Rnd 18 - vs Bulldogs at SCG, 7:20 PM, Thursday 13 July 2023

[waswan]

Or use him as the Lloyd replacement, no need to hit a target just kick it long down the line or kick into space....he would be kicking it 20m longer

[liz]

Or use him as the Lloyd replacement, no need to hit a target just kick it long down the line or kick into space....he would be kicking it 20m longer

That's not the Swans' game plan - not the one we have when we're playing well. What they try to do is pinpoint passes from around CHB (and sometimes from a deeper position) into the middle, run and carry for a bit, and then kick forward. It's frustrating enough that they kick long into the forward line as much as they do, rather than try to carry it a bit further and then find a short to medium target. If we resorted to just kicking long from further back it would be unwatchable. Especially as we're not particularly strong overhead in the midfield. Not compared to other teams.

I think the issue with Stephens and his kicking is more around decision making than actual execution. At VFL level, where's he's mostly played in heavy traffic, he often tries to kick before he's created space for himself and has the kick smothered. Or when he does find space (which he's good at using his pace to do), he kicks while he's still off balance. And without thinking of a target. His short kicking - when he has a target to aim at - has been much better in the VFL this year than it was during his stint there last season where he frequently misjudged the depth of the kick.

If Sheldrick's ankle problem that he incurred last week means he's not right to play this week, I'd be quite happy to see them trial Stephens this week in the senior team, to be used as a part of the onball rotation. He does have the pace to create space in a way we don't really have while Chad is out. I think he's quicker than Chad, though he lacks the power through his legs to barge through tackles the way that Chad can. Right now, I'd back his defensive efforts (tackling) over Chad's too. It's one thing he's been consistently doing well in the VFL, and something Chad picks and chooses when to do.

I'm not advocating we would pick him instead of Chad, but Chad's not available this week. We don't know if he'll be available next week. With the season effectively over from a finals perspective, I do think it would be a chance to try a few things.

I do believe there is a good AFL player within Stephens, trying to emerge. He's almost certainly the most athletically gifted player we have. I think only Errol has the physical and mental endurance to run, run, run in the way I think Stephens can. And he's a little quicker than Errol.

I have a hunch - and maybe I'm way off base - that Stephens sees himself as, or wants to be, an inside mid rather than a specialist wingman. And the prolonged spell in the midfield at VFL level, with only one interruption to play as the senior sub - has almost been a deal between Stephens and the coaches to prove that he can play there.

I still reckon his best chance of a prolonged AFL career, whether at the Swans or elsewhere, will prove to be as a predominantly outside player. Or if he really wants to be an onballer, he needs to really work on his creative handball craft and how to use that more often in traffic rather than try to kick all the time. But he has a team mate - in Errol - who should act as a model of how not to be defined or limited by the role. Sometimes Errol is part of the centre bounce rotations, some games he rarely attends them. Sometimes he keeps his width even when it puts him in an unusable position, sometimes he goes ball chasing a bit more. But you never get a feeling that he's constrained by his starting position. He gets to contests and he gets to space regardless. I don't see any reason why Stephens can't achieve a similar balance. Sure, he's never going to have the vision or kicking skills of Errol. But he is a little quicker and a bit taller, which he should be able to use to his advantage. And in any case, even if he's not quite up to the level that Errol's trajectory suggests, that's no disgrace. It doesn't mean he can't be a valuable and effective contributor.

[Blood Fever]

You choose some of your posts and put them together in a book, perhaps titled, 'Reflectioms of a Swan tragic'. Could be sold in the Swans shop. High quality writing. I'm serious.

[Blood Fever]

* should choose

[Ludwig]

Great post, Liz, and I agree with everything. What has made me lose confidence in Stevens this year is the scant progress he's made with his decision making, i.e. his disposal in general. You would think the coaches would be working with him on this the past 4 seasons. Yet to still be in this position, where he can't find a spot in the side, has been discouraging.

I am all for experimenting with Stevens if he's ready, given that we are out of the race this year. I wouldn't mind trying Gould as a forward at AFL level either.

Sheldrick wasn't on the injury list, so I guess his ankle is okay. Maybe.

[gloveski]

A quote from Longmire was that we have lead 11 of 16 games at 3qtr time .
All year we simply have not run out games , the Port game can be blamed on injuries but not the rest .
Many are debating on if Stephens should play or not . He is our best endurance runner . The talk is that we already have enough midfielders but if our current rotation are not running out games I think Stephens might as well be tried . What have we got to loose .


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[Kafka's Ghost]

That's not the Swans' game plan - not the one we have when we're playing well. What they try to do is pinpoint passes from around CHB (and sometimes from a deeper position) into the middle, run and carry for a bit, and then kick forward. It's frustrating enough that they kick long into the forward line as much as they do, rather than try to carry it a bit further and then find a short to medium target. If we resorted to just kicking long from further back it would be unwatchable. Especially as we're not particularly strong overhead in the midfield. Not compared to other teams.

I think the issue with Stephens and his kicking is more around decision making than actual execution. At VFL level, where's he's mostly played in heavy traffic, he often tries to kick before he's created space for himself and has the kick smothered. Or when he does find space (which he's good at using his pace to do), he kicks while he's still off balance. And without thinking of a target. His short kicking - when he has a target to aim at - has been much better in the VFL this year than it was during his stint there last season where he frequently misjudged the depth of the kick.

