Rd 9 vs Fremantle @SCG - Match Thread

[The Big Cat]

Brisbane has done everything in their power to give it a shake via their trades. So to the Cats and the Pies.

2023 will be an interesting season

To all these people who are saying we should have made trades over the off season, can just one please tell me who you would have traded out to get someone in? Surely none of the kids who had just taken us to a grand final? Everyone we tried to move had no interest shown in them and now they are playing in minor leagues somewhere. There were no free agents of any value in the mix and even if there were they would have been snapped up by the property developers around Geelong. Blokes like Tanner Bruhn and a couple of other deserters from the expansion teams were running home to mummy so there was no way they were coming to Sydney.

Can the know-alls please name any player we missed out on because of either the club's unwillingness to trade a youngster or the club's incompetence. And please name the players you would have cleared out to make room for one of these mystery players we missed out on.

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I am 100% serious. The real indignity it to put such a legend on the ground only to embarrass himself and become an object of pity. It's not right.

And kicking the dew off the grass at some God-forsaken back street oval in front of six people is not indignity?

[Dow]

To all these people who are saying we should have made trades over the off season, can just one please tell me who you would have traded out to get someone in? Surely none of the kids who had just taken us to a grand final? Everyone we tried to move had no interest shown in them and now they are playing in minor leagues somewhere. There were no free agents of any value in the mix and even if there were they would have been snapped up by the property developers around Geelong. Blokes like Tanner Bruhn and a couple of other deserters from the expansion teams were running home to mummy so there was no way they were coming to Sydney.

Can the know-alls please name any player we missed out on because of either the club's unwillingness to trade a youngster or the club's incompetence. And please name the players you would have cleared out to make room for one of these mystery players we missed out on.

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And kicking the dew off the grass at some God-forsaken back street oval in front of six people is not indignity?

Auntie is a big trading fan, but I don’t think there was anyone just speculating. The one for me was Stephen’s over Serong how did we get it so wrong Stephen’s just doesn’t even look like being a regular
Best 22

[Blood Fever]

To all these people who are saying we should have made trades over the off season, can just one please tell me who you would have traded out to get someone in? Surely none of the kids who had just taken us to a grand final? Everyone we tried to move had no interest shown in them and now they are playing in minor leagues somewhere. There were no free agents of any value in the mix and even if there were they would have been snapped up by the property developers around Geelong. Blokes like Tanner Bruhn and a couple of other deserters from the expansion teams were running home to mummy so there was no way they were coming to Sydney.

Can the know-alls please name any player we missed out on because of either the club's unwillingness to trade a youngster or the club's incompetence. And please name the players you would have cleared out to make room for one of these mystery players we missed out on.

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And kicking the dew off the grass at some God-forsaken back street oval in front of six people is not indignity?

Great post. Probably won't stop the ranting.

[MattW]

So happy with how Campbell is coming on. Saw a reasonable amount of their junior footy at a couple of points, and I think he has the potential to be up there with Gulden. That pair are going to give us a lot of joy over the years!

Thank goodness for the little wins of watching that draft group growing - otherwise it is feeling like a very long year indeed at the moment.

Agree with the several posts re Gulden, McDonald and Campbell. The performance of the 2020 draftees this year is the thick silver lining.

Gulden is a realistic chance to snare a Bob Skilton Medal in his third year.

[liz]

Agree with the several posts re Gulden, McDonald and Campbell. The performance of the 2020 draftees this year is the thick silver lining.

Gulden is a realistic chance to snare a Bob Skilton Medal in his third year.

If the season were to end now I can't think of who the competition would be. Warner has had some good games, but Errol hasn't been far behind in those. And he's been less consistent. Blakey has had some rippers but also some less good ones (though he's being asked to do defensive roles that aren't ideal for his attacking role).

I suspect it's mostly a case of him (Errol) staying fit.

It had occured to me earlier tonight that if he were to win he'd be the youngest since Micky O in 1998. But then I checked birthdates and realised he'll be several months younger.

While trying to find a listing of past winners by age, I stumbled across this (Young Swan upstages big names to claim Bob Skilton Medal), which reminded me that Parker won it at age 21 too.

I looked up a couple of likely suspects and found that Ron Clegg and Bob Skilton each won their first a couple of months before their 21st birthdays - both with November birthdays, Clegg just pipping Skilton in terms of being younger. Bill Williams won it very close to his 21st birthday (September birthday). I haven't done an exhaustive search to see if I can find anyone younger.

This is the kind of year where you could miss half a dozen games and still make the top ten of the B&F.

[Ludwig]

And he wouldn't be an "object of pity" (your words, not ones I agree with) not getting a kick with a VFL side completely incapable of kicking the ball forward with any purpose?

I am totally respectful and understanding of those who have a different opinion from my own. Although we are discussing a particular person, Lance Franklin, the dilemma posed is one faced in so many facets of life. Nearly everyone is challenged at times in life with what to do about people who were once competent in something, but are no longer so, especially if the person in question is loved or admired. This kind of dilemma can extend to more mundane matters.

