Hawthorn racism review

[Roadrunner]

This abc investigation didn’t just happen this week, it would’ve been weeks, or maybe even months in the making

Why give Clarkson and co just 24 hours to respond? Why didn’t they request a formal interview with them? Particularly when they were not part of the process for the initial report

Given the extreme nature of the allegations, it strikes me as ACA gotcha journalism

The allegations seem outrageous by any normal persons standards and completely out of character for the two main protagonists named, regardless of your personal opinion of them.

The idea that coaches would ask to take your SIM card as a means from removing a person from their family seems preposterous and nonsensical

Their careers and lives are in tatters from unsubstantiated accusations provided by anonymous sources and haven’t been provided any real opportunity to defend themselves. They’ve already been deemed guilty by the moral majority

If the allegations turn out to be true, then those involved deserve punishment, but this is trial by social media and it’s pretty unsavoury

Totally agreed caj. Surely ALL people should have been in interviewed. This reeks of sensationalism and gutter journalism. Not sure why the ABC resorts to this- they look to vilify people, it seems. Their hounding of Cardinal Pell is a prime example.

[Bloods05]

Totally agreed caj. Surely ALL people should have been in interviewed. This reeks of sensationalism and gutter journalism. Not sure why the ABC resorts to this- they look to vilify people, it seems. Their hounding of Cardinal Pell is a prime example.

This discussion has descended into farce. The idea that the ABC should sit on a report like this, having become aware of it, is patently ridiculous. They offered Fagan and Clarkson ample opportunity to comment, and they declined. At the very least they could have denied the allegations and indicated they would be making fuller statements at a later date. To call this "gutter journalism" and raise the spectre of Pell is beyond nonsensical.

[Blood Fever]

It will no doubt be a terribly unfashionable comment to make, but I do this stuff for a living. I am extremely uncomfortable with the fact that this report has been published without, according to the reports, Clarkson, Fagan or Burt being even spoken to. Maybe the allegations are 100% true, maybe they're not. But to publish a report like this - and potentially destroy careers - without even speaking with those directly implicated, is frankly horrendous. If any of us were thinking of ourselves or anyone we cared about we would want something fairer than that.

As it happens, I detest Clarkson. I detest Newbold. I think both were beyond abysmal during the Goodes saga (and I was there, and positively nauseous, that awful day at the MCG). The Hawthorn Football Club was pathetic and its key figures were pathetic. In a way I rejoice in their suffering. But two wrongs do not make a right and the way this is unfolding is simply not right.

+1. Careers and reputations destroyed on a regular basis in the media by the guilty until proven innocent brigade. Can't stand Clarkson but his career has now been destoyed without giving himself a chance to defend himself. Allegations could be spot on or they could be false. Won't matter now. In the current climate, he's done.

[KTigers]

This abc investigation didn’t just happen this week, it would’ve been weeks, or maybe even months in the making

Why give Clarkson and co just 24 hours to respond? Why didn’t they request a formal interview with them? Particularly when they were not part of the process for the initial report

Given the extreme nature of the allegations, it strikes me as ACA gotcha journalism

The allegations seem outrageous by any normal persons standards and completely out of character for the two main protagonists named, regardless of your personal opinion of them.

The idea that coaches would ask to take your SIM card as a means from removing a person from their family seems preposterous and nonsensical

Their careers and lives are in tatters from unsubstantiated accusations provided by anonymous sources and haven’t been provided any real opportunity to defend themselves. They’ve already been deemed guilty by the moral majority

If the allegations turn out to be true, then those involved deserve punishment, but this is trial by social media and it’s pretty unsavoury

Do we know for a fact that the ABC didn't try to contact Clarkson and Fagan? And didn't Clarko issue a statement yesterday?
He defended himself as he's entitled to. Seems a bit early to say their careers and lives are in tatters.
The SIM card thing ; footy clubs do try to influence the lives of players outside of the club. They tell them what to eat, what
to drink, when to do it. They get the young players to live together in an almost boarding school environment. That happens
at the Swans. On the website they are always spinning these corny stories about how great it is that the boys all take turns
cooking the pasta.
I'd be curious to know if at Hawthorn they took the SIM cards from some young non-indigenous players too, as a way
of influencing who they mixed with. Will they be the only club to do this. I'd think not.
And this whole thing of rearing back every time someone raises a serious allegation, and exclaiming "Well, that's a really
shocking thing to say about someone". Well, what are they supposed to do? Just say nothing at all, or do they have to raise
their complaint in a way that Sam Newman would find palatable.

