Rnd 15 Pre-Match Thread, vs St Kilda

[wolftone57]

To be fair to Horse, HHK has been at the club all of about 15 seconds. I suspect he isn't in any 'list' of favourites or anything yet.

I'd be happy with those changes. I still don't quite see the fascination with Gould that others have - but wouldn't be unhappy if he had a chance. He plays well without screaming 'pick me' in reserves for mine (not that he had a lot to do yesterday to be honest - it wasn't much of a contest).

And on the broader thread, its a no to Stephens for mine at the moment. Thought he didn't do a whole lot at all in the reserves yesterday, certainly not much screaming 'pick me'.

I think you are missing the point on Gould. He might not look like he is doing much but he averages 17 disposals/game. That is pretty good for a tall defender. He uses the ball pretty well too and kicked 2 goals on the weekend. You must have gone for a toilet break when that was happening. He has also been marshaling a makeshift backline all season. He is the Rampe of the reserves. His opponents rarely score

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[wolftone57]

Well summarised Ludwig I tend to agree that structure is our main problem.
Most players nowadays are pretty flexible and if they aren’t they soon learn to be when they hit the AFL system.
I believe we have the players available to play finals but it doesn’t seem that all of the players think so. I hate to say it but this year I don’t feel that the fringe players are settled and confident enough to think that if they deliver performances that would normally warrant selection on a regular basis that it will happen.
Is this because they are being asked to take on roles that are unfamiliar or because they just are not that skilled to adapt to the requirements set by the match committee?
Examples that could be offered up include Gould and Stephen’s and wondering is their lack of ability to fill a different role within the team impacting on their selection opportunities?

Gould has been very good all year. People do not notice him. But if you asked the opposition about his opponents they would say they were basically unsighted. He has only given up goals in one game. He is consistently good. He also runs, a generally makeshift backline as the general of the reserves. The Rampe role if you will.? All season he has had non listed players in that backline and they have done very well except on a couple of occasions and then because the mids and forwards let them down.

He is cherryripe and if we don't play him this week it would be stupidity.

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[wolftone57]

I'm not disagreeing on Rampe's performance, but I think the reason he is still being asked to play on tall defenders is they like to place P McCartin on a less threatening option so he can float, mark and release kick more.

Paddy played on a small opponent on the weekend. When the ball was overhead Paddy won easily. But when the ball hit the ground he got killed. The other thing is when he went up in the pack, his opponent was at ground level getting the crumbs. This is not working. He needs to play tall all the time, not just as an interceptor.

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[wolftone57]

I’d be happy with these changes.

At some point I hope Campbell and Stephens also find their way back into the team. I hate unrealised talent going to waste (whether from the player’s output or the lack of opportunity given).

I think a month of, Campbell playing reserves in the mids and bring him back to play AFL mid.

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[wolftone57]

Definitely looks like this and this may be the reason Gould is not getting games as Paddy is playing a very similar role to him .


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Gould, while he intercepts, has been playing FB and playing it well. He is very tight. He is not a flashy player so what he does goes mostly unnoticed. He has very good game sense which allows him to read the play better than most of his opponents. He plays a different role to Paddy. I would like Paddy to play more like Gould. Still intercept, ie players like Taylor & Harris-Andrews but play more their role.

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[Markwebbos]

Ben?

Its what most of the commentators call him, even though Ben’s been retired a while now.

[wolftone57]

I think with Kennedy's absence (and form drop) and Mills needing to play some more minutes in defence the last few weeks, having another hard nut older midfielder like Clarke in the seniors could help us. I wouldn't be that upset if Clarke got a crack at the seniors. He runs hard, racks up numbers, can tag and as you point out - has improved his disposal efficiency.

However its' hard to see who he'd replace in the team, Rowbottom would be the most obvious but he's been good this year (careful not to open a can of worms here). Another option would be Florent who played well against the Dees but whilst his role would be different to Clarke's, has definitely not progressed as many of us here would of hoped. Finally, he could come in for Wicks, with Papley to spend more time up forward and less in the middle.

