Round 7 prematch thread - vs Brisbane at the SCG, Sunday 4.40 PM

[liz]

He mentions Reg took 5 years on our list to debut so we could be waiting a long time to see Gould at AFL level............

Except that Reg didn't take five years to debut. He debuted in round 16 2006, after being drafted in the 2005 Rookie Draft (which is confusingly labelled because I'm pretty sure it was in the off-season between 2004 and 2005, not at the end of 2005). So he debuted less than two years after being taken as a rookie.

I interpreted Longmire's comments as swatting away enquiries on why Gould hasn't yet debuted, rather than consigning him to an extended further period in the VFL. That doesn't mean he is going to play this week (or soon), but Longmire didn't rule it out. He was just his typical noncommittal (evasive?) self.

He did, of course, then take quite a while to establish himself as a regular senior player.

[rickmat]

Hard to.see Melican come into the side as his form in the VFL has been poor, in fact Gould has been much better. But Horse's comments put Melican in the frame. If he does, no way can he play CHB, just not good enough.and his touch is not there as yet this season

[Hotpotato]

I’m hoping Sam Reid returns as he was playing very well and seemed to be the missing link to take some essential grabs in the forward half last week against the Hawks early when we were just pinpoint kicking to their backs.

[Ludwig]

Hard to.see Melican come into the side as his form in the VFL has been poor, in fact Gould has been much better. But Horse's comments put Melican in the frame. If he does, no way can he play CHB, just not good enough.and his touch is not there as yet this season

Longmire is very conservative with his selections and is even less likely to play a debutante in a game against a top side like Brisbane. I agree that Gould has been better than Melican in the VFL, but Melican most likely to get the nod.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'd be very surprised if the AFL allowed that. Even if he wasn't actually concussed, it blurs the line for other players. And in McCartin's case, I'd be surprised if the club even went that route. His long term health is more important than us being down one defender in a football game.

.

This is the correct take. The fact he is failed the test, the AFL won’t let it be gamed, and his history demands a cautious approach.

It’s also worth remembering how fast this has moved. There was an article today saying it used to be the players call, then a doctors instinct, then etc etc to where we are today with the 12 day break. There are now doctors pushing for a month. That change, just in five years.

Some of the stories coming out of what concussion does to past players on an ongoing basis are horrific. Everyone is right to be prudent about this and his health. If it costs us a game, bad luck.

And good on Horse, who is heavily invested in the mental health of players, for giving the media a clip.

[Faunac8]

This is the correct take. The fact he is failed the test, the AFL won’t let it be gamed, and his history demands a cautious approach.

It’s also worth remembering how fast this has moved. There was an article today saying it used to be the players call, then a doctors instinct, then etc etc to where we are today with the 12 day break. There are now doctors pushing for a month. That change, just in five years.

Some of the stories coming out of what concussion does to past players on an ongoing basis are horrific. Everyone is right to be prudent about this and his health. If it costs us a game, bad luck.

And good on Horse, who is heavily invested in the mental health of players, for giving the media a clip.

Well said IU2 the duty of care needle has definitely moved over recent years.
Players spend a lot more of their life after footy living in society and anyone who has interacted with an ex boxer or rugby player for example will tell you that many of them have definitely suffered damage to some degree.
I am very happy to see the recent emphasis on protecting players from head injuries.

[TheBloods]

Well said IU2 the duty of care needle has definitely moved over recent years.
Players spend a lot more of their life after footy living in society and anyone who has interacted with an ex boxer or rugby player for example will tell you that many of them have definitely suffered damage to some degree.
I am very happy to see the recent emphasis on protecting players from head injuries.

Not just that , they are better at preparing them for life after footy as a whole . i know of a fair few former champions who absolutely lost it once their playing days were over , this was back in the days when an outstanding career in the VFL was only half a dozen or so years . Some of them would be wrapped up by 27/28 , no clue what to do with their life , no money to their name as they 'd pissed it all away on drink while they were listed . Now they go to university , get a trade , whatever . Much better

[Bloods05]

Not just that , they are better at preparing them for life after footy as a whole . i know of a fair few former champions who absolutely lost it once their playing days were over , this was back in the days when an outstanding career in the VFL was only half a dozen or so years . Some of them would be wrapped up by 27/28 , no clue what to do with their life , no money to their name as they 'd pissed it all away on drink while they were listed . Now they go to university , get a trade , whatever . Much better

Even the greats. Poor old Ron Clegg was a classic example.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Not just that , they are better at preparing them for life after footy as a whole . i know of a fair few former champions who absolutely lost it once their playing days were over , this was back in the days when an outstanding career in the VFL was only half a dozen or so years . Some of them would be wrapped up by 27/28 , no clue what to do with their life , no money to their name as they 'd pissed it all away on drink while they were listed . Now they go to university , get a trade , whatever . Much better

Very true. The Swans were one of the first to take this stuff seriously, though partly due to the fact that they had so many interstate players and needed to look after them, or show their families they could. I think it was Phil Mullins that had the early versions of what we’d call a player welfare role in the 90s.

