Round 10 v Carlton @ Marvel Stadium

[Maltopia]

End of the day the list isnt good enough and we have to keep at it . Its ok to have Wicks Bell Ronke Rowbottom O'Riordan etc on the list and to play them every now and then with injuries etc but if they are getting games every week it just shows the depth of talent on our list isnt there . Those names will never be part of a flag winning team. No shame in that but sooner we wake up to it the better we will be as we can try others instead and hope for better luck with them .

And by the way i defended Wicks as i see what his role is all about and he was pretty good at doing it . But its a basic role and if he cant do it every week then hes not the answer .

Well let's look at our 2012 premiership team.

I don't think Mummy, Pike and Bird were in the top half of players (of those who played 10+ games that season) in the league in their position. Where would Morton and Mattner have rated?

[TheBloods]

Well let's look at our 2012 premiership team.

I don't think Mummy, Pike and Bird were in the top half of players (of those who played 10+ games that season) in the league in their position. Where would Morton and Mattner have rated?

Its not about being in the top half in their positions , its about not being duds . Simple. Not everyone has to be a star , just dont be a dud

[Maltopia]

Its not about being in the top half in their positions , its about not being duds . Simple. Not everyone has to be a star , just dont be a dud

Yeah, fair distinction, but Rowbottom is serviceable, not a dud. I rate him more than Hayward and Florent who were picked in about the same draft pick range.

[SwanSand]

Its not about being in the top half in their positions , its about not being duds . Simple. Not everyone has to be a star , just dont be a dud

The same was said about a lot of players that Melbourne has or for that matter Richmond in 2017. They are not good enough. Collectively they have made the effort stick and have become much better than good enough.
It is hard to agree with what you say about all of them. But I don’t have the crystal ball to say they are going to be good.

[TheBloods]

The same was said about a lot of players that Melbourne has or for that matter Richmond in 2017. They are not good enough. Collectively they have made the effort stick and have become much better than good enough.
It is hard to agree with what you say about all of them. But I don’t have the crystal ball to say they are going to be good.

Wicks could be decent . Needs to perform always . Not much is asked of him so if hes in the team he needs to be doing it EVERY week . Not one week here and one week there. Bell could be ok, hard to judge him when hes not getting to play in the job where he dominates and gets selected in the first place ! The rest , no chance

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Well let's look at our 2012 premiership team.
I don't think Mummy, Pike and Bird were in the top half of players (of those who played 10+ games that season) in the league in their position. Where would Morton and Mattner have rated?

I reckon you're wrong about Mummy.

No point playing 2 rucks when both get outplayed by a kid who has looked ordinary in other games. He took some great marks tonight as well, too - so fair play.

For our rucks to combine for 26 taps to his 23 tonight, and do nothing aerially when he was hauling them in, was crap.

Agreed, they were horrid - they should have given De Koning a thorough and complete working over. They had 2 tackles between them FFS.

As a pairing I am not hugely too wild about Hickey and Ladhams. For me they are too similar a type of ruck at the moment. Ladhams is 7 years younger than Hickey so it's up to him to deveop a point of difference. Physically he's not going to become the extra midfielder type of ruck, and he's no spring healed jack - so Ladhams needs to develop into a wrecking ball type (not replicating Mummy, but certainly Ladhams could show the sort of vigour he occasionally dispays on a more consistant basis).

If he can't, then playing both Hickey and Ladhams may be a problem, and we'd do better playing Amarty (whose spring is a point of difference, and makes him less of a liability at a bounce than McLean) in tandem with Hickey or Ladhams. Sam is the other option, but I sort of get the feeling he's viewed as yesterdays man.

[Roadrunner]

Wicks could be decent . Needs to perform always . Not much is asked of him so if hes in the team he needs to be doing it EVERY week . Not one week here and one week there. Bell could be ok, hard to judge him when hes not getting to play in the job where he dominates and gets selected in the first place ! The rest , no chance

Yes, Wicks could be decent. Unfortunately he just isn’t. I don’t understand how you can say Rowy has no talent and yet can’t see that on current form Wicks offers next to nothing to the team. Rowy contributes-Wicks doesn’t- simple as that. He played a good game against the Bombers and then was soundly beaten against Carlton, which was a true test.

As for Bell, how many times are you going to tell us the same thing, and then receive the same answer? Please just leave it be.

[Roadrunner]

There does seem to be some confusion on here, or I could be confused:

Is the problem with the role they are being asked to play (Bell and Wicks, the whipping boys) or the way that they are playing it?

