Round 8 pre-match thread - v Suns 1:45 PM Saturday @ SCG

[TheBloods]

Also laid 10 tackles. Played the first quarter forward, ball never went there. Moved to the mids in the second and stopped the mid field rot. Swans came back in the second. Third and fourth it looked like the cramping issue came back.

I think the issue is physical.

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Can I ask how you know this? Are you a friend or relative? You seem to be a big fan?

he is behind Paps Ronke Wicks Bell as a small fwd , its crowded . Coaches love his attack and use of the body so will try fit him in defence . We saw the same with Gus , they love him as a mid but he couldnt get a look in so trained him as a small fwd.

& yes im a fan , some players have it others don 't . Sheather has got it .

[COB]

he is behind Paps Ronke Wicks Bell as a small fwd , its crowded . Coaches love his attack and use of the body so will try fit him in defence . We saw the same with Gus , they love him as a mid but he couldnt get a look in so trained him as a small fwd.

& yes im a fan , some players have it others don 't . Sheather has got it .

I like the idea of him being tried in defence but wouldn't mind if he also had a go on the midfield. We have enough medium/small forwards. Also gives him and us more versatility.

[Faunac8]

There hasn't been much criticism of RB, but what there has been is reminiscent of the criticism of George Hewett at around the same stage of his career. Back then, many were calling for him to be dropped. Now they're crying that he was traded to Carlton. Just for statistical comparison, RB is doing better than Ollie Florent at the same age in just about every category, and is about even to slightly better than Hewett at the same age. Just something to think about.

Good luck with that ???? I have found that using facts and statistics to show how well RB is progressing is not received well on here by some.

[TheBloods]

Good luck with that ???? I have found that using facts and statistics to show how well RB is progressing is not received well on here by some.

Why are you starting

[Aprilbr]

Looking at our potential inclusions for this week (Hickey, McCartin and McDonald), we are close to having our best side available. This is a rare occurrence. Only player likely to be missing from our Best 23 is Harry. No excuses against the Suns - a great way to celebrate the presence of most of our 2012 Premiership team at the game too!

[Bangalore Swans]

I’m surprised that there is no support for my idea for Rampe to have a managed week off. He is horribly out of touch and something needs to be done to assist him in finding form.

[Ludwig]

I’m surprised that there is no support for my idea for Rampe to have a managed week off. He is horribly out of touch and something needs to be done to assist him in finding form.

Great idea Banga!

When I'm out of form, I take a vacation. Taking time away from the job is good way to solve just about any kind of problem. Come back in a month or two refreshed and ready for a restart.

[Goal Sneak]

Great idea Banga!

When I'm out of form, I take a vacation. Taking time away from the job is good way to solve just about any kind of problem. Come back in a month or two refreshed and ready for a restart.

Yeah!!! In my experience, there's always plenty of competent people who will more than adequately cover for you while you're away

[royboy42]

I’m surprised that there is no support for my idea for Rampe to have a managed week off. He is horribly out of touch and something needs to be done to assist him in finding form.

Holy Mother of God! Save me.

[O'Reilly Boy]

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this? From what I read, O'Reilly Boy was essentially saying he'd be happy for James to be dropped.

I think that I try to approach these things in terms of balance and structure, rather than individuals. I also know that Horse likes his pressure forwards—a role that is pretty thankless, doesn't attract much screen time, and is underacknowledged in stats.
It may well be that going forward Papley and Ronke are the best options as small forward. They bring dynamism, crumbing and goals, but I wonder whether they fit the pressure forward role, which involves sacrificing the aspects of the game which make them dynamic playmakers. They get to the fall of the ball, win their own ball, and have the acceleration to create a bit of space away from the contest to receive and to create scoreboard impact. That is not the same, however, as covering 120 square metres of open space to close off options on the fat side, or to make the call to get up in a back pocket's face to pressure a kick. Perhaps I'm wrong on this analysis. Last week Papley was underdone, and Ronke looked a little lost, and the result was relatively easy exits for Brisbane.
On the other side of the ledger, I think that Hayward has been improving, although his role is quite different, getting a long way up the ground.

On Rowbottom: again, for me the issue is balance, and just at this point in time I'm leaning towards having Kennedy in the middle. I love the idea of him as medi-sub to give us his power towards the end of the game, but relying on a game-ending injury to bring him on does not seem to be good management. It just comes down to my reluctance to play Parker, Kennedy, Rowbottom and Mills in the same rotation.

