Round 11 v Richmond Tigers @ SCG

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Loved your summary Deadly!
I’m a bit worried about Heeney, but maybe we’re expecting a bit too much? He is being used all over the ground to plug holes- can’t we just leave him up front? Give Paps a bit more time in midfield- I was not happy when Heens was added to the midfield group as he is a major weapon in our forward line and kicks goals!

You don't want Heeney in the midfield but do want Papley there? Can't exactly the same arguements (both for or against midfield time) be applied to both players?

[707]

Only just watched the game after being interstate, I did of course catch the final siren lunacy.

A few quick observations

Wicks, has a long habit of giving away free kicks, always seems to push players when they are on the ground or getting up but THAT WAS DUMB!! I've been a supporter in the past however we can't allow those types of rank stupidity to go unpunished when he is a marginal best 22 player. Must be sent back to the ressies to find form and reflect on his behaviour. A stupid act like that could have been the difference between top four/making finals if we hadn't pulled the game out of the fire.

Roberts I saw a lot of in the SANFL last year and thought he was a good selection at pick 34. On Friday's showing, he is a long way from seniors intensity. I'm sure he'll make the grade but we get excited by the big numbers posted by players in the VFL when in reality this probably shows the huge gap between seniors and VFL. It's why despite all the glowing write ups of potential MSD draftees, it is unlikely very many of them maintain longer term spots on AFL lists after being drafted.

Umpires - Friday night was a cracking game of high standard and intensity but please umpires put the whistle away unless the free is obvious. Waaaay too many frees being plucked out for minor incidental things. As for umpires giving frees from 50-60 metres away, that are often wrong anyway - spare me!

Ladhams was great, he's still relatively inexperienced, still has upside in our system, very happy with the pick shuffle to snare him.

Campbell, square peg in round hole, not doing great things down back so free his run and boot up on the wing and forward of centre.

[Ludwig]

Only just watched the game after being interstate, I did of course catch the final siren lunacy.

A few quick observations

Wicks, has a long habit of giving away free kicks, always seems to push players when they are on the ground or getting up but THAT WAS DUMB!! I've been a supporter in the past however we can't allow those types of rank stupidity to go unpunished when he is a marginal best 22 player. Must be sent back to the ressies to find form and reflect on his behaviour. A stupid act like that could have been the difference between top four/making finals if we hadn't pulled the game out of the fire.

Roberts I saw a lot of in the SANFL last year and thought he was a good selection at pick 34. On Friday's showing, he is a long way from seniors intensity. I'm sure he'll make the grade but we get excited by the big numbers posted by players in the VFL when in reality this probably shows the huge gap between seniors and VFL. It's why despite all the glowing write ups of potential MSD draftees, it is unlikely very many of them maintain longer term spots on AFL lists after being drafted.

Umpires - Friday night was a cracking game of high standard and intensity but please umpires put the whistle away unless the free is obvious. Waaaay too many frees being plucked out for minor incidental things. As for umpires giving frees from 50-60 metres away, that are often wrong anyway - spare me!

Ladhams was great, he's still relatively inexperienced, still has upside in our system, very happy with the pick shuffle to snare him.

Campbell, square peg in round hole, not doing great things down back so free his run and boot up on the wing and forward of centre.

+1

All good points.

[Jimitron5000]

A colleague made a point this morning that dissent is only valid when a decision has been made. In effect, the Richmond players weren't showing dissent at the umpire due to the non-decision of a 50m penalty. Can anyone confirm this is the case? I would have thought dissent is dissent and the free to Richmond should have been reversed.

[Markwebbos]

A colleague made a point this morning that dissent is only valid when a decision has been made. In effect, the Richmond players weren't showing dissent at the umpire due to the non-decision of a 50m penalty. Can anyone confirm this is the case? I would have thought dissent is dissent and the free to Richmond should have been reversed.

They pinged Lloyd for dissent for a HTB that wasn’t paid (and gave a free against him not a 50). I think disagreeing with a decision is dissent.

Although appealing before a decision is not!

[liz]

A colleague made a point this morning that dissent is only valid when a decision has been made. In effect, the Richmond players weren't showing dissent at the umpire due to the non-decision of a 50m penalty. Can anyone confirm this is the case? I would have thought dissent is dissent and the free to Richmond should have been reversed.

A decision had been made - that the kick was to be taken from where the (perceived) infringement had occured, with no 50m penalty. Richmond players clearly carried on in a demonstrative fashion long after the umpires had reached that decision, so I reckon the free kick should have been reversed.