Every player had to do something outside footy, it could be moving lawns, or picking your nose for a living.

It would be unsophisticated by todays standards but it was the right principle at play. But when I was lucky to meet him and a few others at the Swans years back they described it as there being two rules - we will help you educate and train yourself for a life after/besides footy, and we will teach you how to manage money.

[Aaron]

Just checked the record, Heath Grundy was drafted #42 in the 2005 Rookie Draft. He debuted aged 20 years and 50 days as a FORWARD against Richmond in R16 of 2006. He played 6 games in 2006, 8 games in 2007 and 10 games in 2008. Then he became a regular from 2009 and established as a KPD after Craig Bolton/ LRT were injured. So perhaps Horse was trying to say that he took "5 Years" to establish as a reliable KPD.

BTW Sometimes Horse has not been reluctant to debute players, particularly in more recent seasons. Just in R1 of last year, we had THREE debutants - Errol Gulden, Logan McDonald and Braeden Campbell who all starred in our defeating the Lions by 31 points !!! I don't think we will field a lesser team this time. Go Swans.

[Markwebbos]

Lots of information in this article. Papley expected to return, Reid and Melican in the mix. No timeline for Hickey but is ahead of schedule. Gould won't be ready for a while.

Also some well-chosen words from Longmire on player privacy and medical speculation.

‘Jumping to conclusions’: Swans coach unhappy with ‘invasive’ McCartin vision

The nine article is quite ambiguously written. Some clarity from the Swans website;

Key Quotes: John Longmire Press Conference

Although it’s contradictory about Gould

[Aprilbr]

Just a clarification on Paddy's concussion test. What the doctors do is test a player's cognitive function after a knock by asking them a pre-determined set of questions that they should know the answers to. If they get these answers correct, and they are not feeling dizzy, unwell etc then they are said to have passed the test. From what I read, Paddy was feeling fine but got one or more of the questions wrong. He claims it was due to nervousness in answering them. The doctors took a more cautious view and "failed" him. I think they did the correct thing in the circumstances.

[KSAS]

On AFL360 tonight they showed Longmire's presser today re Paddy's concussion. I was disappointed with Whately's reaction who seemed to be critizing our club's attitude toward's Paddy's concussion, when he remarked that he hoped we're not being flippant by implying Paddy missing a week will be right again, considering his history and where AFL has come from recently dealing with tragic cases. Glad Robbo pointed out to Whately that he had no doubt whatsoever the Swans are giving Paddy the very best care possible, iterating club doctors love their players to ensure their health comes first. I thought Robbo then made a good point, saying Longmire's remarks at today's presser was also possibly for Paddy's mental health considering his distressed reaction in change room upon failing concussion test.

[Nico]

Just checked the record, Heath Grundy was drafted #42 in the 2005 Rookie Draft. He debuted aged 20 years and 50 days as a FORWARD against Richmond in R16 of 2006. He played 6 games in 2006, 8 games in 2007 and 10 games in 2008. Then he became a regular from 2009 and established as a KPD after Craig Bolton/ LRT were injured. So perhaps Horse was trying to say that he took "5 Years" to establish as a reliable KPD.

BTW Sometimes Horse has not been reluctant to debute players, particularly in more recent seasons. Just in R1 of last year, we had THREE debutants - Errol Gulden, Logan McDonald and Braeden Campbell who all starred in our defeating the Lions by 31 points !!! I don't think we will field a lesser team this time. Go Swans.

Grundy was probably one of the greatest "drifters" in draft history. From memory he was expected to be a reasonably high draft pick. I remember him playing a pre season game in the forward line and thinking what a steal of a pick up he was. Imagine his relief when he finally got picked up at 42 in the Rookie Draft.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Finally got around to watching Horse's presser. Wouldn't be surprised if he trains well next day or so if Hickey comes in for Logan. Horse does a pretty good poker face, but there was a little glint in his eye when discussing Hickey's prospects. Of course, the real body language experts on here may have a different view.