Rnd 12 Pre-Match Thread, vs Melbourne at MCG, 7:25 PM Saturday 4 June

[stevoswan]

Yep, take the week's rest Bud, it was so very dumb and clumsy, there's no justification.

Because of course, you wouldn't react at all when someone solidly plants their shoulder into your collar bone, without you knowing it's coming?

Seriously, fans who believe they'd be perfect in the same scenario are having a lend of themselves....and everyone else.

- - - Updated - - -

OUT: Wicks, Buddy, Roberts
IN: Taylor, Amartey, Fox

I'd love to see Taylor get a crack after being BOG in the ressies and putting in week in week out. However I think Taylor had his papers stamped in season 1 by Horse and Ronke will get the look in over Taylor for Wicks who's had 2 average weeks.

If Taylor doesn't get picked, Stephens should be.

[Ludwig]

No Blakey? Assuming his illness is short-lived, I imagine he'll be straight back in (and we did miss him).

I find Taylor immensely irritating to watch in the VFL side. He runs around, gathering possessions at will, calls for the ball when he's in a worse spot than the player passing it to him, and is often careless with his disposal. He does seem to have done something about the fitness issues that were a question mark when he first arrived at the club, but to me, he plays a Darcy Parish/Zac Merrett style of midfield, but with worse disposal. That said, those elements of his game were less prominent on Friday, when I think he did play a good game. I still wouldn't have him in the senior team though.

I don't think we're getting great value from Campbell in the back half. His pace and kicking skills suggest he could fit in well there, but he doesn't (yet) seem to have the confidence to use his pace to run the ball out of defence, or to take on the risky kicks that Blakey does (and that sometimes come unstuck but often truly clear the ball for us). When he came on as sub for Kennedy last week, he played further up the ground and I think was more effective. So if Wicks were to be banished (and I don't have strong feelings either way), I'd love to see Campbell move up and play across half forward for a game or two.

Alternatively, Ronke did have a decent game on Friday afternoon.

I also don't think we're getting as much out of Florent as we might. He's doing an OK job playing a defensive role but I'd moved him up to play on the wing, replacing Roberts, and also sometimes at centre bounces.

So for me:

Out: Roberts, Franklin, Wicks (maybe)
In: Blakey, Amartey, Fox (maybe)

with Campbell and Florent to effectively replace Wicks and Roberts positionally. Blakey and Fox to replace Campbell and Florent positionally, which means COR also keeps his spot. I've only watched a replay of the second half, so far, but he did some pretty impressive things.

I agree with your assessment on Taylor, which is why I put up Clarke's name to come in ahead of Taylor. I have also made similar comments on Stephens, in that he's improving, except for his errant kicking.

I also like your suggestion of moving Campbell to the forward line. I think our defence looks okay with the McCartins, Rampe, Blakey, COR and Lloyd. I'm okay with Florent helping out in defence. We can't throw everyone into the midfield.

The one midfield move I continue to prefer is that of Heeney. He can have some very productive weeks up forward, but when he's off a bit, we're not getting enough from such a huge talent. From the midfield, he can also help out in defence and provide a good marking outlet more often.

I like a core midfield of Mills, Parker, Heeney, Warner and Rowbottom. Even with rotations, we should be able to have at least 4 of those on the ground simultaneously.

We can still have Ronke come in for Wicks, even with a Campbell move forward, with Heeney and Papley taking turns in the midfield. But Fox is okay as well, and versatile enough to play back or forward.

[Agent 86]

Because of course, you wouldn't react at all when someone solidly plants their shoulder into your collar bone, without you knowing it's coming?

Seriously, fans who believe they'd be perfect in the same scenario are having a lend of themselves....and everyone else.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that, Stevo. Cotchin is Like the little brother who niggles you until you whack him and then runs crying to Mum & you get a bollocking.

[COB]

I don’t think anyone’s saying that, Stevo. Cotchin is Like the little brother who niggles you until you whack him and then runs crying to Mum & you get a bollocking.

Stop trying to justify Buddy's action. Niggle is part of the game. If roles were reversed I don't think you'd be so forgiving. Wish people weren't so biased just because they support a particular team.

[Roadrunner]

Stop trying to justify Buddy's action. Niggle is part of the game. If roles were reversed I don't think you'd be so forgiving. Wish people weren't so biased just because they support a particular team.

Not justifying it at all COB, but Cotchin did put on a bit of an act to exaggerate the contact. He wasn’t hurt and wanted to make sure everyone saw what happened. Buddy should know better and a week off is fair- not that he needs a rest as yet!

[Goal Sneak]

Because of course, you wouldn't react at all when someone solidly plants their shoulder into your collar bone, without you knowing it's coming?