[barracuda]

I think that I try to approach these things in terms of balance and structure, rather than individuals. I also know that Horse likes his pressure forwards—a role that is pretty thankless, doesn't attract much screen time, and is underacknowledged in stats.
It may well be that going forward Papley and Ronke are the best options as small forward. They bring dynamism, crumbing and goals, but I wonder whether they fit the pressure forward role, which involves sacrificing the aspects of the game which make them dynamic playmakers. They get to the fall of the ball, win their own ball, and have the acceleration to create a bit of space away from the contest to receive and to create scoreboard impact. That is not the same, however, as covering 120 square metres of open space to close off options on the fat side, or to make the call to get up in a back pocket's face to pressure a kick. Perhaps I'm wrong on this analysis. Last week Papley was underdone, and Ronke looked a little lost, and the result was relatively easy exits for Brisbane.
On the other side of the ledger, I think that Hayward has been improving, although his role is quite different, getting a long way up the ground.

On Rowbottom: again, for me the issue is balance, and just at this point in time I'm leaning towards having Kennedy in the middle. I love the idea of him as medi-sub to give us his power towards the end of the game, but relying on a game-ending injury to bring him on does not seem to be good management. It just comes down to my reluctance to play Parker, Kennedy, Rowbottom and Mills in the same rotation.

Interesting analysis. Ronke is pretty similar to Papley with a bent towards attacking rather than defending. Arguably this could cause the Swans some issues with opposition teams rebounding out of the forward fifty and scoring. The other side of the coin however is where the swans midfield is at. Last year the midfield really benefited from the defensive forwards who held the ball in and gave the mids a chance to reset and regroup. This year it is possible that the mids are slightly stronger reducing the need for the defensive forward. If that is the case then the Ronke/Papley attacking combination becomes very powerful. There is always the argument that the defensive forward work be shared across the forward group. However as you rightly point out there is a distinct structural need for defensive players to sacrifice their attacking game to block space and apply pressure. The papleys and ronkes and the tall forwards will always find this very difficult to coordinate.

[bloodspirit]

Ronke has a history of making a lot of tackles, and he's very quick off the mark. Both of these things tend to make me think he is really good at applying defensive pressure. Papley is also quick and can apply excellent pressure but doesn't tend to tackle as much and so I can see his offensive orientation more clearly. I'm not ready to write off Ronke's ability to be the pressure small forward but he needs to get better, especially to become consistent.

[Goal Sneak]

Some great posts here this morning from O'Reilly Boy, barracuda and bloodspirit. I really like the point barracuda makes regarding the strength of our mids and how that may affect the requirements of the forward line. This in turn ties in beautifully with O'Reilly Boy's approach of team balance and structure over individuals.

Horse has (in the past) been reluctant to make unforced changes, especially if the team was coming off a win. I'd like to see us start selecting the team each week based more on our needs for the upcoming opposition. This can be fraught with danger as you can risk chopping and changing too much and risk team cohesion, it needs to be carried out diligently.

The way I see it, with Kennedy and Rowbottom, they are more or less in direct competition for a spot on the team. Joey is on the decline whereas James has it all in front of him. James has been given the opportunity to step up this year. So far, I don't think he has. This is not to say he won't. This is where George Hewitt would be so useful right now. He would've been primed to take over from Joey and bridge the gap between Kennedy and Rowbottom. Without George, we're forced to choose between someone whose best is behind him and someone who isn't quite ready.

[AB Swannie]

The way I see it, with Kennedy and Rowbottom, they are more or less in direct competition for a spot on the team. Joey is on the decline whereas James has it all in front of him. James has been given the opportunity to step up this year. So far, I don't think he has. This is not to say he won't. This is where George Hewitt would be so useful right now. He would've been primed to take over from Joey and bridge the gap between Kennedy and Rowbottom. Without George, we're forced to choose between someone whose best is behind him and someone who isn't quite ready.

Kennedy - the best is behind him
Rowbottom - the best is in front of him
Hewett - the best is now

Interesting list management decisions that suggest that maybe the Swans see our best chance as being in 2023 or 2024? I would think that the $$$ played a decent part in the decision too. Hewett is reportedly on $450k+. Rowbottom would be half of that. The different moving parts of list management must make it so hard to time everything beautifully.

[bloodspirit]

Yes, losing Hewett is a significant loss - but one we chose and clearly decided we could cover. Perhaps we made the decision when we thought we would retain Dawson and by the time we learned Dawson would leave, George was already committed to Carlton. Dawson's loss is significant. His experience and more seasoned body would have been invaluable to us this year. Anyway, that's the past. We have covered Dawson's kicking with so many excellent kicks in the team, and we have brought in the likes of Sheldrick, Roberts and Sheather who can hopefully play that hard-man role in the future. But it's not a solution for this season. We just have to do the best we can with JPK, RB etc.