give him a chance and debuting him in our home game gives him a great opportunity. Rampe will have to step up in Paddy's absence.

JPK seemed to be the one who helped turn the game around for us yesterday. He may not be quick but he knows how to find the ball and use it well. Need to find a spot for him in the 22

[bloodspirit]

With all that off my chest:
Outs: PMcCartain, McDonald, Bell
Ins: Reid, Papley /Wicks, JPK Sub Gould

Don't give someone their debut as 23rd man.

Plus, I think it is better for a debutant like Gould (young but not a total neophyte) to get a whole game rather than come in to plug a hole when someone is injured. I'd rather have an experienced journeyman (think Fox, Squizzy, COR etc) to do that sort of a job - to be able to give that role to JPK is a real luxury for us. But it's not fair to JPK to do it too many weeks in a row. This week, playing a major rival and contender, I think JPK should get a whole game, and not in the reserves. Deciding who to leave out for him is the hard part. It probably won't be Florent but I do think Olly needs a strong message to work on his consistency.

[Bloods05]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. ????

It's the vibe.

[O'Reilly Boy]

Yep, I was wrong on JPK. Changed the match for us yesterday. I think that he comes back into the starting 22 for McCartin Snr.I do agree with Ludwig that he is at his very best when a bit of the pace has gone off the game and he can just muscle the close stuff—the rest of the mids and HBs have shown that they have the legs to run out games strongly, so a muscle- rather than pace-injection in the sub role is not a bad option. (although it also feels that we are moving towards gaming the medi-sub model, reverting to the discarded sub rule).

I'm also thinking Reid in for McDonald. Papley for Bell.

This is a change in my thinking about the forward set-up. I like a dedicated pressure forward, but think that I'd like to see Papley and Ronke covering the small roles.

The back six balance shifts a bit too—I'm thinking about Kennedy and Reid as rotations, with McInernery also able to swing back if we need it.


Lloyd McCartin Cunningham
Blakey Rampe Campbell

McInerney Mills Florent
Ladhams Parker Warner

Papley Franklin Hayward
Ronke McLean Heeney

Gulden Rowbottom Kennedy Reid

I think that the questions around Rampe, Lloyd and Cunningham are interesting and worth asking, although it is maybe too soon to be ringing the alarm bells. I would like to see Gould get a run, just so that we can see what he is about, but I'm also thinking that this week might not be the right week for a debut. Then again, I gather he plays a similar intercept game to McCartin, so I could live with him coming in instead of Reid. We can cover the Reid rotation through the forward line with Parker and even Kennedy.

[Bangalore Swans]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. ????

I didn’t say drop him. I would swing RB to medical sub. That’s still counted as a game.

He certainly found the football but I don’t think his ball use was good. Look at Callam Mills. Im guessing that over 95% of his possessions were effective. To get fully behind RB I needed him to go back and slot that 40m goal in the last quarter. Why not do what Chad did? Two 2nd half goals that were important. RB kicked that shot out on the full.

The battle is Rowbotton v Kennedy. Chad, Mills, Parker, Florent, J-Mac and Heeney are not being dropped.

Who do you want in the one position Red and White?

Kennedy or Rowbottom?

[bloodspirit]

Yep, I was wrong on JPK. Changed the match for us yesterday. I think that he comes back into the starting 22 for McCartin Snr.I do agree with Ludwig that he is at his very best when a bit of the pace has gone off the game and he can just muscle the close stuff—the rest of the mids and HBs have shown that they have the legs to run out games strongly, so a muscle- rather than pace-injection in the sub role is not a bad option. (although it also feels that we are moving towards gaming the medi-sub model, reverting to the discarded sub rule).

I'm also thinking Reid in for McDonald. Papley for Bell.

This is a change in my thinking about the forward set-up. I like a dedicated pressure forward, but think that I'd like to see Papley and Ronke covering the small roles.

The back six balance shifts a bit too—I'm thinking about Kennedy and Reid as rotations, with McInernery also able to swing back if we need it.


Lloyd McCartin Cunningham
Blakey Rampe Campbell

McInerney Mills Florent
Ladhams Parker Warner

Papley Franklin Hayward
Ronke McLean Heeney

Gulden Rowbottom Kennedy Reid

I think that the questions around Rampe, Lloyd and Cunningham are interesting and worth asking, although it is maybe too soon to be ringing the alarm bells. I would like to see Gould get a run, just so that we can see what he is about, but I'm also thinking that this week might not be the right week for a debut. Then again, I gather he plays a similar intercept game to McCartin, so I could live with him coming in instead of Reid. We can cover the Reid rotation through the forward line with Parker and even Kennedy.