If Sheldrick's ankle problem that he incurred last week means he's not right to play this week, I'd be quite happy to see them trial Stephens this week in the senior team, to be used as a part of the onball rotation. He does have the pace to create space in a way we don't really have while Chad is out. I think he's quicker than Chad, though he lacks the power through his legs to barge through tackles the way that Chad can. Right now, I'd back his defensive efforts (tackling) over Chad's too. It's one thing he's been consistently doing well in the VFL, and something Chad picks and chooses when to do.

I'm not advocating we would pick him instead of Chad, but Chad's not available this week. We don't know if he'll be available next week. With the season effectively over from a finals perspective, I do think it would be a chance to try a few things.

I do believe there is a good AFL player within Stephens, trying to emerge. He's almost certainly the most athletically gifted player we have. I think only Errol has the physical and mental endurance to run, run, run in the way I think Stephens can. And he's a little quicker than Errol.

I have a hunch - and maybe I'm way off base - that Stephens sees himself as, or wants to be, an inside mid rather than a specialist wingman. And the prolonged spell in the midfield at VFL level, with only one interruption to play as the senior sub - has almost been a deal between Stephens and the coaches to prove that he can play there.

I still reckon his best chance of a prolonged AFL career, whether at the Swans or elsewhere, will prove to be as a predominantly outside player. Or if he really wants to be an onballer, he needs to really work on his creative handball craft and how to use that more often in traffic rather than try to kick all the time. But he has a team mate - in Errol - who should act as a model of how not to be defined or limited by the role. Sometimes Errol is part of the centre bounce rotations, some games he rarely attends them. Sometimes he keeps his width even when it puts him in an unusable position, sometimes he goes ball chasing a bit more. But you never get a feeling that he's constrained by his starting position. He gets to contests and he gets to space regardless. I don't see any reason why Stephens can't achieve a similar balance. Sure, he's never going to have the vision or kicking skills of Errol. But he is a little quicker and a bit taller, which he should be able to use to his advantage. And in any case, even if he's not quite up to the level that Errol's trajectory suggests, that's no disgrace. It doesn't mean he can't be a valuable and effective contributor.

Great post.


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[neilfws]

Injury updates. Warner, Sheldrick not available this week. Sounds like Amartey is. Ladhams getting closer.

Injury Update: Warner ruled out of Round 18 clash

[liz]

So at least two spots available for smaller guys. I doubt Amartey will replace Lloyd or Sheldrick. If he comes in it will be at the expense of another tall forward.

And will they acknowledge that Francis as sub last week unbalanced the side once Lloyd went off? Or will they still want insurance against a Dogs’ forward line with Naughton and Ugle-Hagan? If it’s the former, that’s a third spot for a smaller guy.

Wicks? Stephens? Clarke? Corey?

[Ludwig]

The Dogs will play a very tall 3rd tall in either Lobb or Darcy. And Tim English will also be a tough matchup, especially with Hickey's poor current form. More likely than not, we will go in undersized this week.

I wonder if Roberts has done enough to get in the side this week. Or if we think HHK has done enough to be the sub.

If we are to give Stephens a go in the midfield, this would be the week to do it. I would be happy with that, despite my negativity towards Stephens. The timing is just right for a do or die shot.

[caj23]

And will they acknowledge that Francis as sub last week unbalanced the side once Lloyd went off? Or will they still want insurance against a Dogs’ forward line with Naughton and Ugle-Hagan? If it’s the former, that’s a third spot for a smaller guy.

Wicks? Stephens? Clarke? Corey?

Our coaching staff aren’t exactly fast learners given that’s the second time Francis has been sub this season so who knows? But if the rationale is that they don’t trust the guys they select in the 22 to do their job, then it’s pretty ordinary

[troyjones2525]

The problem I have with this, as well as the calls for adding a big bodied midfielder to our list, is that I can't see how to fit them into our side.

I think Sheldrick, Rowbottom and Parker are all best suited as inside mids attending the bulk of CBs. Warner is also important as a break away threat from the midfield. Mills is versatile, but is best suited to the midfield. Papley and Gulden as both grunt and pace. And Heeney does a good job on the inside. Roberts is also looking best suited as an inside mid.

Dylan needs to demonstrate that he can use the ball more effectively before playing a position where he gets more opportunities to win possession. He has yet to show that ability at any level, despite seemingly having the talent to do so. It's up to the coaches and Dylan to work that out.

In any case, it's a zero sum game. I Dylan goes into the midfield, the one of the current regulars has to go out. I can't see how Dylan passes any of the 8 players named above, at least not on current form.

I think your last point is something we need to look at as being a possibility. Maybe some of the guys in there are not the answer going forward and could be replaced or surpassed by others that we either recruit or already have on our list?

Clearly our clearances and contested possessions are an issue, particularly in the Centre Bounce's, and have been for quite a while, so maybe it's time to try a few other options for the remainder of this year considering its highly unlikely we will play finals?

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[KSAS]

Ch 7 news reporting Tom Hickey had been dropped & Amartey in. No official teams on website yet & not sure of full changes for Sheldrick and Lloyd.

[ugg]

It’s Corey Amartey and Wicks for Sheldrick Lloyd and Hickey

In a way it makes sense as English is a very mobile ruck and Hickey wouldn’t have been able to keep up with him. Amartey (assuming he is first ruck and not McLean) can match him around the ground

[Mark26]

It’s Corey Amartey and Wicks for Sheldrick Lloyd and Hickey

In a way it makes sense as English is a very mobile ruck and Hickey wouldn’t have been able to keep up with him. Amartey (assuming he is first ruck and not McLean) can match him around the ground

I don't mind those changes. All three will compete. I thought Stephens might get the nod, but ...