I agree about Clarke. But you know what they will do to him. They will play him on a wing or at HF. I just do not get our coaches. We have good mids and we waste them. See Hewett for proof. I think Longmire's tenure has been a time of wasted opportunity. If he does not deliver in the next 2 years, he should resign. We got cocky in 2014 and got flogged. How could a coach let this happen? I think he was cocky too. In 2016, we were ambushed by the umpires but we also lost the game at the selection table.

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[Markwebbos]

With the bombing inside 50 and lack of leading we don’t always do it.

There have been games where eyes have been lowered.

Which implies this is coming from a the coaches. I’m mystified why we’d choose to do it when it doesn’t work?

[TheBloods]

With the bombing inside 50 and lack of leading we don’t always do it.

There have been games where eyes have been lowered.

Which implies this is coming from a the coaches. I’m mystified why we’d choose to do it when it doesn’t work?

we have good forwards , why not use them . Get it in fast , doesnt have to be pretty. Thats the name of the game

[wolftone57]

Did Cunningham really play that poorly? I honestly don't remember. I don't know who he was playing on, but they didn't get much goal production from their small forwards, so hard to blame the lock down small defender. He did play on Jones for a while and Jones only got 5 possessions. Harry had 79% game time, which I think is just a bit down from normal.

Cunningham and Lloyd have been playing different roles over the past few years and I thought Harry was doing just fine until he got injured. Now that he's had a game under his belt, I don't think there should be a fitness problem, so it's hard to see a good reason to drop him.

There's been a big transition this year in backline personnel and the way we are playing because of it. We also need to find a way to get Gould into the side, as he's really earned his shot after 2 + seasons in the reserves. If we are aiming to have Gould and Florent in defence, as well as consider Fox and COR for selection, then we need to reposition Rampe and Lloyd and keep McInerney out of the defensive mix. It's either Blakey or JMac in defence, but not both.

It's hard to see us as a premiership contender when we are still working out where all the parts go. We might as well try to get this part right as much as possible this year and not drag it on longer than we have to. It would be nice to go into next season with a fairly set lineup, knowing we still have a few, like Sheldrick, Roberts, HHK and Sheather to challenge for spots in the side.

i thought or a first up after injury Harry was ok. I agree about getting the backline mix right. Rampe can no longer play tall. The interpretation of the rules has made this impossible. I do not like the idea of Paddy playing on smalls. That did not work on the weekend. Paddy was still good but when the ball hit the ground he was no match for his opponent and Rampe was slaughtered by Marshall. The change should have been made, Paddy to Marshall. He can defend a tall as well as intercept. Taylor and Harris-Andrews manage to do it well.

[Swanny40519]

Very conservative approach by the selectors. Yes Clarke has played well in the VFL but in most of the senior games he has played, the level of performance has not been good.

I am not sure what Gould, Fox or Armety have to do to get a game.

[MattW]

Essentially:
- Campbell for O'Riordan
- Hickey for Ladhams
- Clarke for Wicks.

Improvements. I'm pleased Clarke has been rewarded and hope he goes well.

St Kilda's outs are good for us. Higgins seems to go well against us and as a very casual follower of St Kilda, I'm surprised to see him omitted.

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[waswan]

Happy with that team

Hope Clarke gets a chance to chase the ball, head to head and not tag

[Bexl]

Essentially:
- Campbell for O'Riordan
- Hickey for Ladhams
- Clarke for Wicks.

Improvements. I'm pleased Clarke has been rewarded and hope he goes well.

St Kilda's outs are good for us. Higgins seems to go well against us and as a very casual follower of St Kilda, I'm surprised to see him omitted.

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Higgins most likely will be sub.

[dejavoodoo44]

Essentially:
- Campbell for O'Riordan
- Hickey for Ladhams
- Clarke for Wicks.

Improvements. I'm pleased Clarke has been rewarded and hope he goes well.

St Kilda's outs are good for us. Higgins seems to go well against us and as a very casual follower of St Kilda, I'm surprised to see him omitted.

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Hill and Ryder out is bad news for them. Steele back in is bad news for us.

I'm also pleased for Ryan Clarke. He's really shown up for each VFL match, when others may have got disheartened, so good luck to him.