[dejavoodoo44]

This abc investigation didn’t just happen this week, it would’ve been weeks, or maybe even months in the making

Why give Clarkson and co just 24 hours to respond? Why didn’t they request a formal interview with them? Particularly when they were not part of the process for the initial report

Given the extreme nature of the allegations, it strikes me as ACA gotcha journalism

The allegations seem outrageous by any normal persons standards and completely out of character for the two main protagonists named, regardless of your personal opinion of them.

The idea that coaches would ask to take your SIM card as a means from removing a person from their family seems preposterous and nonsensical

Their careers and lives are in tatters from unsubstantiated accusations provided by anonymous sources and haven’t been provided any real opportunity to defend themselves. They’ve already been deemed guilty by the moral majority

If the allegations turn out to be true, then those involved deserve punishment, but this is trial by social media and it’s pretty unsavoury

Well, no. The story on the ABC site is essentially a write up by Russell Jackson of interviews with three couples. Assuming that they were agreeable to putting their stories on record, then perhaps it would take an hour or so to organise the interviews. Then if they were interviewed separately, then perhaps it would take a day to record the interviews, possibly a lot less if there wasn't much travel involved. Then perhaps half a day or a day to write up the interview, and to check with the subjects if they were happy with what was written. So, it was almost certainly done in a time frame a lot less than weeks or months. Possibly in a couple of days, if the participants had become worried that the Hawthorn report was being buried.

[Blood Fever]

Do we know for a fact that the ABC didn't try to contact Clarkson and Fagan? And didn't Clarko issue a statement yesterday?
He defended himself as he's entitled to. Seems a bit early to say their careers and lives are in tatters.
The SIM card thing ; footy clubs do try to influence the lives of players outside of the club. They tell them what to eat, what
to drink, when to do it. They get the young players to live together in an almost boarding school environment. That happens
at the Swans. On the website they are always spinning these corny stories about how great it is that the boys all take turns
cooking the pasta.
I'd be curious to know if at Hawthorn they took the SIM cards from some young non-indigenous players too, as a way
of influencing who they mixed with. Will they be the only club to do this. I'd think not.
And this whole thing of rearing back every time someone raises a serious allegation, and exclaiming "Well, that's a really
shocking thing to say about someone". Well, what are they supposed to do? Just say nothing at all, or do they have to raise
their complaint in a way that Sam Newman would find palatable.

Not every allegation is true but that idea is only given lip service in the media these days. The damage has been done even if for some reason what has been alleged turns out to be false. He will still be forced out.

[dejavoodoo44]

Totally agreed caj. Surely ALL people should have been in interviewed. This reeks of sensationalism and gutter journalism. Not sure why the ABC resorts to this- they look to vilify people, it seems. Their hounding of Cardinal Pell is a prime example.

It's not sensationalist, gutter journalism, if all the claims are made by the interview subjects, rather than the journalist. Also, your claim that there's something wrong with the story because all involved weren't interviewed, is somewhat invalidated by the fact that those who the allegations were made against, were given the opportunity to respond. And apparently, the 24 hour time period is generous in modern journalism. It's also a nonsense, to suggest that obviously newsworthy stories should be canned, because the possibly guilty parties don't want to get involved. If journalists adopted that general rule, then it would essentially kill the already difficult and legally fraught profession of investigative journalism.

[KTigers]

Not every allegation is true but that idea is only given lip service in the media these days. The damage has been done even if for some reason what has been alleged turns out to be false. He will still be forced out.