For example, was it right for the government of Thailand to revoke my drivers license because I can't read road signs or tell the difference between a small dog and a brown paper bag, even though I had been an excellent driver in the not so distant past?

Or when should a senile, but popular, politician retire from high office?

Or should a doctor tell her patient that he will be just fine, nothing to worry about, when she knows her patient only has 2 months to live?

The Franklin booing incident evoked many opinions about how we should respect champions of our game. Or in general, how should high profile personalities move out of the limelight. When is it time to go? What should they do next? How do people with legacies to preserve move on in life?

Someone who comes to mind is Jimmy Carter, who didn't find it demeaning to do poll watching in a hot dusty town in Nicaragua, even though he once stood at the pinnacle of the political dung heap. And now he is most admired for all those little things he did when he moved out of the limelight of the U.S. presidency.

Franklin is a legend of the game. There's no shame at 36 to face the reality of no longer being capable of playing AFL football. His friends, family, coaches and teammates should help him face up to where he's at. I don't think they are doing him any favours.

I believe there would be a special kind of admiration for Lance if he said he wanted to help the Swans become a better team in a way he could contribute the most right now, which would be to help our beleaguered VFL side emerge from a very deep hole.

Usually it's better to be truthful and accepting of reality. It usually leads to the best outcome. In saying that, I understand that there are times when the truth is too painful and damaging and best not be told.

I wouldn't handle the situation the way Longmire is, but he knows the relationships better than I do and perhaps this is one of those times when it's better not to confront the reality before him and just let the clock run out.

Lance's bout with depression may be influential on how things are being handled by Longmire and the team around him. It's probably a whole lot more complicated and sensitive than any of us realise.

[Maltopia]

I imagine the club also wants to let Franklin depart on his terms this year to preserve the relationship and secure a father-daughter nomination and father-son nomination 15 and 17 years in the future

[gloveski]

To all these people who are saying we should have made trades over the off season, can just one please tell me who you would have traded out to get someone in? Surely none of the kids who had just taken us to a grand final? Everyone we tried to move had no interest shown in them and now they are playing in minor leagues somewhere. There were no free agents of any value in the mix and even if there were they would have been snapped up by the property developers around Geelong. Blokes like Tanner Bruhn and a couple of other deserters from the expansion teams were running home to mummy so there was no way they were coming to Sydney.

Can the know-alls please name any player we missed out on because of either the club's unwillingness to trade a youngster or the club's incompetence. And please name the players you would have cleared out to make room for one of these mystery players we missed out on.

- - - Updated - - -



And kicking the dew off the grass at some God-forsaken back street oval in front of six people is not indignity?

Well said


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[MattW]

I am totally respectful and understanding of those who have a different opinion from my own. Although we are discussing a particular person, Lance Franklin, the dilemma posed is one faced in so many facets of life. Nearly everyone is challenged at times in life with what to do about people who were once competent in something, but are no longer so, especially if the person in question is loved or admired. This kind of dilemma can extend to more mundane matters.

For example, was it right for the government of Thailand to revoke my drivers license because I can't read road signs or tell the difference between a small dog and a brown paper bag, even though I had been an excellent driver in the not so distant past?

Or when should a senile, but popular, politician retire from high office?

Or should a doctor tell her patient that he will be just fine, nothing to worry about, when she knows her patient only has 2 months to live?

The Franklin booing incident evoked many opinions about how we should respect champions of our game. Or in general, how should high profile personalities move out of the limelight. When is it time to go? What should they do next? How do people with legacies to preserve move on in life?

Someone who comes to mind is Jimmy Carter, who didn't find it demeaning to do poll watching in a hot dusty town in Nicaragua, even though he once stood at the pinnacle of the political dung heap. And now he is most admired for all those little things he did when he moved out of the limelight of the U.S. presidency.

Franklin is a legend of the game. There's no shame at 36 to face the reality of no longer being capable of playing AFL football. His friends, family, coaches and teammates should help him face up to where he's at. I don't think they are doing him any favours.

I believe there would be a special kind of admiration for Lance if he said he wanted to help the Swans become a better team in a way he could contribute the most right now, which would be to help our beleaguered VFL side emerge from a very deep hole.

Usually it's better to be truthful and accepting of reality. It usually leads to the best outcome. In saying that, I understand that there are times when the truth is too painful and damaging and best not be told.

I wouldn't handle the situation the way Longmire is, but he knows the relationships better than I do and perhaps this is one of those times when it's better not to confront the reality before him and just let the clock run out.

Lance's bout with depression may be influential on how things are being handled by Longmire and the team around him. It's probably a whole lot more complicated and sensitive than any of us realise.

Great post, Ludwig. Thank you for it.

The sight of Buddy slapping the ground in frustration when he was tackled after playing on after taking a mark just outside the goal square made me very sad.

It was a mistake for Buddy to play on this year. But I can't blame him for taking another year and it was understandable that the club acquiesced.

