Hawthorn racism review

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  • Bloods05
    Senior Player
    • Oct 2008
    • 1641

    Originally posted by caj23
    Wow, some people are quick to judge without listening to both sides of the story

    If it comes out that the allegations are 100% true and as told, then great, throw the book at the guilty parties, but the reality is there's two sides to every story and I have no doubt that in this instance there will not only be conflicting versions, but also some perspective on some of the scenarios.

    I might be naive, but I find it difficult to believe that Clarkson and the co accused would perpetrate such cruel actions without a) this story getting out years ago and b) countless other players/administrators/club volunteers etc. coming forward with similar stories about their conduct given they have all been in the AFL system for years.

    I'm not discounting the accusations; I just won't rush to judge without hearing all of the facts.
    I'm not rushing to judgement about the allegations. My concern is that, once again, the AFL is failing to investigate thoroughly. This is not an independent process. Pure and simple. As always, the AFL has opted for a process they can control, so as to minimise damage to "the brand".

    Comment

    • caj23
      Senior Player
      • Aug 2003
      • 2462

      Whilst none of the players have been named, it's not hard to work out who they are.

      I imagine a player hooked on meth who stole to feed his addiction may have required intervention in his life that might have been more extreme than what would be considered normal, regardless of race



      No doubt further details will come out once the respondents have their say

      Comment

      • Bloods05
        Senior Player
        • Oct 2008
        • 1641

        Originally posted by caj23
        Whilst none of the players have been named, it's not hard to work out who they are.

        I imagine a player hooked on meth who stole to feed his addiction may have required intervention in his life that might have been more extreme than what would be considered normal, regardless of race



        No doubt further details will come out once the respondents have their say
        Perhaps, but that intervention could never legitimately include forcing his girlfriend to have an abortion, nor could it include instructing him to leave a relationship against his will. Drug use and criminal behaviour have no relevance to such personal matters.

        Comment

        • stevoswan
          Veterans List
          • Sep 2014
          • 8555

          Originally posted by caj23
          Whilst none of the players have been named, it's not hard to work out who they are.

          I imagine a player hooked on meth who stole to feed his addiction may have required intervention in his life that might have been more extreme than what would be considered normal, regardless of race



          No doubt further details will come out once the respondents have their say
          This is a reach....and speculation is always risky.

          Comment

          • caj23
            Senior Player
            • Aug 2003
            • 2462

            Originally posted by stevoswan
            This is a reach....and speculation is always risky.
            There’s no speculation in that article, it is fact.

            Comment

            • Bloods05
              Senior Player
              • Oct 2008
              • 1641

              Originally posted by caj23
              There’s no speculation in that article, it is fact.
              The speculation, should it need to be spelt out, is that this is one of the players in question.

              Comment

              • Ruck'n'Roll
                Ego alta, ergo ictus
                • Nov 2003
                • 3990

                Originally posted by caj23
                Whilst none of the players have been named, it's not hard to work out who they are.

                I imagine a player hooked on meth who stole to feed his addiction may have required intervention in his life that might have been more extreme than what would be considered normal, regardless of race



                No doubt further details will come out once the respondents have their say
                The story is dated November 10th, 2022 - but it's written like it was 2015.
                Very confusing

                Comment

                • Captain
                  Captain of the Side
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 3602

                  Originally posted by caj23
                  Wow, some people are quick to judge without listening to both sides of the story

                  If it comes out that the allegations are 100% true and as told, then great, throw the book at the guilty parties, but the reality is there's two sides to every story and I have no doubt that in this instance there will not only be conflicting versions, but also some perspective on some of the scenarios.

                  I might be naive, but I find it difficult to believe that Clarkson and the co accused would perpetrate such cruel actions without a) this story getting out years ago and b) countless other players/administrators/club volunteers etc. coming forward with similar stories about their conduct given they have all been in the AFL system for years.

                  I'm not discounting the accusations; I just won't rush to judge without hearing all of the facts.
                  Absolutely spot on. Reckon most people feel this way too.

                  Comment

                  • bloodspirit
                    Clubman
                    • Apr 2015
                    • 4448

                    Originally posted by stevoswan
                    This is a reach....and speculation is always risky.
                    I don't think it's much of a reach.