On the infringement that gave rise to the free kick in the first place, you see holding like that going on at pretty much every ground ball contest throughout pretty much every game. If you just rewind a minute or so earlier to when the Swans managed to clear the ball to centre wing, you can see Warner far more obviously impeded in his chase for the ball than Prestia was in that final incident. And that's ignoring the whack in the head that Warner received immediately before the free was given to Prestia.

In the last five or so minutes of the game, when the ball spent most of the time in Richmond's forward 50, I reckon there were a dozen or so free kicks that might have been picked out if the umpires had continued their approach of the rest of the game. They seemed to put the whistle away. So for an umpire 70m away to pick out one minor free in the last seconds of the game when they had ignored so many similarly minor infringements in the previous five minutes illustrates how problematic / frustrating / irritating the umpiring is right now.

[RogueSwan]

BTW loved Ramp's acceptance speech which avoided the usual cliches and spoke proudly about the indigenous legacy to our club and game.

+1
He also spoke well on MMM on Saturday arvo.

I consumed plenty of media, as you do after a win, but I have not really come across anyone saying the wrong call was made at the end of the game. Most agree it was "technically" there but the right decision was made, there were more complaints that this sort of "common sense" approach isn't taken more often by umpires, especially in regards to the recent dissent rule.

[111431]

What a load of rubbish . He plays with full intensity and is a supreme talent . He is a fantastic young player , end of !

I love all of that but his ill discipline may cost us

[TheBloods]

I love all of that but his ill discipline may cost us

What about what he offers us ? We 'd be stuffed without him . One of our best in all our wins , Cats, Bombers, Eagles , Tigers, Hawks games all coaches votes.

What ill discipline ? Kicking the ball when he thought we had won ? You see that half a dozen times a round ! Other than that hes an energetic kid who lifts the team and the crowd . He is just a ripper

[Ruck'n'Roll]

When people talk of using "common sense" it generally refers to doing what the speaker would prefer to have occured.
And I reject the claims that the umpires are paying to many frees.

I have no gripe with free kicks, just the inconsistancy - which I prefer to think is more the fault of interpretation variations generated by AFL headquarters, rather than incompetence or bias from the umpires themselves.

[111431]

What about what he offers us ? We 'd be stuffed without him . One of our best in all our wins , Cats, Bombers, Eagles , Tigers, Hawks games all coaches votes.

What ill discipline ? Kicking the ball when he thought we had won ? You see that half a dozen times a round ! Other than that hes an energetic kid who lifts the team and the crowd . He is just a ripper

he's all of what you say but he needs to bite his tongue in front of the umpires

[707]

A pathetic free adjudicated from 70 metres away - by which umpire? Well what a surprise, our old "mate" Stevic

[TheBloods]

he's all of what you say but he needs to bite his tongue in front of the umpires

Based on what ? The BS dissent free paid against him vs the blues ? Please . He cops it unfairly around here

[liz]

When people talk of using "common sense" it generally refers to doing what the speaker would prefer to have occured.
And I reject the claims that the umpires are paying to many frees.

I have no gripe with free kicks, just the inconsistancy - which I prefer to think is more the fault of interpretation variations generated by AFL headquarters, rather than incompetence or bias from the umpires themselves.

I agree consistency is the main issue.

There was an incident in our game where we were awarded a free kick and the Richmond player kicked the ball away. (I think it was Soldo.) No 50m penalty. I think umpires rarely pay 50m penalties when there's one disposal from the opposition after a free is paid. It's only when they go on with it that a 50m is paid, and even then not always.

What was more eye catching with the Warner one is that he kicked it into the crowd. That will always be paid a 50m in normal play, whether a free has been paid or there is a boundary throw-in. It just comes to whether this was normal play since Warner clearly believed the game was over.

I'd love to know what happens at an umpire coaching level. We all accept that many of the rules and the fast paced nature of the game lend themselves to inconsistency / varying interpretations of what is and isn't a free. But do the umpires collectively think they should be reaching some consensus via the game review process and internal discussion, or do they think it's all so hard that there's no choice for them all to apply their own individual interpretations. One would like to think it's the former, but the evidence of this year (not based purely, or even mainly, on Swans games but right across all games I've watched) isn't strong.

[111431]

Based on what ? The BS dissent free paid against him vs the blues ? Please . He cops it unfairly around here

don't get me wrong, I think he's great but he needs to manage his youthful exuberance. At one point on Friday night he was about to launch into argument and one of our guys shoved him away. I'm only wanting the best for him and not undo his great work