Seriously, fans who believe they'd be perfect in the same scenario are having a lend of themselves....and everyone else.

Buddy chose to get involved with a pip-squeak nipping at him and he clumsily got it wrong. I've got no problem with anyone engaging in a bit of argy-bargy but if you get it wrong, there's no point trying to justify it as if you're innocent. I said it was dumb because of the timing and the resulting reverse free kick. Buddy knows better, he got sucked in, even though, ultimately it seemed to spark his game into action.

[KSAS]

Hickey (if available) for Reid
Amartey for Buddy
Blakey for COR
Ronke/Taylor for Wicks.

4 changes is a lot for winning team. Suspect at least 2 (Amartey & Blakey).
COR as Sub.

[Roadrunner]

Hickey (if available) for Reid
Amartey for Buddy
Blakey for COR
Ronke/Taylor for Wicks.

4 changes is a lot for winning team. Suspect at least 2 (Amartey & Blakey).
COR as Sub.

Fair point KSAS but would you leave Wicks in? I don’t think he deserves a spot based on his last 2 games. I wouldn’t have picked him after his Carlton game, but Horse and Co must see something that I don’t. Would much rather have either of the two you named or Clarke. Sure, he may spray it a bit but we all agree that he can get the pill and can tag.

We have Petracca and Oliver to think about at the very least. So I’m not fussed with 4 changes, but if Hickey is not available it should be only 3.

[longmile]

What about Blakey?

No Blakey? Assuming his illness is short-lived, I imagine he'll be straight back in (and we did miss him).

Ooops. No you're both correct. I forgot about Blakey! Definitely an auto in

[KSAS]

Appreciate your feedback Roadrunner. Those 4 changes is what I personally like to see as a observant fan. I suspect maybe only 2 changes as you had pointed out that MC may see things differently and have their own trigger points, particularly with Wicks. I like to see Wicks do well as it's a particularly specialist role playing small forward these days. But when I read VFL reports of how well Taylor and Clarke have been consistently playing, then effort should also be rewarded when the opportunity arises, as it sets example for entire playing group.

I don't like debutants being dropped just after one game, as they should be given at least 2 games to adjust to the levels of senior footy, hence Roberts gets another chance in my books.

I thought COR was solid with no glaring errors and only loses his spot due to Blakey's return, hence he makes a good sub.

Not sure how bad Hickey's toe is but it appears he was playing with it sore previous few weeks going by Horse's presser last week and I'm keeping finger's crossed a week's rest is sufficient for his return this week.

[KTigers]

Agree with KSAS re Roberts. Dropping him after one week is a show of no confidence, the one thing debutants need most.
Give him another game or two at least.

[Roadrunner]

Agree with KSAS re Roberts. Dropping him after one week is a show of no confidence, the one thing debutants need most.
Give him another game or two at least.

Yes, keep Roberts but they did the same with Gus IIRC. One game is not enough but team balance can come into play.

[Faunac8]

Agree with KSAS re Roberts. Dropping him after one week is a show of no confidence, the one thing debutants need most.
Give him another game or two at least.

I am not sure it’s viewed as a show of no confidence but more, as others have posited , a small reality check for the player to ascertain just how big the gap is between AFL and every other level or league.
I suspect no matter how much those players are made aware of the difference it is only the actual playing experience that delivers the reality .
Don’t get me wrong it’s no knock on Robert’s and if we were playing say West Coast or North then we probably could persevere for a second week but this is a real challenge this week and we need to pick our best possible team.
At this stage he is not best 22 so unfortunately he will probably be sent back to the VFL with a check list of things to work on.
Two years from now he probably won’t even be mentioned as a possible out but at this stage of his career it is what it is.

[stevoswan]

Buddy chose to get involved with a pip-squeak nipping at him and he clumsily got it wrong. I've got no problem with anyone engaging in a bit of argy-bargy but if you get it wrong, there's no point trying to justify it as if you're innocent. I said it was dumb because of the timing and the resulting reverse free kick. Buddy knows better, he got sucked in, even though, ultimately it seemed to spark his game into action.

.....and I'll say it again, Buddy had no idea he had been awarded a free. Do you actually think he knew? Do you think he would have done what he did, had he realised? He's not THAT dumb, so stop calling him 'dumb'. Had he known it was our/his free kick....and then did what he did, I would agree he was/is dumb. He's not.

[Steve]

Taylor and Clarke running around getting 30-40 cheap uncontested possessions each week in the VFL is probably the most futile thing I’ve ever seen.

Clearly they’re not in our plans, but it’s still odd we wouldn’t give them a role or instructions to play another way - even if we have 20 injuries we’re not going to ask them to play that way in the seniors.