Good line-up and makes sense but I'm not sure about JPK as a defender and if we put him somewhere else that really shakes up our defensive balance as a team.

I need to watch a replay of yesterday's match to get a better sense of how we covered McCartin's departure and where JPK spent his time while he was on the field - was he exclusively on-ball or did he go back or forward too? Did anyone else pay attention to this?

[O'Reilly Boy]

Good line-up and makes sense but I'm not sure about JPK as a defender and if we put him somewhere else that really shakes up our defensive balance as a team.

I need to watch a replay of yesterday's match to get a better sense of how we covered McCartin's departure and where JPK spent his time while he was on the field - was he exclusively on-ball or did he go back or forward too? Did anyone else pay attention to this?

Played in the guts and with great vision—his kicking was as good as I've seen it, including a great passage at the end of he game where he chased his own kick out of halfback, received the inboard hand pass and kicked across field to an open McInenerny who played on and goaled. Granted, it was junk time, but it was great to see him playing with that freedom to run.

I'm not convinced by him as a long-term HB, but see value in him playing at the SCG this weekend, perhaps with the option of pushing forward rather than back for the rotations. That would free up Reid to swing back in defence.

[Ludwig]

Out backline isn't as well coordinated this year as it has been in the past. Perhaps it's because Paddy, Blakey and Campbell are relative newcomers to the back 7 and we haven't quite worked out the coverage when the opposition are flooding forward from everywhere. We are leaving far too much space to run into. It was pointed out in Access All Areas how Rampe was trying to get Chad to cover space in front of a leading forward, but to no avail. It seems a small thing, but the kind of thing that makes a difference between a top 4 team and the others. We should improve in this area as time goes on, but we have to realise that we are still a work in progress.

Perhaps this is a partial reason why Lloyd and Cunningham may not appear to be at their best this year. Maybe they have an eye on covering holes left in the defence by others. Blakey has been great, he has the height, but is not the best at defending. However, I feel he will be just fine with experience.

It too hard to analyze this stuff from afar. I'm just speculating with the aid of a few incidents. I'm keen to see Gould come into the side even though he might find it tough going against a top team like Brisbane. We are still a group that needs to experiment and find more options across the ground. I would like a premiership as much as the next fan, but recognize we still have to build in the right direction.

The unexpected addition of Ronke could be one more piece in the puzzle and we have to keep looking for these.

Without a VFL game this past week, we might have to look at training to find selections this week. Both Robert and Amartey, who have played well, should be out of concussion protocols. COR is over his eye injury and should also be available. It they train well, they might come into the picture, although we can find replacements for Paddy and Logan without them.

I know JPK played well when he came into the game, but we should consider that it was at a time when Hawthorn had already stopped running and he didn't have to run down any players. He's an excellent 2nd half option and remain as such.

[Faunac8]

I didn’t say drop him. I would swing RB to medical sub. That’s still counted as a game.

He certainly found the football but I don’t think his ball use was good. Look at Callam Mills. Im guessing that over 95% of his possessions were effective. To get fully behind RB I needed him to go back and slot that 40m goal in the last quarter. Why not do what Chad did? Two 2nd half goals that were important. RB kicked that shot out on the full.

The battle is Rowbotton v Kennedy. Chad, Mills, Parker, Florent, J-Mac and Heeney are not being dropped.

Who do you want in the one position Red and White?

Kennedy or Rowbottom?

Disposal efficiency was poor from Rowbottom nowhere near Callum at 91% but on a par in the 60’s with Chad and Jake, who really should have given how he usually has plenty of time pick his options.
He also had a few turnovers as well so I will accept that it was not his best game in the jumper but he did the job expected and did it well.
Why not do what Chad did you wonder well maybe he has a different role and isn’t expected to score goals the way an attacking midfielder would and to be fair Chad owed the team a goal after his lack of attention in the first quarter.
Why are you so sure that none of the players you named will be dropped ? In fact of the group named I would think Ollie is under the most scrutiny.
In regard to having to choose between James and Josh I genuinely think they are both important cogs and I suspect we will continue to find a way to have both players in the match day squads moving forward.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

You know you are fighting a losing battle when a player has these stats:
11 contested possessions ( 3rd equal with Chad for Swans )
7 inside 50’s (3rd )
450 metres gained (4th)
6 tackles (1st equal with Will)
8 clearances ( 1st )
And still it isn’t enough for some who focus on a fifteen minute period where like most of his teammates he didn’t play to an acceptable level.
Sorry BS you don’t drop a player who is working that hard. ????