I just don't think we should forget that it was the reaction to what Adam Goodes had to say that drove him from the game, it
wasn't what he actually said. Adam's allegation was of course true. People should be allowed to speak out. Clarko is a big boy
with the hide of a rhino and a pile of money. He'll get his day in court as the saying goes. He'll pull through.

[i'm-uninformed2]

For what it’s worth, the journalist involved, Russell Jackson, is saying he sent a series of questions to Fagan at least 24 hours before publishing and when he had no response, left a message on his phone offering more time, but with no response.

He’s only clarified his efforts to reach Fagan because Eddie McGuire suggested he hadn’t really done so, and there’s no clarity on when he sought to contact Clarko.

[Blood Fever]

I just don't think we should forget that it was the reaction to what Adam Goodes had to say that drove him from the game, it
wasn't what he actually said. Adam's allegation was of course true. People should be allowed to speak out. Clarko is a big boy
with the hide of a rhino and a pile of money. He'll get his day in court as the saying goes. He'll pull through.

Of course people should be allowed to speak out. Many allegations are true. Some are proven to be false but, similar to sexual abuse cases, if that is the case here, it won't matter. No one will go near him in terms of coaching.

[liz]

For what it’s worth, the journalist involved, Russell Jackson, is saying he sent a series of questions to Fagan at least 24 hours before publishing and when he had no response, left a message on his phone offering more time, but with no response.

He’s only clarified his efforts to reach Fagan because Eddie McGuire suggested he hadn’t really done so, and there’s no clarity on when he sought to contact Clarko.

The article states that both Clarkson and Fagan were sent a list of questions so you'd imagine they were sent at the same time.

Speaking on The Drum last night, Tracey Holmes said they were given 24 hours, and this was extended to 30.

I'm not sure how I feel about the story being outed in this way, but the original article indicates it is not just based on testimony but that there are emails and notes from the time of the events that corroborate the stories. I assume Jackson has seen these himself. I don't see the ABC publishing this unless they believed the body of evidence was strong.

[liz]

footy clubs do try to influence the lives of players outside of the club. They tell them what to eat, what
to drink, when to do it. They get the young players to live together in an almost boarding school environment. That happens
at the Swans. On the website they are always spinning these corny stories about how great it is that the boys all take turns
cooking the pasta.

I guess there can sometimes be a fine line between supporting young players relocating to a new environment and seeking to control them.

And in an environment like the AFL, there is a huge power imbalance between teenagers desperate to make their way in the sport and those who manage lists, pick teams etc. The more alien the AFL environment is to a young player and the less family support they have around them, the greater that imbalance is.

And it's a brutal industry that sells dreams to hundreds of teenagers every year, allows just a small fraction of those through the front gate each year, and then spits around half of those out before they've found their footing.

[dejavoodoo44]

The article states that both Clarkson and Fagan were sent a list of questions so you'd imagine they were sent at the same time.

Speaking on The Drum last night, Tracey Holmes said they were given 24 hours, and this was extended to 30.

I'm not sure how I feel about the story being outed in this way, but the original article indicates it is not just based on testimony but that there are emails and notes from the time of the events that corroborate the stories. I assume Jackson has seen these himself. I don't see the ABC publishing this unless they believed the body of evidence was strong.

And I suspect that in these litigious times, the ABC legal department would have gone over an obviously controversial story, prior to publishing, in order to make sure that the claims being made were defensible.

[dejavoodoo44]

And I suspect that in these litigious times, the ABC legal department would have gone over an obviously controversial story, prior to publishing, in order to make sure that the claims being made were defensible.

Doesn't necessarily make the claims true, of course, but I'm sure that they would have sought to establish, that there's reasonable grounds to believe the claims and that publishing could be in the public interest.

[Captain]

Clarko is a big boy
with the hide of a rhino and a pile of money. He'll get his day in court as the saying goes. He'll pull through.

This is a dangerous take and you have missed the point. You might not like Clarko but if these claims were untrue why should he have to deal with this and have his career ruined? He will now be tarnished forever regardless of the result.

To suggest he had the hide of a rhino and therefore imply he will be fine is pretty tough to swallow. No idea how you know this.