It's painful for all watching him play on like this, but i mostly feel sad for him.

Options: 1) plays the year out; 2) plays vfl; 3)] retires immediately.

Option 3) actually seems the most humane, as the experience seems so painful at the moment. But he won't want to leave (potentially be perceived as quitting) the team in a state and himself playing at this level.

Re option 2), he isn't playing at an AFL standard, but we have no other tall forwards, particularly with Logan now down.

The only option I can think of is bringing in a second ruck, and have a genuine ruckman play McLean's role and have McLean play only as a forward. I'm not convinced that's an obviously better option. (Although, I think we stuffed the selection yesterday but not playing McAndrew to help Hickey.)

And, while I understand the mentoring point, it's hard to see Lance's mental health being enhanced by playing vfl. That's a key reason why I think 1) is the best option.

But given 1) won't happen, I think we just need to ride it out, support him, and hope it gets better.

All the best to you Ludwig.

[MattW]

If the season were to end now I can't think of who the competition would be. Warner has had some good games, but Errol hasn't been far behind in those. And he's been less consistent. Blakey has had some rippers but also some less good ones (though he's being asked to do defensive roles that aren't ideal for his attacking role).

I suspect it's mostly a case of him (Errol) staying fit.

It had occured to me earlier tonight that if he were to win he'd be the youngest since Micky O in 1998. But then I checked birthdates and realised he'll be several months younger.

While trying to find a listing of past winners by age, I stumbled across this (Young Swan upstages big names to claim Bob Skilton Medal), which reminded me that Parker won it at age 21 too.

I looked up a couple of likely suspects and found that Ron Clegg and Bob Skilton each won their first a couple of months before their 21st birthdays - both with November birthdays, Clegg just pipping Skilton in terms of being younger. Bill Williams won it very close to his 21st birthday (September birthday). I haven't done an exhaustive search to see if I can find anyone younger.

This is the kind of year where you could miss half a dozen games and still make the top ten of the B&F.

Thanks liz.

I also had Parker in mind, but didn't have the effort in me to research. If Gulden wins this year, he'll be nine months younger than Parker was. Parker had played 82 games; the maximum Errol will have played is 65.

Also, Errol, like Luke, is destined to be captain.

[Kafka's Ghost]

Thanks liz.

I also had Parker in mind, but didn't have the effort in me to research. If Gulden wins this year, he'll be nine months younger than Parker was. Parker had played 82 games; the maximum Errol will have played is 65.

Also, Errol, like Luke, is destined to be captain.

Totally agree about Errol being a club captain. In his first game against the Lions he was already directing traffic.


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[troyjones2525]

There was another Campbell moment - second half, but my mind has blanked out a bit exactly when; we were kicking to the Randwick end so it must have been the third quarter - when he swooped on a ball at pace, picked it up clean as you like, and kept on with his run.

And I want to give a shout out to McDonald for his goal. He looked outnumbered and no chance of contesting at half-forward but managed to stop his Freo opponents marking. Then he ran hard forward to be the recipient of the very next kick (maybe the only good kick Bud had all day). Not sure if he was paid the mark or got a free - there were lots of bodies in the next pack - but it was an impressive few moments from Logan. Desperately hope that he's not badly injured, because watching him and Campbell improve week by week is the one thing that's been engaging me this season. (Their draft partner Errol is way beyond gradual, week-by-week improvement.)

I thought Francis was OK today. He could show the rest of the team a thing or two about taking a contested mark (mostly watch the ball, then move towards it - nothing overly complicated). He's not a key defender but could have a place in a defence that is more confident, better organised, and with some proper tall defenders.

I remember that Campbell play Liz, it was just after Errol had a similar clean pick up and thought, geez these 2 boys are really starting to step it up here!

We drafted him as a mid, well the draft experts saw him as one anyway, so I hope we give him some real time in there to see what he can do this year, because if he goes as well as we all hope, we will be in a very good place the next few years!

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[troyjones2525]

Caleb Serong (33 disposals, eight clearances) led the way and maybe made the Freeo fans more than happy about their draft pick choice

ohh well

windows sometimes come and go

Brisbane has done everything in their power to give it a shake via their trades. So to the Cats and the Pies.

2023 will be an interesting season

The really annoying thing about that is that Serong was a Swans supporter before being drafted so probably would have loved to be selected by us...

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[troyjones2525]

It breaks my heart to see Buddy playing this way. I don't see any shame in playing in the VFL where he could provide the on field leadership we so desperately need. Both our AFL and VFL sides would benefit. Buddy should take these last few months of his playing career to become a teacher of young footballers. It will do far more for his legacy than kicking a few more goals to move up the goal kicking ladder.

No way Buddy plays VFL. They would fake an injury before dropping him.

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[Kafka's Ghost]

No way Buddy plays VFL. They would fake an injury before dropping him.

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I think he’s one of the blokes playing injured. He and Heeney are both playing under duress, it’s pretty clear.


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