The metres gained 4th is a misnomer, because it includes Lloyd, the majority of whose metres gained begins 10 metres from goal (every time the opposition scores a point).

The thing I like about Rowbottom is his ability to get down and dirty, scrap and disrupt the oppositions play. I think Paul Roos would definitely declare him to be a blue collar midfielder. Not likely to become a Rolls Royce, but perhaps a quad bike, both have their place?

[royboy42]

Yep, I was wrong on JPK. Changed the match for us yesterday. I think that he comes back into the starting 22 for McCartin Snr.I do agree with Ludwig that he is at his very best when a bit of the pace has gone off the game and he can just muscle the close stuff—the rest of the mids and HBs have shown that they have the legs to run out games strongly, so a muscle- rather than pace-injection in the sub role is not a bad option. (although it also feels that we are moving towards gaming the medi-sub model, reverting to the discarded sub rule).

I'm also thinking Reid in for McDonald. Papley for Bell.

This is a change in my thinking about the forward set-up. I like a dedicated pressure forward, but think that I'd like to see Papley and Ronke covering the small roles.

The back six balance shifts a bit too—I'm thinking about Kennedy and Reid as rotations, with McInernery also able to swing back if we need it.


Lloyd McCartin Cunningham
Blakey Rampe Campbell

McInerney Mills Florent
Ladhams Parker Warner

Papley Franklin Hayward
Ronke McLean Heeney

Gulden Rowbottom Kennedy Reid

I think that the questions around Rampe, Lloyd and Cunningham are interesting and worth asking, although it is maybe too soon to be ringing the alarm bells. I would like to see Gould get a run, just so that we can see what he is about, but I'm also thinking that this week might not be the right week for a debut. Then again, I gather he plays a similar intercept game to McCartin, so I could live with him coming in instead of Reid. We can cover the Reid rotation through the forward line with Parker and even Kennedy.

You put it all out there ORB. Almost exactly the way I see things at the moment.
Saved me typing.
Thanks , mate.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

And if we're going to condemn players for missing shots at goal, in the 2nd quarter we were converting at 14% FFS - and didn't one of Chads not even register a behind?

It's just silly

[liz]

And if we're going to condemn players for missing shots at goal, in the 2nd quarter we were converting at 14% FFS - and didn't one of Chads not even register a behind?

It's just silly

Not sure that was Chad. Certainly Rowbottom kicked one OOBOTF. There was another (at least) but can't sort out in my memory those that missed completely and those that fell short. Ladhams, McDonald and McLean all had ugly shots at one point. Ronke and Bud shots you'd expect them to convert.

Chad's goal (his first) seemed to be the settler. Before then, no-one could get one through. Afterwards, barely anyone missed.

[Aprilbr]

The more I think about this game and the formidable forward line we are coming up against, the more the loss of McCartin hurts. Daniher and McStay are great, in-form targets. T. McCartin and Rampe definitely need help. Its a matter of which of Gould, Reid or or the Pelican do we go for? Its a serious dilemma for the match committee to ponder.

On SEN radio today they were debating the future for Paddy. Given the nature of the game and the way he plays, he will continue to gather knocks. Its a bit like a ticking time bomb. We don't want to see him end up like the boxer who had one too many fights. He is such an asset and is clearly desperate to play. So there is a real ethical and potentially legal dilemma here for the club and our doctors to consider. Apoarently, one of the ex-players at the WCE, Venables, is suing the Club for millions for concussion-related issues. Also, his family needs to be confident about the future. Does he need to be saved from himself?

[stevoswan]

Outs - Logan, Paddy, Bell, Rowbottom

Ins - Reid, Gould, Papley, Kennedy

Rowbottom - Medical Sub

Goulds time has come. Melican has had plenty of chances and Gould has done his time.

Palpley for Bell is obvious. If not Papley then Wicks.

Rowbottom distribution was poor against the Hawks. I’m not sure how much extra that Rowbottom would give that Kennedy couldn’t give. Kennedy was great in the last quarter against the Hawks, used the ball well and has played his way into the team.

It's not going to happen. Not even TB is dropping RB for JPK Banga. I agree with JPK in but not at RB's expense.