Mark, they are not whipping boys. There’s nothing wrong with the role they are asked to play- even though I don’t like it, as pressure should be applied by all- the problem is that these 2 are simply not good enough.

If we are to challenge, we have to be prepared to assess our players critically, but without putting anyone down.
Neither would get into a top 4 team as they are simply not good enough in what they are meant to do. Furthermore, they don’t take contested marks, their kicking is below par, their tackles are average at best, they are not quick, they are not clean with the ball, but they do run around a lot which impresses some people.

They have both had chances to show what they can contribute and for me that just hasn’t been enough if we want to be a top team.

[TheBloods]

Yes, Wicks could be decent. Unfortunately he just isn’t. I don’t understand how you can say Rowy has no talent and yet can’t see that on current form Wicks offers next to nothing to the team. Rowy contributes-Wicks doesn’t- simple as that. He played a good game against the Bombers and then was soundly beaten against Carlton, which was a true test.

As for Bell, how many times are you going to tell us the same thing, and then receive the same answer? Please just leave it be.

I dont think Wicks has more talent than RB . They are about the same to me . But small fwd role doesnt need talent , just pressure and hard work to chase, harass , block space . All of that. Very different to being in the midfield with no talent .

This is why Wicks needs to perform every week . If he is pressuring non stop then its fine if he lacks ability cause the fwd line will be firing, he will cause turnovers we will score from them, set others up etc. When hes not doing these things then his lack of ability just stands out that much more !

[Roadrunner]

I dont think Wicks has more talent than RB . They are about the same to me . But small fwd role doesnt need talent , just pressure and hard work to chase, harass , block space . All of that. Very different to being in the midfield with no talent .

This is why Wicks needs to perform every week . If he is pressuring non stop then its fine if he lacks ability cause the fwd line will be firing, he will cause turnovers we will score from them, set others up etc. When hes not doing these things then his lack of ability just stands out that much more !

So you think Wicks and RB are about the same talent wise? Rowy plays mid, which is a difficult position, where you have a split second to make a decision. Banga is convinced that you are an ex South player but it is obvious to me that you never played in midfield!

A small fwd doesn’t need talent? I can pressure, chase, harass, block space so maybe both you and I can hold this spot!

Next week In: TB and Roadunner????
Out: Wicks and Bell

[TheBloods]

So you think Wicks and RB are about the same talent wise? Rowy plays mid, which is a difficult position, where you have a split second to make a decision. Banga is convinced that you are an ex South player but it is obvious to me that you never played in midfield!

A small fwd doesn’t need talent? I can pressure, chase, harass, block space so maybe both you and I can hold this spot!

Next week In: TB and Roadunner????
Out: Wicks and Bell

Deal , you will have to carry my walking cane though !

[Goal Sneak]

Deal , you will have to carry my walking cane though !

You might need the cane to take out a few Tigers TB, aim for the knees

[graemed]

Ruck pair was disappointing tonight - Hickey not near his best and Ladham really isn't offering much when he goes up forward either. Should really have monstered it more out of the centre then they did. We need patience with them as a pairing, but need more from them (especially Ladhams) around the ground. He didn't have a good night at all up forward - we didn't kick to much advantage, but he looks very easy to defend against too.

Personally I believe we must have a backup ruck and I have always favored Reid over any of the alternatives. He is quicker than MacLean, cleaner in the air than Armarty, more in everything than Ladhams.

[Goal Sneak]

Personally I believe we must have a backup ruck and I have always favored Reid over any of the alternatives. He is quicker than MacLean, cleaner in the air than Armarty, more in everything than Ladhams.

Amartey is closing the gap between he and Reid. Joel is getting better and should be given a chance ahead of Sam, who is in the squad for depth. Reid shouldn't be keeping younger kids who are making their case in the reserves from getting a game. If Ladhams is to be dropped, I'd like to see Amartey ahead of Reid.

[i'm-uninformed2]

"If" there is going to be a change, I'd prefer Amarty over Reid for the reasons listed above - we need to invest in our future.

I guess I'm just confused as to why the attention seems to have fallen on Ladhams after the other night. He was very poor after a reasonable stretch, but Hickey was just as wretched. Fumbly, gave away frees, inconsequential in the ruck or in the air. Easily his worst game for us.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not arguing for him to be punted either. Just trying to make sense of the singular focus on Ladhams.