                    However if we want to speculate, do we think the AFL has leaked the name and encouraged media to republish this old news as payback for the familydecliningto participatein the investigation andinstead critiquingits alleged shortcomings?

                    While I'm well aware the AFL haven't been formally advised who the players involved are, I'd be surprised if they haven't figured it out.

                    Also agree that however well intentioned the alleged interventions may have been they were still wrong.

                    My view is that a lot of the problems with the whole investigation and review relate to the desire by some (not the affected players and their families, mind) to punish the "culprits". I think it would be much better for all involved to simply review these episodes as a learning experience and educational tool, not to punish. That way it wouldn't all have to be adversarial, leading to defensive postures and a battle of proof. If the players or family members want redress or compensation, let them go to the courts.

                    The problem is that the AFL can't be seen to be doing nothing if it appears that the complaints are true. But personally I think that doing nothing except learning and trying to ensure nothing similar happens again would be the best thing the AFL could do. Incidentally, I don't entirely blame the AFL for this.
                    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

                    Comment

                    • bloodspirit
                      Clubman
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 4448

                      Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                      The story is dated November 10th, 2022 - but it's written like it was 2015.
                      Very confusing
                      I think it's old news that has been rehashed for no apparent good reason.
                      All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

                      Comment

                      • Bloods05
                        Senior Player
                        • Oct 2008
                        • 1641

                        Originally posted by bloodspirit

                        However if we want to speculate, do we think the AFL has leaked the name and encouraged media to republish this old news as payback for the family declining to participate in the investigation and instead critiquing its alleged shortcomings?
                        This has the AFL's fingerprints all over it. They have plenty of compliant friends in what passes for the football "media".

                        Comment

                        • Blood Fever
                          Veterans List
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4048

                          Originally posted by Bloods05
                          This has the AFL's fingerprints all over it. They have plenty of compliant friends in what passes for the football "media".
                          Unfair article from News Ltd in retaliation to original unfair article by ABC

                          Comment

                          • stevoswan
                            Veterans List
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 8555

                            Originally posted by caj23
                            There’s no speculation in that article, it is fact.
                            The article might be fact but concluding that Garlett is one of the players involved in the Hawthorn review is speculation. That's what I meant.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by Ruck'n'Roll
                            The story is dated November 10th, 2022 - but it's written like it was 2015.
                            Very confusing
                            Yeah, I thought that too.....it's weird.

                            Comment

                            • stevoswan
                              Veterans List
                              • Sep 2014
                              • 8555

                              Originally posted by Blood Fever
                              Unfair article from News Ltd in retaliation to original unfair article by ABC
                              I actually think the original article was great journalism regarding an absolutely newsworthy matter.....and remember, both Clarkson and Fagen were given plenty of time to respond to it, which would have made it seem less 'unfair'....but they chose not to respond and that's on them, not the ABC.

                              Comment

                              • wolftone57
                                Veterans List
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 5857

                                Originally posted by caj23
                                Wow, some people are quick to judge without listening to both sides of the story

                                If it comes out that the allegations are 100% true and as told, then great, throw the book at the guilty parties, but the reality is there's two sides to every story and I have no doubt that in this instance there will not only be conflicting versions, but also some perspective on some of the scenarios.

                                I might be naive, but I find it difficult to believe that Clarkson and the co accused would perpetrate such cruel actions without a) this story getting out years ago and b) countless other players/administrators/club volunteers etc. coming forward with similar stories about their conduct given they have all been in the AFL system for years.

                                I'm not discounting the accusations; I just won't rush to judge without hearing all of the facts.
                                What I am saying is you can't have a judgement without both sides and if the Indigenous people do not participate then there is no chance of that. Secondly, the AFL lawyers should get the @@@@ out of this process if it is going to be independent. But they have not. Everything has to be reviewed by them before they either allow or reject evidence. That is crap. Where is the independence there?

                                The other thing is the terms of reference make it unsafe for the people making the claims. They have no protections in place. Only for the respondents, Clarko & Co. The lawyers for the girl who was allegedly forced to abort were very strong in their arguments that the Process is totally unfair and unsafe. They also tore stripes off the AFL for calling it an independent inquiry when the AFL has total control of the process.

                                If they want an independent inquiry why not let an independent tribunal run the process not an AFL appointed tribunal

                                Sent from my JAT-L29 using Tapatalk

                                Comment

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